If .... then ....

[OldOrthodoxChristian]

If kissing photos (pictures) of your mother and father, and your beloved family members is good, true, and right, then kissing pictures (icons) of God's (Christ's) beloved family members: His Mother, the Virgin Mary, His Saints, Peter, Paul, Andrew, John, James, etc., and His holy Angels, Michael, Gabriel, etc. must be good, true, and right. The logic is unshakable and true.
PS That would include kissing pictures of Christ.
In Erie Scott R. Harrington January 24, 2012 AD
(new calendar)

 

[Brandon777]

I'm sorry, but what??? What is going on? I've never heard of those pictures or if they're right or wrong. Why would they be wrong, and who are they kissing. I'm so confused...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

most normal people -don't- kiss photos of relatives...

and -nobody- bows down or burns incense to photos of relatives...except maybe pagan ancestor worshippers...

anyway the icons are not photos...they are probably not even accurate depictions...

 

[Carmy]

I totally disagree. I don't kiss pictures of my family. I have them so that I can remember the earlier years and what they looked like....for example my daughter's baby pictures...but I don't kiss them or worship them. The bible says this:
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God
However, I do not see any place in the bible that tells me to honor or kiss mary for giving birth to Jesus. In both Matt. and Mark, Jesus asked who is my mother and my brethren? Then he said:
Mat 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Jesus wasn't putting Mary on a pedistal so I don't think we should either. Although Jesus loved and respected his mother, when she went to talk with him, he treated her just like he treated others that were following God's ways also. I would think that if we were meant to worship her or kiss her clothing, then Jesus would have also made a point to cause her to stand out in the crowd and be glorified in front of the people. I feel this shows me that Mary was just another woman in the bible. I am curious though, do you have scriptures that back up your view that we are suppose to idolize her? I have seen posts were people say they are not idolizing Mary but when I look up the definition, I find this:

Definition of IDOLIZE. transitive verb: to worship as a god; broadly: to love or admire to excess <the common people whom he so idolized

This uses the words to love or admire to excess and although I don't mean any disrespect to what you believe, it appears to me that Mary is admired to the excess...especially if people are praying to her instead of God and kissing her clothing or pictures.

 

[CanadaNZ]

Lol Scott I think they missed the sarcasm here

 

[Laodicea]

If kissing photos (pictures) of your mother and father, and your beloved family members is good, true, and right, then kissing pictures (icons) of God's (Christ's) beloved family members: His Mother, the Virgin Mary, His Saints, Peter, Paul, Andrew, John, James, etc., and His holy Angels, Michael, Gabriel, etc. must be good, true, and right. The logic is unshakable and true.
PS That would include kissing pictures of Christ.
In Erie Scott R. Harrington January 24, 2012 AD
(new calendar)

Trying to use human logic to interpret the word of God? I do not kiss photos either

 

[OldOrthodoxChristian]

Trying to use human logic to interpret the word of God? I do not kiss photos either

Calvinists do use human logic to interpret (wrongly) the word of God. They also are not consistent. They ban Orthodox icons, then they make paintings and statues of John Calvin and other Reformers (Reformed Calvinists).
God commanded some images to be made in the OT. Like the carved cherubim in the Ark of the Covenant. These were a part of OT worship. So not all images to be respected are banned by God. Why wouldn't it be considered normal to kiss photos of your relatives? Modern evangelicals do practice idolatry. They are obsessed with making money. Hardly something that Orthodox Christians who venerate icons are doing.
Not that there are no rich Russians. There are.
Protestants do revere the physical Bible. They hold it up and point to it. I've seen John Hagee do this on television? Why does he do that? Does the Bible tell us to do that with the Bible? If it is okay to respect the Bible (and it is), then it's okay to respect the icons of Christ and the Saints. It's not worship. It's veneration. Remember what I said about the commandment of God to honor thy father and thy mother. Honoring certain people isn't worshipping them, or lessening our sole worship of God Himself alone.
Protestants, many of them, have their own images or icons. I have seen this in non-Orthodox churches.

 

[OldOrthodoxChristian]

I totally disagree. I don't kiss pictures of my family. I have them so that I can remember the earlier years and what they looked like....for example my daughter's baby pictures...but I don't kiss them or worship them. The bible says this:
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God
However, I do not see any place in the bible that tells me to honor or kiss mary for giving birth to Jesus. In both Matt. and Mark, Jesus asked who is my mother and my brethren? Then he said:
Mat 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Jesus wasn't putting Mary on a pedistal so I don't think we should either. Although Jesus loved and respected his mother, when she went to talk with him, he treated her just like he treated others that were following God's ways also. I would think that if we were meant to worship her or kiss her clothing, then Jesus would have also made a point to cause her to stand out in the crowd and be glorified in front of the people. I feel this shows me that Mary was just another woman in the bible. I am curious though, do you have scriptures that back up your view that we are suppose to idolize her? I have seen posts were people say they are not idolizing Mary but when I look up the definition, I find this:

Definition of IDOLIZE. transitive verb: to worship as a god; broadly: to love or admire to excess <the common people whom he so idolized

This uses the words to love or admire to excess and although I don't mean any disrespect to what you believe, it appears to me that Mary is admired to the excess...especially if people are praying to her instead of God and kissing her clothing or pictures.

Dear friend: That's a wrong way to approach the Bible and what it means. It's all PRIVATE OPINION AND EMOTION. Not OBJECTIVE TRUTH.
We go by "the faith once delivered unto the saints" (Jude 3), not our feelings on what the Bible says or means or can say or mean. That's a form of IDOLATRY. EGOCENTRISM. NARCISSISM. Drawing ONESELF into the text of the Bible. God says, "Your thoughts are not My thoughts, and your ways are not My ways."
God save us. Amen. In Erie Scott Harrington
PS In some forms of Protestantism, Mary is disrespected and belittled to excess. Especially in people who twist the Scriptures about her, or say she's an ordinary woman. That's not true. We respect her because it's part of holding Christ as God. If she is not the Mother of God the Son, then Christ is not God the Son.

 

[Carmy]

Thanks Scott. Im glad your real name isn't as long as your screen name...it's quicker to type.

When I say I feel....I don't mean that as Idolatry or egocentrism. I say that because we all interpret the bible differently and this is how I interpret that scripture. Every one of us, when we read the bible, interpret according to our human thinking and spiritual understanding also. If we all had and exact understanding on what the scriptures are saying, then we wouldn't have different religions/beliefs today. Since I don't see any clean text about Mary being built up but I do see text in the bible that shows Mary was never built up by Jesus or anyone else, I see that as an example set before us that my focus should be on God and Jesus and not on Mary. If Im right, I think you are saying that you don't idolize Mary you are just holding her in high esteem for being the virgin mother of Jesus. Although, I still don't understand why this is, I still disagree with you about Mary being built up in any way. I am thankful for your posts though and to read you comments because it causes me to look up scriptures, reflect on this subject and read your posts about why you believe as you do.

I hope this post makes sense. I guess Im not awake yet because I can't seem to find the right words I want to use. lol

 

[OldOrthodoxChristian]

Thanks Scott. Im glad your real name isn't as long as your screen name...it's quicker to type.

When I say I feel....I don't mean that as Idolatry or egocentrism. I say that because we all interpret the bible differently and this is how I interpret that scripture. Every one of us, when we read the bible, interpret according to our human thinking and spiritual understanding also. If we all had and exact understanding on what the scriptures are saying, then we wouldn't have different religions/beliefs today. Since I don't see any clean text about Mary being built up but I do see text in the bible that shows Mary was never built up by Jesus or anyone else, I see that as an example set before us that my focus should be on God and Jesus and not on Mary. If Im right, I think you are saying that you don't idolize Mary you are just holding her in high esteem for being the virgin mother of Jesus. Although, I still don't understand why this is, I still disagree with you about Mary being built up in any way. I am thankful for your posts though and to read you comments because it causes me to look up scriptures, reflect on this subject and read your posts about why you believe as you do.

I hope this post makes sense. I guess Im not awake yet because I can't seem to find the right words I want to use. lo

l

How we should view Mary is in Luke 1:43-56! Okay?