Imputed Righteousness???
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Then what is the righteousness we have if not Christ's?
Justification before God cannot be understood apart from understanding that scripture teaches we indeed are clothed with the righteousness of Christ, hence 'imputed' righteousness; ie not our own righteousness. I am not sure why you would think that imputed righteousness is not found in scripture when actually we have no other kind.
Forgiven through the blood of Christ, His sinless blood, literally illustrates the fact that it is HIS righteousness that we have.
The verb “impute” is a technical term that means “to charge or account something to a person which that person did not previously have, to reckon as yours something you did not previously possess.” It comes from the Latin verb imputare, which is the Latin translation for the Greek verb used in the New Testament,
Justification before God cannot be understood apart from understanding that scripture teaches we indeed are clothed with the righteousness of Christ, hence 'imputed' righteousness; ie not our own righteousness. I am not sure why you would think that imputed righteousness is not found in scripture when actually we have no other kind.
Forgiven through the blood of Christ, His sinless blood, literally illustrates the fact that it is HIS righteousness that we have.
The verb “impute” is a technical term that means “to charge or account something to a person which that person did not previously have, to reckon as yours something you did not previously possess.” It comes from the Latin verb imputare, which is the Latin translation for the Greek verb used in the New Testament,
I think it’s a misunderstanding of this part of doctrine
“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh;
and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
John 3:5-6 KJV
“It is the spirit that quickeneth;
the flesh profiteth nothing:
the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
John 6:63
“For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption;
but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.”
Galatians 6:8 KJV
“For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.”
Galatians 5:17 KJV
We are conflicted we have been since we broke the commandment
“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
Genesis 2:16-17 KJV
“And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.”
Genesis 3:22, 24
The conflict manifests within us like this
“And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man,
for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.”
Genesis 6:3 KJV
And so the answer is
“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but
if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
Romans 8:13
“And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.”
Galatians 5:24 KJV
and we return to the source so we understand the terminology being used
“It is the spirit that quickeneth;
the flesh profiteth nothing:
the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
John 6:63
“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit,
and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.”
Galatians 5:16 KJV
Flesh and blood isnt evil it is the way man is tempted , our weakness
“For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.”
2 Peter 2:18
“among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.”
Ephesians 2:3 KJV
“But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.”
Romans 13:14
Jesus set this doctrine in place but Paul later really explains it well mankind is conflicted between the lusts of the flesh and the Will of the spirit . The flesh lusts for things contrary to the spiritual things it’s always a conflict we’re being pulled in two directions
“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh;
and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
John 3:5-6 KJV
“It is the spirit that quickeneth;
the flesh profiteth nothing:
the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
John 6:63
“For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption;
but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.”
Galatians 6:8 KJV
“For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.”
Galatians 5:17 KJV
We are conflicted we have been since we broke the commandment
“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
Genesis 2:16-17 KJV
“And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.”
Genesis 3:22, 24
The conflict manifests within us like this
“And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man,
for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.”
Genesis 6:3 KJV
And so the answer is
“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but
if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
Romans 8:13
“And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.”
Galatians 5:24 KJV
and we return to the source so we understand the terminology being used
“It is the spirit that quickeneth;
the flesh profiteth nothing:
the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
John 6:63
“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit,
and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.”
Galatians 5:16 KJV
Flesh and blood isnt evil it is the way man is tempted , our weakness
“For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.”
2 Peter 2:18
“among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.”
Ephesians 2:3 KJV
“But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.”
Romans 13:14
Jesus set this doctrine in place but Paul later really explains it well mankind is conflicted between the lusts of the flesh and the Will of the spirit . The flesh lusts for things contrary to the spiritual things it’s always a conflict we’re being pulled in two directions
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Ok here’s something it states for you to stand on
“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
Romans 2:5-11 KJV
“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
Romans 2:5-11 KJV
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I stand on my freedom in Christ and not on condemnation from a person who appears to have a comprehension problem. Are you always this aggressive for no reason? It seems you have not apprehended the entire truth of the gospel. I made no statement that it is ok to continue in sin and yet you seem very eager to understand the words imputed righteousness as living a sinful lifestyle.
If you consider a person contentious who does not agree with error, then I would think there are many contentious people in this forum.
I will concede that there are some here who cannot seem to understand that we are made righteous through Christ and nothing we do adds to that righteousness. No argument has been made by anyone, including myself, that I can see, that would allow for continuance in sin when we understand that Christ alone is our righteousness. It would prove helpful to stop adding to what others say here. The idea we should or can continue heedlessly in our sin is your mistaken idea alone. I doubt anyone thinks that but for some reason, you are all up in the air about it.
If you consider a person contentious who does not agree with error, then I would think there are many contentious people in this forum.
I will concede that there are some here who cannot seem to understand that we are made righteous through Christ and nothing we do adds to that righteousness. No argument has been made by anyone, including myself, that I can see, that would allow for continuance in sin when we understand that Christ alone is our righteousness. It would prove helpful to stop adding to what others say here. The idea we should or can continue heedlessly in our sin is your mistaken idea alone. I doubt anyone thinks that but for some reason, you are all up in the air about it.
I didn’t condemn you you said you stand on what the Bible says so I wuoted part of what it says …..you started an argument , the. Persisted then I wuoted some scripture because you said “ I stand on what the bible says …..
heres some more quotes from “the Bible on which you stand”
“Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.”
1 John 3:7-8
Here’s another quote from Paul’s letters to the church the “scriptures on which you stand “
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
2 Corinthians 5:10-11
just quoting to you from the Bible you said you stick with because you for whatever reason decided to begin insulting and arguing with me . Again these are Bible quotes …not me condemning you but trying to show you there’s more to acknolwedge than saying “ I’m free on Christ nothing I do matters I’ll never be judged I’m already saved ect ect “
at he bibke doesn’t teach that stuff , I heard it read to me at five years old and still read it at 72 it doesn’t teach tbat stuff .
imputed righteousness is a real phrase used in Paul’s writings but he also teaches the accountability of the believers for what they do and say regarding thier judgement and inheritance in Christ
The Bible teaches real stuff that’s supposed to change how we think not meant fornus to hesr and say oh “that’s not true “or “that’s just
Condemnation”
jesus warns that if we are t wanting to hear his doctrine , we shouldn’t of we see it’s going to far fornus we should stop and just try to do what we already know of it a lot of people should consider slowing down with teaching others out the Bible until they know the Bible.
i dont teach not a teacher or pastor or prophet or anything special just an old fool in a forum on the internets . I like to discuss it but just to be clear lol “ I do t have any doctrine I’m spreading I just like to discuss the Bible and share the gospel and the doctrine of Jesus Christ that’s written in everyone’s Bible and is the actual right doctrine and true doctrine of God
“Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.
He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:”
2 John 1:9-10 KJV
heres some more quotes from “the Bible on which you stand”
“Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.”
1 John 3:7-8
Here’s another quote from Paul’s letters to the church the “scriptures on which you stand “
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
2 Corinthians 5:10-11
just quoting to you from the Bible you said you stick with because you for whatever reason decided to begin insulting and arguing with me . Again these are Bible quotes …not me condemning you but trying to show you there’s more to acknolwedge than saying “ I’m free on Christ nothing I do matters I’ll never be judged I’m already saved ect ect “
at he bibke doesn’t teach that stuff , I heard it read to me at five years old and still read it at 72 it doesn’t teach tbat stuff .
imputed righteousness is a real phrase used in Paul’s writings but he also teaches the accountability of the believers for what they do and say regarding thier judgement and inheritance in Christ
The Bible teaches real stuff that’s supposed to change how we think not meant fornus to hesr and say oh “that’s not true “or “that’s just
Condemnation”
jesus warns that if we are t wanting to hear his doctrine , we shouldn’t of we see it’s going to far fornus we should stop and just try to do what we already know of it a lot of people should consider slowing down with teaching others out the Bible until they know the Bible.
i dont teach not a teacher or pastor or prophet or anything special just an old fool in a forum on the internets . I like to discuss it but just to be clear lol “ I do t have any doctrine I’m spreading I just like to discuss the Bible and share the gospel and the doctrine of Jesus Christ that’s written in everyone’s Bible and is the actual right doctrine and true doctrine of God
“Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.
He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:”
2 John 1:9-10 KJV
Yes I do believe you see a discussion as an argument the moment someone disagrees with something you post. I'm not arguing and perhaps if you were not convinced you had to preach at everyone, you might see that.
There is nothing whatsoever you could ever tell me about how to live for Christ or what it means to be a Christ follower. Jesus is our cornerstone and you had best build on that and not all this verbiage you toss around.
I would like to remind you that you stated you were not interested in what I had to say. However, it seems you think you need to teach here and you fall short. I do not believe you are a teacher but rather someone who is not secure and therefore must prove themself to be right no matter what. I have no idea why you seem to be so against the idea of imputed righteousness other than you may not understand what it actually means.
It's a fruitless discussion I'm afraid.
There is nothing whatsoever you could ever tell me about how to live for Christ or what it means to be a Christ follower. Jesus is our cornerstone and you had best build on that and not all this verbiage you toss around.
I would like to remind you that you stated you were not interested in what I had to say. However, it seems you think you need to teach here and you fall short. I do not believe you are a teacher but rather someone who is not secure and therefore must prove themself to be right no matter what. I have no idea why you seem to be so against the idea of imputed righteousness other than you may not understand what it actually means.
It's a fruitless discussion I'm afraid.
I think you two (Pilgrimshope & you) can be unified if you both would understand that IR because of spiritual oneness with Jesus via receiving His HS at conversion is one truth, but it is also true or biblical teaching that apostasy is possible and souls may shipwreck their faith if they do not persevere in cooperating with GW regarding moral/godly behavior with the goal of actual perfection Paul cited in PHP 2:12 & 3:12.
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Yes arguing doesn’t allow spiritual unity or spiritual maturity
“Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly—mere infants in Christ. I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere humans?”
1 Corinthians 3:1-3
“Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.”
Romans 16:17 KJV
“fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.”
Philippians 2:2
If we spend our time arguing and creating enemies because they don’t see things like we do there could never be unity in any group of believers
“Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.”
1 Corinthians 11:17-19 KJV
Arguing is a good thing to try not to partake of especially among believers about biblical Important matters
just one step in unity but arguing doesn’t lead there
“Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly—mere infants in Christ. I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere humans?”
1 Corinthians 3:1-3
“Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.”
Romans 16:17 KJV
“fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.”
Philippians 2:2
If we spend our time arguing and creating enemies because they don’t see things like we do there could never be unity in any group of believers
“Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.”
1 Corinthians 11:17-19 KJV
Arguing is a good thing to try not to partake of especially among believers about biblical Important matters
just one step in unity but arguing doesn’t lead there
I’d never even met or spoke. To this person here’s our interaction
i received this regarding a discussion i was having with someone
“what are you on about? we have none of our own righteousness whatsoever. who is serving sin? smh”
I responded “ not interested “
They responded
“Imputed righteousness is what scripture teaches.
You are not interested. From your doctrine shall no one learn anything that benefits them. What you think of me is of no consequence”
Apparently I’ve already let them no what I think of them personally by expressing no interest in the argument They are seeking. So I responded after reading thier idea and “interpretation “of “imputed righteousness “
“Not interested in arguing ridiculous ideas already done that”
They replied
“Whatever argument you imagine is between your own ears. I stand on what the Bible states.”
So I replied with scripture…. From Roman’s chapter 2 and said here’s some scripture for you to stand on ….
And was told this in response
“I stand on my freedom in Christ and not on condemnation from a person who appears to have a comprehension problem. Are you always this aggressive for no reason? It seems you have not apprehended the entire truth of the gospel. I made no statement that it is ok to continue in sin and yet you seem very eager to understand the words imputed righteousness as living a sinful lifestyle.
If you consider a person contentious who does not agree with error, then I would think there are many contentious people in this forum.
“I will concede that there are some here who cannot seem to understand that we are made righteous through Christ and nothing we do adds to that righteousness. No argument has been made by anyone, including myself, that I can see, that would allow for continuance in sin when we understand that Christ alone is our righteousness. It would prove helpful to stop adding to what others say here. The idea we should or can continue heedlessly in our sin is your mistaken idea alone. I doubt anyone thinks that but for some reason, you are all up in the air about it.”
So by replying to them with some scripture because they said they stand on what the Bible says then I had apparently done all that to them
I’m not interested in arguing with people I never was with this person either. Have no interest in too old to argue with people over plainly stated things in the Bible , while in a Bible discussion forum
i do t have time when I don’t agree with someone ideas about God for them to begin claiming victimization and Personal attack tbat was never there , to create a straw man of things I hadn’t said lol and then except me to continue on with a normal discussion
….I’m not a therapist or toddler sitter or jr high schooler . I’m a broke down old fool in a Bible discussion forum Hungry for biblical discussion with mature human beings. Who don’t seek argument and create things to argue about.
I’m too old for it got no patience for it not here for it.
i received this regarding a discussion i was having with someone
“what are you on about? we have none of our own righteousness whatsoever. who is serving sin? smh”
I responded “ not interested “
They responded
“Imputed righteousness is what scripture teaches.
You are not interested. From your doctrine shall no one learn anything that benefits them. What you think of me is of no consequence”
Apparently I’ve already let them no what I think of them personally by expressing no interest in the argument They are seeking. So I responded after reading thier idea and “interpretation “of “imputed righteousness “
“Not interested in arguing ridiculous ideas already done that”
They replied
“Whatever argument you imagine is between your own ears. I stand on what the Bible states.”
So I replied with scripture…. From Roman’s chapter 2 and said here’s some scripture for you to stand on ….
And was told this in response
“I stand on my freedom in Christ and not on condemnation from a person who appears to have a comprehension problem. Are you always this aggressive for no reason? It seems you have not apprehended the entire truth of the gospel. I made no statement that it is ok to continue in sin and yet you seem very eager to understand the words imputed righteousness as living a sinful lifestyle.
If you consider a person contentious who does not agree with error, then I would think there are many contentious people in this forum.
“I will concede that there are some here who cannot seem to understand that we are made righteous through Christ and nothing we do adds to that righteousness. No argument has been made by anyone, including myself, that I can see, that would allow for continuance in sin when we understand that Christ alone is our righteousness. It would prove helpful to stop adding to what others say here. The idea we should or can continue heedlessly in our sin is your mistaken idea alone. I doubt anyone thinks that but for some reason, you are all up in the air about it.”
So by replying to them with some scripture because they said they stand on what the Bible says then I had apparently done all that to them
I’m not interested in arguing with people I never was with this person either. Have no interest in too old to argue with people over plainly stated things in the Bible , while in a Bible discussion forum
i do t have time when I don’t agree with someone ideas about God for them to begin claiming victimization and Personal attack tbat was never there , to create a straw man of things I hadn’t said lol and then except me to continue on with a normal discussion
….I’m not a therapist or toddler sitter or jr high schooler . I’m a broke down old fool in a Bible discussion forum Hungry for biblical discussion with mature human beings. Who don’t seek argument and create things to argue about.
I’m too old for it got no patience for it not here for it.
Not too old to spend time creating this ridiculous response to another poster. Anyone can post scripture and you certainly do post it.
I disagree that you want honest discussion. I politely said I would discuss the term 'imputed righteousness' if you want, which you do not respond to, and then I come across this self flagellating rant. You call yourself a 'broke down old fool'. We are redeemed by Christ and are loved by God our Father. You should not call yourself such things.
I do not have an opinion or theory about imputed righteousness. It seems you do not understand the term and may think it is made up. Perhaps just put me on ignore.