This is not actually an acid test, but a Jason test. However, I said I would play your game one last time and so I shall:
Correct; by stating "I sure hope so", I have implied that I am not 100% certain as to whether or not it is possible for God to save someone who has died "in unrepentant sin". Here is the scripture that comes to mind, when I reflect on why I am not certain:
James 4:13-15. I don't claim to know what God will or will not do -- but I do believe that nothing is impossible with God (Luke 1:37). I think my best response to your question is from Luke 18:17 "whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it" or Matthew 18:3 "Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."
I believe I have said all that I need to say regarding your question. However, since I have had a bit of time to understand how you tend to behave on these forums, I will touch on the verses you referenced:
"...unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God..." (1 Corinthians 6:9): In today's world, if someone rapes someone they are forever called a rapist. Do you think God considers a person who has committed this sin to be forever, a rapist? God's grace is sufficient (2 Corinthians 12:9) -- even rapists can be saved. Also, this verse from 2 Corinthians tells us that God's "strength is made perfect in weakness" -- this was an encouragement, to Paul, which gave him strength in subsequent sufferings. God's grace attains His purposes in a fallen world, despite human weaknesses.
Ultimately, if we understand your question to mean: If a Christian knowingly commits a sin (that is to willingly reject God by choosing evil even while being convicted) and then dies before repenting, will the person be saved? The answer is: Only God knows.
Notice the difference between using the word "will" versus "can" when asking the question; "will" asks the question: Will (something) happen? While "can" asks the question: Is (something) possible? Since most Christians believe that nothing is impossible with God, then I believe this is one source for many of your disagreements with those whom you falsely call OSAS Proponents. I say "falsely" because "proponent" implies that the person is supporting a specific position or policy, here we see folks disagreeing with you but not necessarily promoting or supporting the opposite extreme to your position. I have yet to see a single post, where someone was definitely advocating for the extreme OSAS position. Several have mentioned this before yet it never seems to sink-in, with you. I think I recall at least one occasion where you lightly addressed this issue, and it seems your stance is that since your belief is extreme -- everything else is supporting the contrary. Which is simply, not the case.
Galatians 5:19-21 - This section does list sins, it calls them "The acts of the flesh...", it does also say that "those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God" -- I understand this to be instruction and advice to Christians who are like children, not a mere statement of fact. The emphasis of the chapter is Freedom in Christ and Life by the Spirit, not Sinless Perfection or Salvation Security.
Colossians 3:5-7 - This section also lists sins, and it says that we should "Put to death..." these things. "Put to death" sounds final -- Similar to the previous verses, this section is about Instruction for those who are alive in Christ.
Ephesians 5:2-8 - Again, more sins listed, and let's look at this: "For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light...". Are you a parent, Jason -- do you have children? I think that fathers and mothers probably better understand what it means, to live as children. A child must learn, in time, that which is pure/good/true/right. A child makes many mistakes in his/her lifetime. A child is constantly needing assistance. A child is also innocent. Also, this section (just as the previous verses) is about instruction for God's people -- essentially How to Live as a Christian.
Yeah, I'm not too sure -- because your question is not clear. Again, you used "can" which implies a possibility -- but we don't need to revisit this argument, here, as this has already previously been mentioned and the same argument holds true (which is also why I chose to answer with a "I think so". Furthermore, one who is out of fellowship is essentially an unbeliever -- which makes your question borderline rhetorical (Can a tree swim?).
I'm not going to go into great detail, expanding on the verses you presented here. Ultimately you are attempting to show that the instruction we receive from the Word on How to Live Our New Life in Christ carries an additional purpose; to warn us, that if we do not do these things then we will not be saved.
More importantly than the warning, though, is the roadmap for life provided. I have yet to meet a man (human) who claims they have achieved this (as you call) Sinless Perfection. Part of salvation is recognizing that you sin. After you have recognized this for the first time in your human life -- you continue to recognize this throughout your life (at least, this has been my experience as well as the experience of those who have come and gone before me). A follower of Christ will, throughout his or her life, continue to be convicted of their weakness and continue to be strenghthened in Christ...like a child.
You're right, I don't really know -- in fact, none of us do. Which is why it is very outrageous for us to hear you claim that you do know.
Here's what I do know (which is what I said before): If a Christian is convicted of his/her Sin, then that person should confess/repent (James 5:14-16).
As for your claims about 1 John 1:9, my understanding of the verse is best represented by the Reformation Study Bible (which happens to be found on one of your favorite websites):
"1:9 If we confess our sins. God’s forgiveness is given as soon as we admit our need of it, not on the basis of any acts we have done to earn it, but solely because of His grace. The free gift of forgiveness carries with it purification from unrighteousness. God accepts us as righteous because He imputes to us the righteousness of Christ. That is, the very righteousness of Christ our sin-bearer is reckoned to our account." (
https://www.biblegateway.com/resources/reformation-study-bible/1John.1.9)
1 John 1:9 says that if we confess, God will forgive. It does not say that we must confess in order to be forgiven. Your comment, "Either 1 John 1:9 is true or what the OSAS Proponent says is true." is ludicrous. Of course, what 1 John 1:9 says is true -- however, what you claim it says is not actually what it says. You assign additional meaning to the text -- you have twisted a promise into a forumla for salvation. I still have not met an OSAS Proponent, so I have no comment on the second half of your statement concerning 1 John 1:9.
Yep, you're right again; I am not sure of the outcome and here's why:
In response to your question, I said that if a Christian is convicted, that person shall confess. This is expected to happen in the future -- but will it? There are numerous possibilities as to what may occur within each individual Christian, and so no one but God knows the outcome. So it's not a patter of "which is it?", but it is a matter of realizing the endless possibilites in Christ.
"Does it really matter..." - The Word seems pretty clear on advising (or commanding us) to confess our sins.
One thing I just noticed is that you use "they" instead of "we" -- this implies that you do not consider yourself to be one of us (a follower of Christ). I am quite certain you will want to refute this observation, so just take it as a grain of salt -- a bit of light onto how your words are potentially perceived by others. This may help answer some questions you may have about why you may feel attacked by others.
I guess I never really fully understood your question: "If so, then how does that line up with..." Does "if so" mean "if it is possible to 'die in unrepentant sin and still be saved'? If so, then after you have understood this apology thus far, either your questions will be answered or you will have new questions.
Nevertheless, I will now focus on 1 John 2:3-4 for a moment:
Once again, Reformation Study Bible is clear; (
https://www.biblegateway.com/resources/reformation-study-bible/1John.2.1-1John.2.6)
I want to place an emphasis on this section, which MANY here on CC have attempted to communicate to you on numerous occasions: "This knowledge of Christ is called a 'perfected' love of God (v. 5), not because it makes us personally sinless, but because it is irrevocably established in those who live by it."
Once again, I have still yet to see an OSAS Proponent here in this thread (or any of the threads I have been participating in). I have also yet to see someone claim that the gift of Salvation is equalivalent to a license to sin. What I HAVE seen is you, misunderstanding others and others misunderstanding you. I have seen you misunderstand our explainations to mean we accept a "license to sin" -- I have seen a few people attempt to clairify that they do NOT accept this "license to sin" mentality but you will not let it rest. You seem to believe that if a person thinks it is POSSIBLE ('can' vs. 'will') to sin and be saved, that they automatically subscribe to this "license to sin" extreme. Sin, Salvation, Life, and Spiritual matters are not as simple as a coin with two sides -- few arguments are.
Most of the time, most people don't (understand what you meant). And thank you for clairifying -- the answer to your question is: No (and this question is just as arbitrary as the "out of fellowship" question.
This seems to be a decent definition of what you call an OSAS Proponent: "Can a believer willingly plan to deceive God and just believe on Jesus and live a double life in sin and just plan to repent before he dies? Thereby having a mental belief requirement of the OSAS faith."
For the umph-tenth time, no one (in this thread or these threads) has said this. No one (here) subscribes to this "license to sin" idea. I can surly understand why you would want to rebuke someone who did preach this herasy. However, it seems your OP was an attempt to bait these of the OSAS faith, when instead you received questions and challenges from fellow Christ-Followers. I've said this before, and I'll say it again: It seems to me, like you jumped-the-gun and started accusing/condemning those of us who challenged your posts -- lumping us into this "OSAS Proponent" category without FIRST understanding our views. Perhaps we are just as guilty as you (I know I'm guilty) in failing to completely understand those we are conversing with. This spiraled for a few days. I'm glad it's coming to a close. Ultimately, I'm thankful for the experience, as I have grown through it (and I hope others have as well).
I guess there's no point in answering your question, because, of course I believe that Jesus' words apply today. Paul warns us of false teachers -- perhaps he should have also warned us of those who attempt to bait false teachers and in doing so cause strife and friction amongst fellow Christ-Followers.
(Continued on next post...)
