If we are going to keep the SABBATH the 7th day, in HEAVEN, Why are not people keeping it now ???

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UnitedWithChrist

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EXOD.34
[28] And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables THE WORDS OF THE COVENANT, THE TEN COMMANDMENTS.

DEUT.4
[13] And he declared unto you HIS COVENANT, which he commanded you to perform, EVEN TEN COMMANDMENTS; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Looks like a separate covenant to me
What makes you think it's a separate covenant?

The Ten Commandments are a summary of the law. You can read the rest of the law, and see that it is further elaboration on the law, defining specific judgments relating to breaking the law.

There are some ceremonial and civic issues mentioned as well, but the primary content is an expansion upon the Ten Commandments.

The one thing I could never understand, though, is how the SDA person can use the Prophets to "prove" Sabbathkeeping, but ignore the other elements mentioned...the festivals, new moons, animal sacrifices and Levitical priesthood. He lives in bizarro world where he can parse Scriptures like that to use them as proof texts :)

And, by the way, most Judaizers don't follow their theology anyways...if they claim the Ten Commandments are separate from the "Book of the Covenant", invariably they will throw the clean meat laws in, as required observances. So, they don't even follow their own theology and their own hermeneutic.

And, if they are a SDA, they know their church promotes the murder of babies in the womb besides that. They perform these abortions in their health care facilities.

Is it a mere opinion that abortion is murder?

What do you think?

Of course, I don't know that you are a SDA....maybe you don't belong to this child sacrificing cult. I hope not, as it's the ultimate act of depravity imho.
 

Wall

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Is it a mere opinion that abortion is murder?

What do you think?
Jeremiah 2:34 (KJV)
34 Also in thy skirts is found the blood of the souls of the poor innocents: I have not found it by secret search, but upon all these.
 

lightbearer

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unitedwithchrist is very beautifully dismantling the judeaizer lies.


you guys would do well to not interact with him ( or her), you are being made to look silly.
To think I was hoping you had posted something of value. Oh well...
 

Wall

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Gonna get hot

LUKE 3 [16] John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:[17] Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but THE CHAFF HE WILL BURN WITH FIRE UNQUENCHABLE.

MATTHEW 3 [11] I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: HE SHALL BAPTIZE YOU WITH THE HOLY GHOST, and with fire:[12] Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; BUT HE WILL BURN UP THE CHAFF WITH UNQUENCHABLE FIRE.

So who are the chaff? The people that Jesus will burn up

LUKE 4 [34] Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; THE HOLY ONE of God.
ACTS 2 [25] For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:[26] Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:[27] Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer THINE HOLY ONE to see corruption.

Jesus surely is the Holy One

ISAIAH 5 [24] Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and THE FLAME CONSUMETH THE CHAFF, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: BECAUSE THEY HAVE CAST AWAY THE LAW OF THE LORD OF HOSTS, and despised the word of THE HOLY ONE of Israel.

Theres the people Jesus {the Holy One} will burn. Those who believe they can cast away His law.
 

UnitedWithChrist

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Jeremiah 2:34 (KJV)
34 Also in thy skirts is found the blood of the souls of the poor innocents: I have not found it by secret search, but upon all these.
Jeremiah 2:34 34 Also on your skirts is found
the lifeblood of the guiltless poor;
you did not find them breaking in.
Yet in spite of all these things
(ESV Strong's)

I'm ok with applying this to abortionists, though :)
 

UnitedWithChrist

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Gonna get hot

LUKE 3 [16] John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:[17] Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but THE CHAFF HE WILL BURN WITH FIRE UNQUENCHABLE.

MATTHEW 3 [11] I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: HE SHALL BAPTIZE YOU WITH THE HOLY GHOST, and with fire:[12] Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; BUT HE WILL BURN UP THE CHAFF WITH UNQUENCHABLE FIRE.

So who are the chaff? The people that Jesus will burn up

LUKE 4 [34] Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; THE HOLY ONE of God.
ACTS 2 [25] For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:[26] Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:[27] Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer THINE HOLY ONE to see corruption.

Jesus surely is the Holy One

ISAIAH 5 [24] Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and THE FLAME CONSUMETH THE CHAFF, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: BECAUSE THEY HAVE CAST AWAY THE LAW OF THE LORD OF HOSTS, and despised the word of THE HOLY ONE of Israel.

Theres the people Jesus {the Holy One} will burn. Those who believe they can cast away His law.
Again, they were under a different covenant.

The righteous do obey the commandments of God, but not the 615 commandments that pertained to ancient Israel. They are observing the spirit of the law, not the letter of the law.

By the way, I don't think you guys have addressed the main issue here...is the Mosaic Law in effect? If so, then the Sabbath is in effect.

If it pertains to a particular nation (Israel) during a particular time period (Moses to Christ) in a particular land (Israel) under a particular government (an autonomous, theocratic government), then it does not apply to the New Covenant believer EXCEPT as some elements reflected moral principles. It is your claim that the Sabbath is a moral issue, and continues to apply.

And, as I have indicated, the Sabbatarian view of Colossians 2:16-17 is incorrect. I identified the daily, monthly, annual or seasonal wording in regards to this to prove that it's talking about the weekly Sabbath.

No one bothered to answer the question, what does Sabbath mean, in Colossians 2:16-17 if it is not referring to the weekly Sabbath. If you say it's referring to festivals, then you have redundancy, as festivals are already mentioned. If you claim it's referring to other days such as Feast of Dedication, you have a problem because those were not part of the Law. So, you are stuck.

By the way, days are part of a much larger pattern that you are ignoring. Weekly Sabbath (weekly), New Moons (monthly), festivals (annually or seasonally), sabbath year (every seventh year) and Jubilee year (every fiftieth year). These days really fit all together in an amazing manner, and they are pointing toward the work of Christ.

If I were going to observe days, I would most certainly claim that they were ALL applicable, as they are one system. I would not be inconsistent and claim that only one out of the many are applicable. The whole Mosaic system fits together very well, and dissecting it like many Judaizers do simply doesn't reflect the system. They largely point to the liberation believers have in Christ, in a typological manner.
 

lightbearer

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You prove to me that the Ten Commandments are in a separate class as the rest of the Mosaic Law, in that all the Ten Commandments are moral and permanent in nature, while the rest of the Mosaic Law is a mixture.

Show me that the Sabbath is a moral issue as well.

Then, we will have something to talk about.

Regarding this verse:

Colossians 2:16-17 16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.
(ESV)
The text speaks. Verse 16 Starts with the word therefore. That means we need to consider what was said before, because what is about to be said is the conclusion. One only needs to go back a few verses to establish context.

The context is forgiveness. It says, Having been forgiven all trespasses in verse 13. Then in relation to that it says that the handwriting to the ordinances that were against and contrary to us were blotted out.

Why were they blotted out?

They are not needed anymore we have been forgiven. The handwriting to the ordinances were the judgments and ceremonies from God that Moses penned for when we sinned. These were against us and contrary to us not the ordinances themselves and certainly not the Decalogue.

The Judgments are not needed anymore because now we are forgiven through Christ. These Judgments were triumphed over through His Cross, He made a show of them openly spoiling all their powers. The meat and drink offerings, holyday, new moon and Sabbaths mentioned are from the handwriting to the ordinances according to the context. Those which pointed to Christ and His Mission.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting to the ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
(Col 2:13-16)
 

Wall

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The righteous do obey the commandments of God, but not the 615 commandments that pertained to ancient Israel. They are observing the spirit of the law, not the letter of the law.
According to the scriptures Jesus did not do away with the law but made the law greater. He magnified the law to a spiritual level. He made the 10 commandments even harder to keep.

2 COR. 3 [6] WHO ALSO HATH MADE US ABLE MINISTERS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT; NOT OF THE LETTER, BUT OF THE SPIRIT: FOR THE LETTER KILLETH, BUT THE SPIRIT GIVETH LIFE. [7] But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: [8] How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

ROMANS 7 [4] Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. [5] For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. [6] But now we are DELIVERED FROM THE LAW, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should SERVE IN NEWNESS OF SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE OLDNESS OF THE LETTER.

As we can see in above scriptures we are now to walk in the spirit of the law. If we walk only in the letter of the law this will lead to death, but if we walk in the spirit of the law this leads to life.

MATTHEW 5 [20] For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. [21] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, THOU SHALT NOT KILL; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: [22] BUT I SAY UNTO YOU, THAT WHOSOEVER IS ANGRY WITH HIS BROTHER WITHOUT A CAUSE SHALL BE IN DANGER OF THE JUDGMENT: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

OLD LETTER- Thou shalt not kill
NEW SPIRIT- Don’t even get angry. Call no man a fool. Love one another in thought, word and deed.

MATTHEW 5 [27] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, thou shalt not commit adultery: [28] But i say unto you, that WHOSOEVER LOOKETH ON A WOMAN TO LUST AFTER HER HATH COMMITTED ADULTERY with her already in his heart.

OLD LETTER- Thou shalt not commit adultery
NEW SPIRIT- Do not look on a woman to lust. Keep the law in our mind and spirit. Even in our eyes.

So you can see that Jesus did not do away with the letter of the law. Common sense will tell ya in order to walk in the spirit of the law you must also be walking in the letter. Jesus made the commandments even harder to keep and more honorable.

ISAIAH 42 [20] Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not.[21] The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; HE WILL MAGNIFY THE LAW, and make it honourable.

Yes, Jesus magnified the law. He took the letter of the law (which leads to death) and magnified the law to a spiritual level (which leads to life).
 

Wall

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And, as I have indicated, the Sabbatarian view of Colossians 2:16-17 is incorrect. I identified the daily, monthly, annual or seasonal wording in regards to this to prove that it's talking about the weekly Sabbath.
I agree
 

crossnote

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Without the sun, how will there be the counting of days and therefore the seventh day Sabbath?

Revelation 21:23 (KJV) And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

Revelation 22:5 (KJV) And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
 

gb9

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Without the sun, how will there be the counting of days and therefore the seventh day Sabbath?

Revelation 21:23 (KJV) And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

Revelation 22:5 (KJV) And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
the Sabbath was given to Israel as a part of the Sacred calendar . the judeaizers do not " keep the Sabbath" unless they are 100% exactly using that calendar.
 

UnitedWithChrist

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The text speaks. Verse 16 Starts with the word therefore. That means we need to consider what was said before, because what is about to be said is the conclusion. One only needs to go back a few verses to establish context.

The context is forgiveness. It says, Having been forgiven all trespasses in verse 13. Then in relation to that it says that the handwriting to the ordinances that were against and contrary to us were blotted out.

Why were they blotted out?

They are not needed anymore we have been forgiven. The handwriting to the ordinances were the judgments and ceremonies from God that Moses penned for when we sinned. These were against us and contrary to us not the ordinances themselves and certainly not the Decalogue.

The Judgments are not needed anymore because now we are forgiven through Christ. These Judgments were triumphed over through His Cross, He made a show of them openly spoiling all their powers. The meat and drink offerings, holyday, new moon and Sabbaths mentioned are from the handwriting to the ordinances according to the context. Those which pointed to Christ and His Mission.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting to the ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
(Col 2:13-16)
Note before I make any remarks that I do not advocate being disobedient to God and his enduring moral law whatsoever. I think your claim that the Ten Commandments stood alone and apart from the Book of the Covenant is a false claim. It is one unified law. The Ten Commandments summarized the Mosaic Law, but was not apart from it. There were deeper practical applications within the "Book of the Covenant", though. The Sabbath is not a moral issue, but is a ceremonial issue, just like the rest of the calendar observances.

They pointed toward Christ and elements of his ministry and work.

And, I think that your claims regarding "handwriting" do not, in fact, refer to the Book of the Covenant, but it is talking about a list of sins against the believer prior to their salvation. It is a "list of debts".

This is the way the ESV words it:


Colossians 2:13-15 3 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. 15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.
(ESV Strong's)

In fact, no believer is under the condemnation of the law. Any of the law. If they are in Christ, they are accounted as righteous. They strive to obey God but they are no longer under the condemnation of the law.

Here are some decent notes in a study bible I enjoy.

By the way, if you object to my use of notes, I really don't care. Nor do I blindly follow them as some of you have claimed. My thought is, why should I re-create the wheel when I can find a good, quick source that quotes essentially the same view? And, I know you guys have been fed doctrine from your sources as I recognize the same arguments from any SDA I've talked with.

Colossians 2:14-17 2:14 the charge of our legal indebtedness. Paul uses the metaphor of a legal bond or certificate of debt (an IOU) in which humans promise to obey what they know to be God’s will (cf. Rom 1:32). It becomes our death warrant when we fail to obey (cf. Rom 3:23) because we cannot possibly repay the debt. But God blotted out the list of debts and destroyed all the incriminating evidence against us when Christ was nailed on the cross in our place. Christ took away the burden of our guilt. Believers receive the verdict of his righteousness.
2:15 disarmed. In the crucifixion God paradoxically did to the powers what they did to Christ when they dragged him through Jerusalem, stripped him naked, treated him with contempt, and nailed the charges against him on the cross. God stripped the “powers and authorities” of their power and exposed their weakness. Christ’s victory on the cross brings freedom from the tyranny of these alien forces. triumphing over them by the cross. Roman generals celebrated their victories by marching through the streets of Rome exhibiting the spoils of war and parading their captives. Paul’s metaphor of the victory parade (2 Cor 2:14; Eph 4:8) imagines the cross as the chariot in which Christ rode as a triumphant general. Paul may envision Christ’s vanquished foes trailing behind him in humiliating defeat.
2:16 eat . . . drink . . . religious festival . . . celebration . . . Sabbath day. The opponents impose food laws and the observance of sacred days as part of their criteria for judging the Colossians’ spiritual merit. No one can invalidate their standing in Christ when they do not defer to these dictated stipulations that derive from “human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world” (v. 8) rather than from Christ.
2:17 a shadow. Paul contrasts appearance and reality. NT writers viewed the OT and its laws as promises belonging to the old era that culminated with the coming of Christ (cf. Heb 10:1). Paul warns the Colossians not to retreat to this shadow-world when they have been made eligible “to share in the inheritance of [God’s] holy people in the kingdom of light” (Col 1:12).
(NIV Biblical Theology Study Bible)

As I have said, there is no teaching that Gentiles were required to observe the Sabbath in the NT. If you can find it, show it to me. You will find a mention of both Jews and Gentiles meeting in the synagogue, but this is because there were some Gentiles, called "God-fearers", who were not physically circumcised, but were interested in spiritual things, and would meet with Jews in the synagogue to hear Torah read. It is funny that you guys use this as proof the Sabbath is still a requirement, since these were synagogue meetings, and that was the only place they could hear Torah read. Personal copies of Scripture were not readily available, and some would not have known how to read anyways.

If your claim that the Sabbath is binding is true, we would find instruction by Paul to Gentiles on this issue, but we find nothing. A deafening silence. And, besides that, the all-knowing God who possesses exhaustive foreknowledge would know that the Sabbath would be neglected, if your claim is true, so he would have provided warnings against it in the NT to counteract a wrong understanding. But, we find nothing.

And, we know that Gentile slaves would not have the ability to control their diet or the conditions of their labor on any day, therefore this most certainly would have been an issue that would have required clarification. Do we obey the master when he forces us to work on the Sabbath, or do we get continually beaten? What if he only feeds us unclean meat? Do we eat it or die?
 

UnitedWithChrist

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According to the scriptures Jesus did not do away with the law but made the law greater. He magnified the law to a spiritual level. He made the 10 commandments even harder to keep.

2 COR. 3 [6] WHO ALSO HATH MADE US ABLE MINISTERS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT; NOT OF THE LETTER, BUT OF THE SPIRIT: FOR THE LETTER KILLETH, BUT THE SPIRIT GIVETH LIFE. [7] But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: [8] How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

ROMANS 7 [4] Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. [5] For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. [6] But now we are DELIVERED FROM THE LAW, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should SERVE IN NEWNESS OF SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE OLDNESS OF THE LETTER.

As we can see in above scriptures we are now to walk in the spirit of the law. If we walk only in the letter of the law this will lead to death, but if we walk in the spirit of the law this leads to life.

MATTHEW 5 [20] For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. [21] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, THOU SHALT NOT KILL; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: [22] BUT I SAY UNTO YOU, THAT WHOSOEVER IS ANGRY WITH HIS BROTHER WITHOUT A CAUSE SHALL BE IN DANGER OF THE JUDGMENT: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

OLD LETTER- Thou shalt not kill
NEW SPIRIT- Don’t even get angry. Call no man a fool. Love one another in thought, word and deed.

MATTHEW 5 [27] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, thou shalt not commit adultery: [28] But i say unto you, that WHOSOEVER LOOKETH ON A WOMAN TO LUST AFTER HER HATH COMMITTED ADULTERY with her already in his heart.

OLD LETTER- Thou shalt not commit adultery
NEW SPIRIT- Do not look on a woman to lust. Keep the law in our mind and spirit. Even in our eyes.

So you can see that Jesus did not do away with the letter of the law. Common sense will tell ya in order to walk in the spirit of the law you must also be walking in the letter. Jesus made the commandments even harder to keep and more honorable.

ISAIAH 42 [20] Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not.[21] The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; HE WILL MAGNIFY THE LAW, and make it honourable.

Yes, Jesus magnified the law. He took the letter of the law (which leads to death) and magnified the law to a spiritual level (which leads to life).
Firstly, when Jesus magnified the law, you need to understand the overall metanarrative of Scripture, which I doubt that you do.

Man was created in the image of God, to reflect God's holiness and nature. I can't exhaustively discuss this now as it would require too much real estate. Adam's sin rendered all mankind unable to reflect God's holiness. God chose a man, Abraham, and his descendants, for the ultimate purpose of bearing the Messiah. Abraham's descendants were given the Mosaic Law, to show them what the image of God looks like in a man, in a rough, typological way that a fallen man can understand at some level. This Law, in some respects, showed them things about Jesus, in that Jesus is the perfect revelation of the image of God, since he is God.

God's intention is that men would reflect the image of God, which is basically the same thing as saying that they are to be conformed to the image of Jesus.

In terms of Jesus magnifying the law, he revealed the true, deeper intent of the law by his words and his life. He was showing the Jews the true image of God. In the Sermon on the Mount, he was showing them that despite their legalistic observances of the Mosaic Law, they were not reflecting the image of God, because their heart needed to be changed.

And, the righteousness that they needed to receive which goes beyond that of the Pharisees is his righteousness, given to them as a free gift. He was basically pointing to himself.

This should have served to condemn them in their sinfulness and to prepare them for the forgiveness that would have been available through his sacrifice. Through this sacrifice, and faith in Jesus, the believer is united with Christ, and this has two related consequences.

One, the believer is legally united with Christ, and God sees the believer as if Jesus and him are one. This means that the person is no longer condemned, because he shares in the asset of Jesus' righteousness. Two, the believer is spiritually united with Christ, and this means that the believer shares in Jesus' life. Additionally, through the mediation of the Holy Spirit, Jesus lives within the believer, and progressively transforms him into his image.

The believer has been joined to Christ, and has spiritual perception into the meaning of the image of God. The Mosaic Law was only typological. Additionally, he has the resource of the Holy Spirit, which unites him with Christ, to help him to understand the moral requirements of God.

Obviously days and diet are not the fixation of the apostolic writers, like Judaizers have made them. And, their attitude is one of judging and looking to condemn others. I can tell you as a former Judaizer that this is pretty much their total desire in life. It is to find fault with others, such as not worshiping on the "right day" or eating something that they don't think is right to eat, whether it is the unclean laws of the Mosaic Covenant, or ketchup, spices, meat, etcetera, as the SDAs claim will cause masturbation or nymphomania.

They are spiritual infants. They are still clinging to bottles and wearing diapers. Read Galatians 3-4 and focus on this, as this is what Paul is describing. They are claiming that laws meant to bring babies to maturity (the Jews) are the measuring standard. They are a bit like adult males who still require their mommies to walk across the street with them.

Anyways I hope this helps.
 

Wall

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If your claim that the Sabbath is binding is true, we would find instruction by Paul to Gentiles on this issue, but we find nothing. A deafening silence.
The greater question. Why isnt the supposed change of Gods 4th commandment discussed anywhere? All through the new testament circumcision is discussed frequently. The whole book of Galatians is about whether they needed to be circumsized or not. The Jews couldnt handle the change. Could you imagine how many discussions there would be if they were told they need not keep the 4th commandment of God? Yikes! It would be discussed in every book of the new testament. And yet....not one word. No discussions. Zero
 

Wall

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Firstly, when Jesus magnified the law, you need to understand the overall metanarrative of Scripture, which I doubt that you do.
Your right. I dont even know what " the overall metanarrative" means.
 
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Note before I make any remarks that I do not advocate being disobedient to God and his enduring moral law whatsoever. I think your claim that the Ten Commandments stood alone and apart from the Book of the Covenant is a false claim. It is one unified law. The Ten Commandments summarized the Mosaic Law, but was not apart from it. There were deeper practical applications within the "Book of the Covenant", though. The Sabbath is not a moral issue, but is a ceremonial issue, just like the rest of the calendar observances.

They pointed toward Christ and elements of his ministry and work.

And, I think that your claims regarding "handwriting" do not, in fact, refer to the Book of the Covenant, but it is talking about a list of sins against the believer prior to their salvation. It is a "list of debts".

This is the way the ESV words it:


Colossians 2:13-15 3 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. 15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.
(ESV Strong's)

In fact, no believer is under the condemnation of the law. Any of the law. If they are in Christ, they are accounted as righteous. They strive to obey God but they are no longer under the condemnation of the law.

Here are some decent notes in a study bible I enjoy.

By the way, if you object to my use of notes, I really don't care. Nor do I blindly follow them as some of you have claimed. My thought is, why should I re-create the wheel when I can find a good, quick source that quotes essentially the same view? And, I know you guys have been fed doctrine from your sources as I recognize the same arguments from any SDA I've talked with.

Colossians 2:14-17 2:14 the charge of our legal indebtedness. Paul uses the metaphor of a legal bond or certificate of debt (an IOU) in which humans promise to obey what they know to be God’s will (cf. Rom 1:32). It becomes our death warrant when we fail to obey (cf. Rom 3:23) because we cannot possibly repay the debt. But God blotted out the list of debts and destroyed all the incriminating evidence against us when Christ was nailed on the cross in our place. Christ took away the burden of our guilt. Believers receive the verdict of his righteousness.
2:15 disarmed. In the crucifixion God paradoxically did to the powers what they did to Christ when they dragged him through Jerusalem, stripped him naked, treated him with contempt, and nailed the charges against him on the cross. God stripped the “powers and authorities” of their power and exposed their weakness. Christ’s victory on the cross brings freedom from the tyranny of these alien forces. triumphing over them by the cross. Roman generals celebrated their victories by marching through the streets of Rome exhibiting the spoils of war and parading their captives. Paul’s metaphor of the victory parade (2 Cor 2:14; Eph 4:8) imagines the cross as the chariot in which Christ rode as a triumphant general. Paul may envision Christ’s vanquished foes trailing behind him in humiliating defeat.
2:16 eat . . . drink . . . religious festival . . . celebration . . . Sabbath day. The opponents impose food laws and the observance of sacred days as part of their criteria for judging the Colossians’ spiritual merit. No one can invalidate their standing in Christ when they do not defer to these dictated stipulations that derive from “human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world” (v. 8) rather than from Christ.
2:17 a shadow. Paul contrasts appearance and reality. NT writers viewed the OT and its laws as promises belonging to the old era that culminated with the coming of Christ (cf. Heb 10:1). Paul warns the Colossians not to retreat to this shadow-world when they have been made eligible “to share in the inheritance of [God’s] holy people in the kingdom of light” (Col 1:12).
(NIV Biblical Theology Study Bible)

As I have said, there is no teaching that Gentiles were required to observe the Sabbath in the NT. If you can find it, show it to me. You will find a mention of both Jews and Gentiles meeting in the synagogue, but this is because there were some Gentiles, called "God-fearers", who were not physically circumcised, but were interested in spiritual things, and would meet with Jews in the synagogue to hear Torah read. It is funny that you guys use this as proof the Sabbath is still a requirement, since these were synagogue meetings, and that was the only place they could hear Torah read. Personal copies of Scripture were not readily available, and some would not have known how to read anyways.

If your claim that the Sabbath is binding is true, we would find instruction by Paul to Gentiles on this issue, but we find nothing. A deafening silence. And, besides that, the all-knowing God who possesses exhaustive foreknowledge would know that the Sabbath would be neglected, if your claim is true, so he would have provided warnings against it in the NT to counteract a wrong understanding. But, we find nothing.

And, we know that Gentile slaves would not have the ability to control their diet or the conditions of their labor on any day, therefore this most certainly would have been an issue that would have required clarification. Do we obey the master when he forces us to work on the Sabbath, or do we get continually beaten? What if he only feeds us unclean meat? Do we eat it or die?
Thanks for that.

I like to focus on meaning of the word. The word sabbath is simply not a time sensitive word. The second a person attaches time element to it it takes away the gospel .

The temporal is the shadow .The prescription in Corinthians 4:18 must be applied or a person could find themselves worshiping angels as fallen messengers the spirits of lies.

The commandment as a law of faith below.

Colossians 2;18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshiping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

When Jesus the Son of man as the high Priest was faced with the idea of worshiping angels in Mathew 4 . The father put his words on Jesus the prophets lips, as it is written, and again as it is written.

The father who worked with Jesus would not allow those thoughts to enter his fleshly mind . We have His mind working in us. Why look to the temporal things seen. . like time under the sun?
 

UnitedWithChrist

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The greater question. Why isnt the supposed change of Gods 4th commandment discussed anywhere? All through the new testament circumcision is discussed frequently. The whole book of Galatians is about whether they needed to be circumsized or not. The Jews couldnt handle the change. Could you imagine how many discussions there would be if they were told they need not keep the 4th commandment of God? Yikes! It would be discussed in every book of the new testament. And yet....not one word. No discussions. Zero
Circumcision is one of the two signs of the Mosaic Covenant.

Physical circumcision indicates that the person enters into the covenant community of Israel. He is a "new creation", in a sense, because he has been taken out of "Adam" (the old creation) and placed into "Israel" (the new creation).

The Sabbath was a weekly reminder of this covenant affiliation.

Therefore, the reason circumcision is focused upon, with regards to Judaizers, is that being circumcised, is, in essence, attaching one's self to Israel. The calendar observances would have followed. Circumcision is only the first step.

Sometimes Christian teachers have said that Galatians ONLY involved circumcision, but it also involved complete allegiance to the Mosaic Covenant. One can determine that by reading the text of Galatians and seeing that days are mentioned as well.

In other words, the writers were focused on circumcision because circumcision is more than just circumcision; it is commitment to the entire Mosaic Covenant, including calendar observances.
 
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The greater question. Why isnt the supposed change of Gods 4th commandment discussed anywhere? All through the new testament circumcision is discussed frequently. The whole book of Galatians is about whether they needed to be circumsized or not. The Jews couldnt handle the change. Could you imagine how many discussions there would be if they were told they need not keep the 4th commandment of God? Yikes! It would be discussed in every book of the new testament. And yet....not one word. No discussions. Zero
We keep it by guarding that shadow as a shadow .

Its discussed in the interpretation .

The two different rendering use different reasons in the parables . They both speak of the last day. Used to represent the last day the timing for the end of the world . This is when the shadows become the substance (eternal rest)

God does not use parables to help understand moral laws .This shows it is a shadow.

Exodus 20: 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Deuteronomy 5: 15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the Lord thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the Lord thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
 

UnitedWithChrist

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Your right. I dont even know what " the overall metanarrative" means.
The overall storyline of Scripture.

Creation, Fall, Rescue (Redemption), Restoration.

Creation - Man was created by God to reflect his image, and to rule over earth as his representative.

Fall - Man sinned in the Garden, and no longer reflects his image.

Rescue (Redemption) - Jesus came to rescue fallen mankind, by living a perfectly righteous life and dying a substitutionary death on the Cross.

Restoration - God is restoring mankind to his image, through the indwelling presence of Jesus through the mediation of the Holy Spirit, and ultimately will restore mankind's body and the entire creation at the consummation, when he returns to Earth.

The end result is something like a glorified garden of Eden, where man is restored to complete fellowship with God. Ultimately God's purpose is for man to rule in his creation, reflecting the image of God to others, which would include his holiness, love, mercy, kindness, and all other communicable attributes of God. He is to be a physical representation of God, who worships God with his entire being.

The Law fits into this, because it shows the man his state of fallenness, because it shows how much he deviates from the holiness of God. This should condemn him, and show him his need for mercy. He responds in faith, and repentance. He is then united with Christ, and Christ begins to transform him from the inside out.

The heart must change before anyone can obey God. They need a heart that is revolving its existence around God, and not around self.

The Law serves the purpose of exposing deceitful man's heart, and shows him that it is not good, and does not want to obey God.

Unfortunately Judaizers, instead of seeing their brokenness, try to keep the Law and never reach true faith and repentance. And, at some carnal level, they can keep the Law in an outward way, even though their heart is still evil and deceived. This is the essence of Judaizers.
 
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Circumcision is one of the two signs of the Mosaic Covenant.

Physical circumcision indicates that the person enters into the covenant community of Israel. He is a "new creation", in a sense, because he has been taken out of "Adam" (the old creation) and placed into "Israel" (the new creation).

The Sabbath was a weekly reminder of this covenant affiliation.

Therefore, the reason circumcision is focused upon, with regards to Judaizers, is that being circumcised, is, in essence, attaching one's self to Israel. The calendar observances would have followed. Circumcision is only the first step.

Sometimes Christian teachers have said that Galatians ONLY involved circumcision, but it also involved complete allegiance to the Mosaic Covenant. One can determine that by reading the text of Galatians and seeing that days are mentioned as well.

In other words, the writers were focused on circumcision because circumcision is more than just circumcision; it is commitment to the entire Mosaic Covenant, including calendar observances.
Yes, a sign of the first born our bloody husband beforehand and the glory that did follow the words . . "It is finished " the resurrection gate was opened ...

Ziporah a gentile woman in that parable is used to introduce our bloody husband Christ suffering beforehand. God spared her son (Gershom) just as he did with his first born Jesus . Gershom meaning "stranger" as in no familiarity with God . His own people rejected him. He is not a man as us.

She surely was not calling her literal son . . Gershom a bloody husband.

Exodus 4:23- 26And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the Lord met him, and sought to kill him.
Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a
bloody husband art thou to me.So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision

Using "bloody husband" twice to emphasize the nature of the parable using the things seen the temporal to give us the signified understanding of faith .

Both that parable above and the parable using Abraham and Isaac give understanding to what Peter replies.

1 Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.