In what way do you believe God specifically shows his love for unrepentant sinners who are in hell?

Pilgrimshope · May 1, 2025

I wrote this some time ago.

Many people get mixed up with words like "forever" and "always" and with phrases like "forever and ever". Wisdom is needed to understand if those words and phrases mean "for all time" (where time comes to an end) or "from age to age" (where ages come to an end) or "for eternity" (which never comes to an end).

Death and Hell are spirits who rule over positions of authority named after them.

At the end of this age, they are thrown into the Lake of Fire.

"And there were open books, and one of them was the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their deeds, as recorded in the books. The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deeds.
Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire.

Being thrown into the Lake of Fire is the second death. People whose names are not in the Lamb's Book of Life are also thrown into the Lake of Fire.

"And if anyone was found whose name was not written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

Revelation goes on to describe the condition of the new age as one where..

"..there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the former things have passed away.”

So there is no death or mourning. Furthermore:

"Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all."

God is "all in all". All that is in the new age with the New Jerusalem will be God.

Long story short: all who opposed the Lord will destroyed absolutely. They do not suffer eternal conscious torment, neither angels or humans are eternal. Their torment, however, will be sufficient for their offenses. They will be destroyed. In the end of the age to come, God will be all in all.

I think I agree with that I think often we need to look at what each covenent said would happen according to the covenant and the people it’s made with it helps a lot to do that

jacko · May 1, 2025

TMS said:

because you are limited by your own knowledge that's why.

jacko · May 1, 2025

not everyone experiences the same torment in hell, you will be judged according to your deeds in this life.

Aaron56 · May 1, 2025

jacko said:

Not good enough. Our Father in heaven actually wants us to know His mind.

Magenta · May 1, 2025

Aaron56 said:

I wrote this some time ago.

Many people get mixed up with words like "forever" and "always" and with phrases like "forever and ever". Wisdom is needed to understand if those words and phrases mean "for all time" (where time comes to an end) or "from age to age" (where ages come to an end) or "for eternity" (which never comes to an end).

Death and Hell are spirits who rule over positions of authority named after them.

At the end of this age, they are thrown into the Lake of Fire.

"And there were open books, and one of them was the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their deeds, as recorded in the books. The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deeds.
Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire.

Being thrown into the Lake of Fire is the second death. People whose names are not in the Lamb's Book of Life are also thrown into the Lake of Fire.

"And if anyone was found whose name was not written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

Revelation goes on to describe the condition of the new age as one where..

"..there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the former things have passed away.”

So there is no death or mourning. Furthermore:

"Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all."

God is "all in all". All that is in the new age with the New Jerusalem will be God.

Long story short: all who opposed the Lord will destroyed absolutely. They do not suffer eternal conscious torment, neither angels or humans are eternal. Their torment, however, will be sufficient for their offenses. They will be destroyed. In the end of the age to come, God will be all in all.

Isaiah 41 verses 11-12, and 29 verse 20, plus 2 Thessalonians 1 verse 9a ~ Behold, all who rage against You will be ashamed and disgraced; those who contend with You will be reduced to nothing and will perish. You will seek them but will not find them. Those who wage war against You will come to nothing. For the ruthless will vanish, the mockers will disappear, and all who look for evil will be cut down. They will suffer the penalty of eternal destruction.

SirSolaScriptura · May 1, 2025

TMS said:

The Papacy did not invent hell.

There is many in New Testament on Hell, Jesus speaking on it extensively.

https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Hell

Before anyone should say, "we don't really know who wrote the gospels or epistles," well we don't really know Moses wrote books in the Old Testament either, we trust that He did! Same with New Testament.

Through we have some reasons to trust the New Testament

The New Testament was written from 48-100 A.D.,
that is close to the time the events happened when Jesus died on cross and rose from the dead in 33 A.D. meaning that people were still alive to be eyewitnesses and talked to.
The books cross reference with both Old Testament Prophets, David's Psalms, and other each other. Jeremiah 34:31-34 speaks of a New Covenant the Lord will make and it will not be like the Law which connects to Luke 22 with Jesus saying "This is the New Covenant in the my Blood."
Jesus being born of Virgin in Luke 2 and Matthew 1 and 2 is supported Isaiah 7:14 that the Messiah must be born of a Virgin.

In contrast, Buddah's writings date 200yrs after his death when Ashoka had them compiled. That is a long time later and no living person who knew Buddah could substatiate that is what he said, while Jesus had eyewitnesses still alive when the New Testament was being written, copied, and sent to the Churches in scrolls.

GWH · May 1, 2025

Pilgrimshope said:

“There are 2 resurrections seperates by 1000 years.”

we would differ here because I don’t take revelation as literal measurements of times and seasons on earth.

“But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i take it to mean an extended period of time, and things like this as a very short period of time also not literally one hour bit representing a very short period of time

“And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:12‬ ‭

i dont think this is saying to look for ten kings who literwlly rule with the beast for an hour. But is saying they will all rule together for a very brief time period with this “ beast “ or this “eighth king who was of the seven. “

If you look closely at the Bible there are two resurrections promised. One in the Old Testament promised to Israel’s faithful saints when the messiah would come to isreal

“Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, and shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live,

and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭37:12-14‬ ‭

And then there’s another resurrection promised to all people of all nations who exist under the new covenant when the messiah returns

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So you have this resurrection in the Old Testament given to israel

“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:52-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

….But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:13, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I believe the first resurrection is the concluding promise of the first testament promise to israel.

and “the thousand year riegn “ is those resurrected saints of the ot in heaven with Jesus after he ascended to heavens throne

That a thousand years simply is representing a very extended and unknown time period between Jesus being taken up into heaven and th e kingdom bieng filled with people in heaven after Jesus went up

“In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

……And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.

( people that have already died and been redeemed are celebrating in heaven but earth is being warned )

Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:5, 10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Rejoice in heaven when’re Gods kingdom and his Christ and these many people now redeemed are bit wor u to those upon earth ….

I don’t believe there’s a literal thousand year reign on earth when Jesus returns he is going to deliver his people from the grave and those still alive and destroy everything left

The thousand years in my opinion is the king period of time those we see there riegn in heaven and Jesus return from heaven to gsther those of the new testement and judge all the world

then he’s promised to restore a new earth and fill it with those people who were saved … or “ found written in the lambs book of life at judgement. “

I don’t read revelation as literal I believe that it is an apacolypse and is several visions based on ot prophecies and not one linear vision or timeline. To be taken literal such as the example of “ten kings having power for one hour “

This to me says a very brief time period as the thousand years says a very long and extended time period like Peter said God is still being orient with people that’s why he hasn’t returned yet. He wants everyone to repent and be saved

“knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:3-4, 8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Peter then describes the lords return and destruction of heaven and earth followed by a promised new earth …. There’s no doctrine anywhere else for any thousand year riegn on earth but it all says when Jesus returns he’s going to destroy the earth delivering his people both living and dead

“Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,

and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:51-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: it is sown a natural body; ( because it’s made for earth )

it is raised a spiritual body. ( it’s made for the spiritual realms of the heavenly )

There is a natural body, ( dies )

and there is a spiritual body.”( raises up )
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:35, 42, 44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And as we have borne the image of the earthy,

we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; ( it’s not of this natural world) neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:49-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I believe Jesus and his saints have been reigning in heaven a long time since the desolation of earths Jerusalem or so

But again it’s just my opinion doesn’t mean I’m right and you are wrong or anything just discussing

Why would you have an opinion you do not believe is right?!
I think what you mean is that what we all share in CC discussions
is our fallible and thus humble opinion about what is the right interpretation of GW.
Right?

Blain · May 1, 2025

Aaron56 said:

To know his mind you need to think like a parent, he was the original parent

Mouse_Cheeks · May 1, 2025

Blain said:

I saw this thread at its start. I read this post and a couple of others and thought the thread would die for lack of interest.

I'm surprised it has received this much interest if the observation above were valid.

TMS · May 1, 2025

jacko said:

Maybe your limited knowledge has prevented you from understanding God.

We are all limited in our understanding but that does not justify unjust actions or unloving deeds

God is Love and love is not eternal punishment.

Not even the Devil has imortal life
All life comes from God. Only God is immortal.
So God can allow any thing that has life to die.

Love does not keep things alive to torture them.
Eze 18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.
If God has no pleasure in death, He does not has pleasure in torturing.

Blain · May 1, 2025

Mouse_Cheeks said:

The topic of the thread got off point and @Intersection has been much less active not to mention if the above is valid he got what he desired from it people already know him by his fruits but engage anyways for one reason or another I am guilty of this too

I think if it did die then the above would be wrong because it is the responces he is after

TMS · May 1, 2025

SirSolaScriptura said:

But look up the original meaning of the word... what the writers were saying.

And what this generation thinks is not the same

The concept of a burning place for a soul was introduced

The original words were Hades and Gehenna, they did not mean an eternal place of torment.

Mouse_Cheeks · May 1, 2025

TMS said:

Wouldn't our after life place for the souls of unrepentant sinners have to comport with the Jewish scriptures description?

Magenta · May 1, 2025

Mouse_Cheeks said:

It did kind of veer off a little into discussions about what hell is according to Scripture...

That was warranted, I think .

. Though I do not believe OP took part in any of that...

Mouse_Cheeks said:

See post number 165 above. That was the OT view. There are many parallel verses.

Proverbs 10 verse 25~ When the whirlwind passes, the wicked is no more, but the righteous has an everlasting foundation.

Magenta · May 1, 2025

Romans 6 verse 23~ The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Mem · May 1, 2025

Aaron56 said:

I wrote this some time ago.

Many people get mixed up with words like "forever" and "always" and with phrases like "forever and ever". Wisdom is needed to understand if those words and phrases mean "for all time" (where time comes to an end) or "from age to age" (where ages come to an end) or "for eternity" (which never comes to an end).

Death and Hell are spirits who rule over positions of authority named after them.

At the end of this age, they are thrown into the Lake of Fire.

"And there were open books, and one of them was the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their deeds, as recorded in the books. The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deeds.
Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire.

Being thrown into the Lake of Fire is the second death. People whose names are not in the Lamb's Book of Life are also thrown into the Lake of Fire.

"And if anyone was found whose name was not written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

Revelation goes on to describe the condition of the new age as one where..

"..there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the former things have passed away.”

So there is no death or mourning. Furthermore:

"Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all."

God is "all in all". All that is in the new age with the New Jerusalem will be God.

Long story short: all who opposed the Lord will destroyed absolutely. They do not suffer eternal conscious torment, neither angels or humans are eternal. Their torment, however, will be sufficient for their offenses. They will be destroyed. In the end of the age to come, God will be all in all.

And so, there will not be anyone nor anything that is Godless anymore!

Magenta · May 1, 2025

Job 4 verses 17-20 Can a mortal be more righteous than God, or a man more pure than his Maker? If God puts no trust in His servants, and He charges His angels with error, how much more those who dwell in houses of clay, whose foundations are in the dust, who can be crushed like a moth! They are smashed to pieces from dawn to dusk; unnoticed, they perish forever.

SirSolaScriptura · May 2, 2025

TMS said:

I can give you a direct one then,
"Then the king will say to those on his left, "Get away from me! You are under God's curse. Go into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels!" (Matthew 25:41) and "They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 13:42). Matt 13:42 confirms the Outer Darkness and Gnashing of Teeth are the Fiery Furnace that is translated hell, and the Lake of Fire in Revelation.

HeIsHere · May 2, 2025

TMS said:

I'll give one verse...
Modern thinking has twisted people's thinking but you need to read the Bible as it was written, in true context... but people only see with modern corrupted filters on their eyes...

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Everlasting punishment.....

Does it mean they will burn with flames for ever, be punished forever, and recieve eternal life from God to suffer forever???

Or is Jesus saying everlasting punishment.
The punishment is everlasting.
Notice He didn't say punished forever.
The punishment of sin is death. That is clear. So Jesus was clearly saying...
"Everlasting death"

But people don't want to see it that way
They would rather believe the lie of the devil. "You shall surely not die"

Jesus is saying everlasting death and the the devil is saying everlasting life for the wicked...
Which one are you supporting?

Which Greek word is "everlasting?"

Pilgrimshope · May 2, 2025

GWH said:

I’m not one of these people who imagined I Can’t be wrong . Have been and probably will be again. A lot of folks don’t believe it’s possible what they think could be wrong . I’m too old i I or better been proven wrong before and may be again

bottom line i dont think anyone here is always right for including myself

I didn’t say I was wrong , what I said was that’s what I believe but that doesn’t mean I’m right . Seems like a good expression of my position

In what way do you believe God specifically shows his love for unrepentant sinners who are in hell?

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