If The Kingdom isn't here yet then what is JESUS CHRIST a King of?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jan 21, 2021
2,852
318
83
The regeneration of Matthew 19:28 will not take place until His Second Coming, which the Scripture speaks of in the Gospels, the Apostles and the Prophets.

You cannot have a regeneration until His Coming and satan is bound and locked up = Revelation 20:3

And he threw him/satan into the Abyss, shut it, and sealed it over him,
so that he could not deceive the nations until the thousand years were complete.


Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge - Rev 20:4
fulfillment of Matthew 19:28
You are not getting what you just admitted to. i agree with what you just said here ...but it ruins JESUS sitting in a Throne on earth for a thousand years prior.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,046
113
You are not getting what you just admitted to. i agree with what you just said here ...but it ruins JESUS sitting in a Throne on earth for a thousand years prior.
Where are you getting this "thousand years prior" from???
 
Jan 21, 2021
2,852
318
83
Where are you getting this "thousand years prior" from???
You want there to be a Millennium Reign with JESUS on earth for a thousand years and then satan is loosed. You claim the Reign is after His Return ....no?
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,046
113
You want there to be a Millennium Reign with JESUS on earth for a thousand years and then satan is loosed. You claim the Reign is after is Return ....no?
All i want is to make sure i am submitted unto God and protected from the 'evil one'.

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him. Prov 30:5

Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar. Prov 30:6

We all have a choice to make - verse 5 or verse 6

verse 5 is Grace and Protection

verse 6 is error from the evil one
 
Jan 21, 2021
2,852
318
83
The point of all this it to tell people to stop using excuses like a mark of the beast or a third physical temple to wait to GET RIGHT WITH GOD.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,642
3,533
113
Falsehood = 1 Peter 2:9 "is concerning the nation of Israel at the return of Christ."

1 Peter 2:9 is speaking of the Body of Christ right now

But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, to proclaim the virtues of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light. Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

Grace and peace to you from Him who is and was and is to come, and from the seven Spirits before His throne, and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
To Him who loves us and has released us from our sins by His blood, who has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father—to Him be the glory and power forever and ever! Amen. Rev 1:4-6
We'll just have to disagree. I believe 1 Peter is clearly to the nation of Israel. During Christ's earthly ministry, that generation was a generation of vipers, an untoward generation. But at the return of the Jewish Messiah, it will be for a chosen generation.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,046
113
We'll just have to disagree. I believe 1 Peter is clearly to the nation of Israel. During Christ's earthly ministry, that generation was a generation of vipers, an untoward generation. But at the return of the Jewish Messiah, it will be for a chosen generation.
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:
Grace to you and peace be multiplied.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

This is written to the elect of God = the Body of Christ.
Not to Jews according to the flesh.

Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture,

Do not tresspass against the Scripture as the serpent did in the Garden.

Any move to separate Jew from Gentile in Christ is sin and antichrist.

LISTEN to the APOSTLE PETER

Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter.
7And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8So God, who knows the heart, [a]acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”

12Then all the multitude kept silent and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring how many miracles and wonders God had worked through them among the Gentiles. 13And after they had become silent, James answered, saying, “Men and brethren, listen to me: 14Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name. 15And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written:

16‘After this I will return
And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down;
I will rebuild its ruins,
And I will set it up;
17So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name,
Says the Lord who does all these things.’


LISTEN to GOD

Praise the Lord!
For it is good to sing praises to our God;
For it is pleasant, and praise is beautiful.

2The Lord builds up Jerusalem;
He gathers together the outcasts of Israel.

3He heals the brokenhearted
And binds up their wounds.
4He counts the number of the stars;
He calls them all by name.
5Great is our Lord, and mighty in power;
His understanding is infinite.
6The Lord lifts up the humble;
He casts the wicked down to the ground.

LISTEN TO PAUL

I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, 2that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. 3For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, 4who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; 5of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.

6But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” 8That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. 9For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.”
 
Jan 21, 2021
2,852
318
83
Does Matthew 19:28
"in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory,"
match with Revelation 20:4
"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them"
or Revelation 20:11
"And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away"?


What is the purpose of these multiple thrones in 20:4? Why does it say "judgment was given unto them"?
Are their mini judgments happening during our physical lives?

Is this related?

Ephesians 2:4-8
But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; )
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,876
1,254
113
The debate has been ended with this anyways:

Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

That disproves Amill since there is no judging in the eternity. That is obviously a reference to the thousand years.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,876
1,254
113
So, we are not reigning now because satan can still whisper in your ear? satan is bound from deceiving the nations ...not individuals.

Another non-sensical thing said by an Amill. The nations are individuals. Satan will not be able to deceive any person of those nations which proves he is not bound and imprisoned now.
 
Jan 21, 2021
2,852
318
83
Another non-sensical thing said by an Amill. The nations are individuals. Satan will not be able to deceive any person of those nations which proves he is not bound and imprisoned now.
satan is bound, doesn't mean the fallen angels under him are.

also, please look my post above yours (#408).
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,876
1,254
113
satan is bound, doesn't mean the fallen angels under him are.

Satan is bound and imprisoned. Amill never talks about that part because they need a satan who can still roam around and deceive people which goes against what the bible says. The fallen angels aren't mentioned at all at a certain point in Revelation. They aren't mentioned being cast into the LOF but we know they shall be. It's logical that God wants the nations to not be deceived by satan that satan sending angels to deceive would also not be allowed. So, it is for sure the angels are imprisoned with satan and will be cast into the LOF when satan is.

Do not listen to Amill when it claims satan is still able to deceive people when he is imprisoned. He cannot by any means deceive anyone during that time. Only when he is released from that does God allow him to deceive a final time.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,876
1,254
113
Does Matthew 19:28
"in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory,"
match with Revelation 20:4
"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them"
or Revelation 20:11
"And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away"?


What is the purpose of these multiple thrones in 20:4? Why does it say "judgment was given unto them"?
Are their mini judgments happening during our physical lives?
"mini judgments" lol

That is no mini judgment. 20:4 is the judgement of the saints, the same time the dead are resurrected to immortality and will rule over the mortal nations. 20:4 is set at the timeframe of the second coming not at the time we are living our mortal lives and certainly nothing in the text suggest many mini judgments over time. Amill simply re-writes the bible to make up imaginary things.
 
Jan 21, 2021
2,852
318
83
JESUS is already at the Great White Throne Reigning now.

Revelation 3:21
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
 
Jan 21, 2021
2,852
318
83
"mini judgments" lol

That is no mini judgment. 20:4 is the judgement of the saints, the same time the dead are resurrected to immortality and will rule over the mortal nations. 20:4 is set at the timeframe of the second coming not at the time we are living our mortal lives and certainly nothing in the text suggest many mini judgments over time. Amill simply re-writes the bible to make up imaginary things.
Why does it say "judgment was given unto them"?

Is it saying they were judged or they that they dish out judgment? Is judgment and reigning the same thing?
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,876
1,254
113
JESUS is already at the Great White Throne Reigning now.

A reign is not allowing satan and evil to reign. Jesus reigns in heaven but is not reigning here because when he does that, evil will be stopped. There won't be wars, murders, rapes etc etc when Jesus reigns the Earth. No one is fooled by Amills claims of the Earth being reigned by Christ and saints. The world a mess of wickedness and evil and it gets worse day by day.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,876
1,254
113
Why does it say "judgment was given unto them"?

Is it saying they were judged or they that they dish out judgment?
They can dish out judgment same as here:

Dan_7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.


Is judgment and reigning the same thing?
No. Go find a dictionary.
 
Jan 21, 2021
2,852
318
83
They can dish out judgment same as here:

Dan_7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

i think it becomes both, they get Judged and then become Judges later ...after satan is loosed.


Luke 22:29-30
And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,876
1,254
113
1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
Everyone already understands the saints are judged before the unsaved are. The saints are judged to immortal life at the second coming, then judgement is given to them over the unsaved which is the thousand years also found here:

Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

That is the second coming. Everything we read of next comes after the second coming:

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

After "the end" comes, there is given power over the nations to those that are overcomers which naturally includes those who "are alive and remain" at the second coming. They will be given power over the nations after Christ has returned not before it.

Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

After the second coming and after "the end" will the overcomers be given power over the nations, ruling them with a rod of iron. That proves the rod of iron rule over the nations for a thousand years does not even start until Christ has returned and has given overcomers this power to rule over the nations.



No surprise that this matches what is found in the second coming passage in Revelation 19:

Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Again we find the nations being ruled (future tense verb) by a rod of iron AFTER the second coming exactly as Premill teaches. If everyone is killed, who is going to be ruled over by the rod of iron in both passages? Obviously Amil's "global slaughter" theology is false.
 
Jan 21, 2021
2,852
318
83
Satan is bound and imprisoned. Amill never talks about that part because they need a satan who can still roam around and deceive people which goes against what the bible says. The fallen angels aren't mentioned at all at a certain point in Revelation. They aren't mentioned being cast into the LOF but we know they shall be. It's logical that God wants the nations to not be deceived by satan that satan sending angels to deceive would also not be allowed. So, it is for sure the angels are imprisoned with satan and will be cast into the LOF when satan is.

Do not listen to Amill when it claims satan is still able to deceive people when he is imprisoned. He cannot by any means deceive anyone during that time. Only when he is released from that does God allow him to deceive a final time.
so fallen angels magically stop being evil?