In the Truth God is our safety

throughfaith · Mar 5, 2021

Hi throughfaith.

The mystery indeed is Christ as Paul says. I am not sure how you can make that say that Jesus taught a different gospel than Paul considering the life, death and resurrection of Jesus is the 'mystery'.

We see this mystery unfolding from the very start of scripture:

Gen 3:15 - Did Adam and eve know it was going to be Jesus the son of God.. Possibly not but they believed the promise.

Gen 12; John 8:56;Gal 3:7 -- Did Abraham know exactly how the promise would play out ? possibly not but what does Jesus say - our father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.”

Then we can go on to Moses, david etc etc. As we get closer and closer the picture is revealed more and more until God reveals this 'mystery' That is as Paul says Jesus.

This mystery was revealed in Israel and then as time went by out to the whole world. Jews and gentiles alike in Christ Jesus, one people of God.

So we don't have a problem that the message went to the Jewish people first but a big part of the mystery was the full inclusion of gentiles. Just as Paul tells us in Ephesians and elsewhere:

For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. (Ephesians 2)

Col 2.2
2That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;

“The mystery of God” is defined in Revelation 10:7,

“The mystery of Christ” is called “THE MYSTERY OF CHRIST” in Ephesians 3:4 and is defined in Ephesians 3:1–9.

Because of the translation your using, you will have no idea what the text actually says.

phil36 · Mar 5, 2021

throughfaith said:

Yep I definatley agree Christ is not mysterious... he is the revealed mystery.. as Paul says.

------ 26 the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the Lord’s people (Col 1)

We see this mystery unfolding from the very start of scripture:
Gen 3:15 - Did Adam and eve know it was going to be Jesus the son of God.. Possibly not but they believed the promise.

Gen 12; John 8:56;Gal 3:7 -- Did Abraham know exactly how the promise would play out ? possibly not but what does Jesus say - our father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.”

Then we can go on to Moses, david etc etc. As we get closer and closer the picture is revealed more and more until God reveals this 'mystery' That is as Paul says Jesus.

This mystery was revealed in Israel and then as time went by out to the whole world. Jews and gentiles alike in Christ Jesus, one people of God.

So you still haven't shown how Jesus taught a different gospel from Paul or that there are two separate gospels.

For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. (Ephesians 2)

throughfaith · Mar 5, 2021

phil36 said:

Writing to the Corinthians Paul says-"Let a man so account of us as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the-'Mysteries of God'." 1 Cor. 4:1.
In Rom. 16:25,26, Paul speaks of what he calls "My Gospel," which he calls the "Revelation of the Mystery," which was kept "Secret" since the world began, but now is made "manifest." It was the "revelation" that was promised to Paul at his conversion (Acts 26:16-18), and which comprises the "Mysteries of God."
The "Mysteries" are eleven in number, eight of which were revealed to Paul. Of the remaining three, one was revealed by Christ, and two were revealed to the Apostle John.
A "Mystery" in the New Testament sense is not something that cannot be understood, but is some plan or purpose of God that has been known to Him from the beginning, but which He has withheld from the knowledge of men until the time came for Him to reveal it.

phil36 · Mar 5, 2021

throughfaith said:

Paul says in Ephesians 3:1-9 exactly what I have been telling you....

listen to Paul.. Paul could not be any clearer here:

and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things, 10 so that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. 11 This was according to the eternal purpose that he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord, 12 in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through our faith in him. 13 So I ask you not to lose heart over what I am suffering for you, which is your glory.

We see this mystery unfolding from the very start of scripture:

Gen 3:15 - Did Adam and eve know it was going to be Jesus the son of God.. Possibly not but they believed the promise.

Gen 12; John 8:56;Gal 3:7 -- Did Abraham know exactly how the promise would play out ? possibly not but what does Jesus say - our father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.”

Then we can go on to Moses, david etc etc. As we get closer and closer the picture is revealed more and more until God reveals this 'mystery' That is as Paul says Jesus. This mystery was revealed in Israel and then as time went by out to the whole world. Jews and gentiles alike in Christ Jesus, one people of God.

So you still haven't shown how Jesus taught a different gospel from Paul or that there are two separate gospels.

For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. (Ephesians 2)

throughfaith · Mar 5, 2021

phil36 said:

Yep I definatley agree Christ is not mysterious... he is the revealed mystery.. as Paul says.

------ 26 the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the Lord’s people (Col 1)

We see this mystery unfolding from the very start of scripture:
Gen 3:15 - Did Adam and eve know it was going to be Jesus the son of God.. Possibly not but they believed the promise.

Gen 12; John 8:56;Gal 3:7 -- Did Abraham know exactly how the promise would play out ? possibly not but what does Jesus say - our father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.”

Then we can go on to Moses, david etc etc. As we get closer and closer the picture is revealed more and more until God reveals this 'mystery' That is as Paul says Jesus.

This mystery was revealed in Israel and then as time went by out to the whole world. Jews and gentiles alike in Christ Jesus, one people of God.

So you still haven't shown how Jesus taught a different gospel from Paul or that there are two separate gospels.

For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. (Ephesians 2)

Why do you keep quoting Ephesians 2 ? that's way after the cross . Yes now Paul has revealed the mystery .

throughfaith · Mar 5, 2021

phil36 said:

Paul says in Ephesians 3:1-9 exactly what I have been telling you....

listen to Paul.. Paul could not be any clearer here:

and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things, 10 so that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. 11 This was according to the eternal purpose that he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord, 12 in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through our faith in him. 13 So I ask you not to lose heart over what I am suffering for you, which is your glory.

We see this mystery unfolding from the very start of scripture:

Gen 3:15 - Did Adam and eve know it was going to be Jesus the son of God.. Possibly not but they believed the promise.

Gen 12; John 8:56;Gal 3:7 -- Did Abraham know exactly how the promise would play out ? possibly not but what does Jesus say - our father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.”

Then we can go on to Moses, david etc etc. As we get closer and closer the picture is revealed more and more until God reveals this 'mystery' That is as Paul says Jesus. This mystery was revealed in Israel and then as time went by out to the whole world. Jews and gentiles alike in Christ Jesus, one people of God.

So you still haven't shown how Jesus taught a different gospel from Paul or that there are two separate gospels.

For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. (Ephesians 2)

Why did you Quote verse 26 of col 1 and leave out verse 27 ?

throughfaith · Mar 5, 2021

phil36 said:

Paul says in Ephesians 3:1-9 exactly what I have been telling you....

listen to Paul.. Paul could not be any clearer here:

and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things, 10 so that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. 11 This was according to the eternal purpose that he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord, 12 in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through our faith in him. 13 So I ask you not to lose heart over what I am suffering for you, which is your glory.

We see this mystery unfolding from the very start of scripture:

Gen 3:15 - Did Adam and eve know it was going to be Jesus the son of God.. Possibly not but they believed the promise.

Gen 12; John 8:56;Gal 3:7 -- Did Abraham know exactly how the promise would play out ? possibly not but what does Jesus say - our father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.”

Then we can go on to Moses, david etc etc. As we get closer and closer the picture is revealed more and more until God reveals this 'mystery' That is as Paul says Jesus. This mystery was revealed in Israel and then as time went by out to the whole world. Jews and gentiles alike in Christ Jesus, one people of God.

So you still haven't shown how Jesus taught a different gospel from Paul or that there are two separate gospels.

For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. (Ephesians 2)

26Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

27To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

The Mystery here is' CHRIST IN YOU '
THIS was not made known to men before it was revealed later . No one had CHRIST IN them before the cross and resurrection.

phil36 · Mar 5, 2021

throughfaith said:

Of course it's after the cross, I'm just pointing out the obvious. And this is exactly why your view is untenable. Paul teaches that there is one people of God. Jew and gentile are one in Christ. As Paul says he created one New humanity out of the two (Jew and gentile). This means that there is only one Good news for all people.

throughfaith said:

And col 1:27 is a beautiful verse which was a huge part of the mystery the inclusion of the Gentiles.. Which takes us back nicely to Ephesians :

For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. (Ephesians 2)

So you see, the burden of proof is still with you. You have'nt even shown in scripture that Paul taught a different gospel than Jesus. In fact you have a huge problem Because Paul says that anyone who teaches a different gospel than the one he taught is cursed.

So can you shows where Jesus taught a different gospel than Paul? Or show us where Paul says there a re two peoples of God both following different gospels? The burden of proof is yours.

throughfaith · Mar 5, 2021

phil36 said:

1¶For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2If ye have heard of the DISOENSATION OF THE 'GRACE ' OF GOD which is GIVEN ME to you-ward:
( WHO WAS IT GIVEN TO ? PAUL )
3How that by revelation he made known UNTO ME the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
( SAY WHAT ? GIVEN TO WHO ? ABRAHAM? ISSAC ? JACOB ? PETER ? ANY OF THE 12 ? )

4Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand MY KNOWLEDGE ( IN ) the mystery of Christ)
( SAY WHAT ? WHOS KNOWLEDGE ? )
5Which in other ages WAS NOT MADE KNOWN ( SAY WHAT ?? ) was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is NOW REVEALED ( SAY WHAT !? ) now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

SO HERE WE HAVE IT .

6That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

7Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

8¶Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been HID IN GOD , who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be KNOWN BY THE CHURCH ( SAY WHAT ? ) known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

throughfaith · Mar 5, 2021

phil36 said:

You said////Of course it's after the cross, I'm just pointing out the obvious. And this is exactly why your view is untenable. Paul teaches that there is one people of God. Jew and gentile are one in Christ. As Paul says he created one New humanity out of the two (Jew and gentile). This means that there is only one Good news for all people.//// NOW !!!!!!!!! TODAY !!!!!!!!! AFTER !!!!!!!!! THE CROSS !!!!!! AFTER !!!!!!!! THE RESURECTION !!!!! AFTER !!!! ACTS 2 !!!!!! AFTER CORNELIUS !!!!!!! AFTER PAUL !!!!!!!! AFTER !!!!!!! BUT NOT !!!!!! BEFORE !!!!!!! THIS WAS NOT THE GOOD NEWS THEY WERE PREACHING BEFORE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!BE!!!!!!!!!!!FORE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A gentile had to become a proselyte BEFORE!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE GOOD NEWS TODAY IS ALL CAN COME THROUGH THE GOSPEL OF ' GRACE '

phil36 · Mar 5, 2021

throughfaith said:

Yep fellow heirs of the promise thats us gentiles believers along with the jewish believers.

Yes we know paul was the apostle to gentiles.. but we also know he made it his practice to go to the jews first. But still that does not mean that Paul taught a different gospel. It just means that he was the vessel God used to deliver His Good news to bring the inclusion of Gentiles. Paul labours this in Romae. To make easy to read and understand I included Ephesians 2 below:

For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. (Ephesians 2)

So you see, the burden of proof is still with you. You have'nt even shown in scripture that Paul taught a different gospel than Jesus. In fact you have a huge problem Because Paul says that anyone who teaches a different gospel than the one he taught is cursed.

So can you shows where Jesus taught a different gospel than Paul? Or show us where Paul says there a re two peoples of God both following different gospels? The burden of proof is yours.

throughfaith · Mar 5, 2021

phil36 said:

Of course it's after the cross, I'm just pointing out the obvious. And this is exactly why your view is untenable. Paul teaches that there is one people of God. Jew and gentile are one in Christ. As Paul says he created one New humanity out of the two (Jew and gentile). This means that there is only one Good news for all people.

And col 1:27 is a beautiful verse which was a huge part of the mystery the inclusion of the Gentiles.. Which takes us back nicely to Ephesians :

For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. (Ephesians 2)

So you see, the burden of proof is still with you. You have'nt even shown in scripture that Paul taught a different gospel than Jesus. In fact you have a huge problem Because Paul says that anyone who teaches a different gospel than the one he taught is cursed.

So can you shows where Jesus taught a different gospel than Paul? Or show us where Paul says there a re two peoples of God both following different gospels? The burden of proof is yours.

Good grief man .
Read verse 27 .
The mystery is ' CHRIST IN YOU ' JEW OR GENTILE . NO human being ever had christ IN them prior to the resurrection.

phil36 · Mar 5, 2021

throughfaith said:

Hi throughfaith,

Your obviously not reading the answerss you are getting. I stated this above.

Of course it's after the cross, I'm just pointing out the obvious. And this is exactly why your view is untenable. Paul teaches that there is one people of God. Jew and gentile are one in Christ. As Paul says he created one New humanity out of the two (Jew and gentile). This means that there is only one Good news for all people.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you get it because of Christs life and work (Life, death and resurection), the gentiles have been brought into the citizenship -how does Paul put it?

Ephesians 2

11 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.....

13a But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far......

18-19 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God

21-22 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.

throughfaith · Mar 5, 2021

phil36 said:

Today !!! in christ its both Jews and gentiles. TODAY . AFTER ACTS 7 we see slowly the transition after Israel s final rejections of their messiah. This is when and ONLY when the programme begins to transition . But they are not preaching this good news before . Before its exclusively the disciples preaching ' the kingdom ' to ISRAEL ( Jews and proselytes)
When I say ' preaching ' I mean as we see Paul doing and that is preaching ' christ CRUCIFIED ' and preaching the DBR for our sins . Romans 10.9 ect .
Jesus and the disciples prior to all of the above mentioned are not preaching to both Jews and gentiles alike the death , burial and resurrection for our sins. There not saying
But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

And this is not the case yet .

12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

This is after .

throughfaith · Mar 5, 2021

phil36 said:

Yep fellow heirs of the promise thats us gentiles believers along with the jewish believers.

Yes we know paul was the apostle to gentiles.. but we also know he made it his practice to go to the jews first. But still that does not mean that Paul taught a different gospel. It just means that he was the vessel God used to deliver His Good news to bring the inclusion of Gentiles. Paul labours this in Romae. To make easy to read and understand I included Ephesians 2 below:

For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. (Ephesians 2)

So you see, the burden of proof is still with you. You have'nt even shown in scripture that Paul taught a different gospel than Jesus. In fact you have a huge problem Because Paul says that anyone who teaches a different gospel than the one he taught is cursed.

So can you shows where Jesus taught a different gospel than Paul? Or show us where Paul says there a re two peoples of God both following different gospels? The burden of proof is yours.

that the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Do you see it ?

This is a mystery prior to it being revealed to Paul.

Again .

that the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

By the Gospel. Which Gospel. ? Not the one that was exclusively to the Jews prior to Acts

throughfaith · Mar 5, 2021

phil36 said:

Hi throughfaith,

Your obviously not reading the answerss you are getting. I stated this above.

Of course it's after the cross, I'm just pointing out the obvious. And this is exactly why your view is untenable. Paul teaches that there is one people of God. Jew and gentile are one in Christ. As Paul says he created one New humanity out of the two (Jew and gentile). This means that there is only one Good news for all people.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you get it because of Christs life and work (Life, death and resurection), the gentiles have been brought into the citizenship -how does Paul put it?

Ephesians 2

11 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.....

13a But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far......

18-19 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God

21-22 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.

Yes now !! not before!!
//
Do you get it because of Christs life and work (Life, death and resurection), the gentiles have been brought into the citizenship -how does Paul put it?///

Yes because of the DBR . But this isn't the Good news they are preaching prior to it. There was no good news for the gentile yet . Unless they converted to being a proselyete first .

phil36 · Mar 5, 2021

throughfaith said:

I understand pre cross and after but we'l come back to that.

Who are they? Does this they include Jesus?

throughfaith · Mar 5, 2021

phil36 said:

Jesus mentions it . He explains what WILL happen later. But THEY don't understand and its hid from them . Jesus is not PREACHING what we see Paul PREACHING .
When Jesus is asked how to recieve eternal life he doesn't PREACH " Believe that I have died for your sins ,that I raised from the dead for your justification , that if you believe this i will save you, trust in me for your sins " There is no preaching of Romans 10.9 1 cor 15 1-4 or Ephesians 1.13 .
Can you show one person Jesus preached the death burial and resurrection to and were saved ?
I can show you from Paul.

phil36 · Mar 5, 2021

throughfaith said:

I understand pre cross and after but we'l come back to that.

Who are they? Does this they include Jesus? Is Paul's good news not regarding the good news about the Messiah?

The beginning of the good news about Jesus the Messiah, the Son of God,2 as it is written in Isaiah the prophet:

“I will send my messenger ahead of you,
who will prepare your way”—
3 “a voice of one calling in the wilderness,
‘Prepare the way for the Lord,
make straight paths for him.’

throughfaith · Mar 5, 2021

phil36 said:

I understand pre cross and after but we'l come back to that.

Who are they? Does this they include Jesus? Is Paul's good news not regarding the good news about the Messiah?

The beginning of the good news about Jesus the Messiah, the Son of God,2 as it is written in Isaiah the prophet:

“I will send my messenger ahead of you,
who will prepare your way”—
3 “a voice of one calling in the wilderness,
‘Prepare the way for the Lord,
make straight paths for him.’

Israel. Jews .

In the Truth God is our safety

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