Is abortion murder?

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DannyC

Guest
I'm still undecided whether I'm pro-life or pro-choice, it's a tough question.
 

Nautilus

Senior Member
Jun 29, 2012
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Yet a miscarriage is far different than an induced abortion. One is beyond the mothers control. The other is forced.
They are actually referred to as spontaneous abortions as well. The name is justnot used as much due to the denotation it receives from clinical abortions.
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
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By the way:

Can you find a single use of the word "moral" or "morality" in the Holy Bible except this one?

[SUP]James 1:21 [/SUP]Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you.


Probably the word "moral" was invented by the devil to deceive you! :)
Moral filth refers to lack of morals. "morals" are not from the devil.


Morality (from the Latin moralitas "manner, character, proper behavior") is the differentiation of intentions, decisions, and actionsbetween those that are "good" (or right) and those that are "bad" (or wrong). The philosophy of morality is ethics. A moral code is a system of morality (according to a particular philosophy, religion, culture, etc.) and a moral is any one practice or teaching within a moral code. Morality may also be specifically synonymous with "goodness" or "rightness." Immorality is the active opposition to morality (i.e. opposition to that which is good or right), while amorality is variously defined as an unawareness of, indifference toward, or disbelief in any set of moral standards or principles.[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP][SUP][4][/SUP] An example of a moral code is the Golden Rule which states that, "One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself."[SUP][5]


[/SUP]
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
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They are actually referred to as spontaneous abortions as well. The name is justnot used as much due to the denotation it receives from clinical abortions.
Yes, I know. PEople freak when they hear "abortion"
"Abort" means termination. Not always induced. Miscarriage is easier to spell, and type though ;)
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
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So, we have two reliable sources. One says 15-20% and the other says 50-70%. Hmm. And you consider BOTH of them to be reliable?

Do me a favor. Look in the mirror, and tell yourself that what you said is reasonable.
My own obstetrician told me when I was pregnant that a large number of pregnancies terminate on their own(naturally). It is true. Most doctors refer to it as a normal part of reproduction. The woman's body just pretty much rejects it. This is also a common reason for ectopic pregnancy.These pregnancies are alot more common than people think
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
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Look, at least you are trying not to judge and that in the most important aspect, the salvation. Otherwise I could accuse you of sinning against the Holy Spirit.

But what else than judgement is the following: "Your arguments show a tremendous lack of discernment, biblical illiteracy, and a hardness of heart dulling the Spirit of Christ"?

Why do you explicitly disobey Jesus? Because He said:

Matthew 7:7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged.For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

I am bringing arguments to underline my opinion. Did I ever judge your opinion? Where are your arguments which support your opinion?


I wonder how your "moral" handles this which was explicitly the will of God:

1 Samuel 15:1Samuel said to Saul,
“I am the one the Lord sent to anoint you king
over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the Lord. 2This is what the
Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the
Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up
from Egypt. 3Now go, attack the
Amalekites and totally destroy[SUP]a[/SUP] everything that belongs to them. Do not
spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep,
camels and donkeys.’”
Jesus never said for us NOT to judge. He told us HOW to judge. We can judge righteously. Not be hypocritical. Make sure our slate is clean before we talk to another person about their sins. We are to fix ourselves first.
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
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Right. One is "god's" abortion, the other is the mother's. So since god is doing it, does that give us the ok to go?
I don't know. God allowed people to crucify his son. Does that mean we should crucify our own the same way.

He also destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for sin like homosexuality. Does that mean we should kill gay people or anyone who has comitted a sexual sin of any sort?

Death is the result of sin. Not God. Death came into the world when sin entered. God gives life. Since he gives life who are we to intentionally take it away?

These two example are because of SIN.
 
Feb 23, 2013
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Jesus never said for us NOT to judge. He told us HOW to judge. We can judge righteously. Not be hypocritical. Make sure our slate is clean before we talk to another person about their sins. We are to fix ourselves first.
Matthew 7:7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged."
Jesus never said for us NOT to judge? Really? :confused:
 
Feb 23, 2013
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In the 1st century the apostles were imprisoned and killed for breaking the law. They were told by Jesus to spread the Gospel. Roman emperors persecuted many because Christians would not bow to them.
Should the apostles, and primitive Christians have gone against Jesus, and obeyed the law instead of preaching the Word?
As I said before: saying the truth is not disobeying a government or God but doing what is forbidden is, including any insurrection!

So, preaching the word which is truth, even if forbidden by a government, is not disobeying the government!
 

willfollowsGod

Senior Member
Apr 14, 2011
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in-God-we-trust, please read the whole of Matthew 7 and it is talking about judging about something when you have the same problem. You can judge but in gentleness, love, and respect for the other person's views but there are times when you have to say that something is wrong and it is wrong. So you do have to do it as a Christian, but not in a negative way, but pointing what might be the weakness or area that they are wrong. If they see that they are wrong and change from that view, fine. If they see that they are wrong or do not want to change from that view, then even when they are showed that they are wrong, they might not change and they are still wrong. God bless, love the fellowship with other believers on this Christian Chat.
 
Feb 23, 2013
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in-God-we-trust, please read the whole of Matthew 7 and it is talking about judging about something when you have the same problem. You can judge but in gentleness, love, and respect for the other person's views but there are times when you have to say that something is wrong and it is wrong. So you do have to do it as a Christian, but not in a negative way, but pointing what might be the weakness or area that they are wrong. If they see that they are wrong and change from that view, fine. If they see that they are wrong or do not want to change from that view, then even when they are showed that they are wrong, they might not change and they are still wrong. God bless, love the fellowship with other believers on this Christian Chat.
You are right! Saying the truth can never be forbidden! But, saying the truth is not judging. Saying the truth is a mere statement. Judging is condemnation to prison or death penalty or worse!
 

superdave5221

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2009
1,409
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I guess all i have to say now is... Science its still useful
Fiber-optic photographs of these little ones have disclosed to us what exquisitely beautiful and delicate marvels of creation they are. One physician describes his experience of seeing firsthand one of these eight-week-old little ones:

Years ago, while giving an anesthetic for a ruptured tubal pregnancy (at two months), I was handed what I believed to be the smallest human being ever seen. The embryo sac was intact and transparent. Within the sac was a tiny human male swimming extremely vigorously in the amniotic fluid, while attached to the wall of the umbilical cord. This tiny human was perfectly developed with long, tapering fingers, feet and toes. It was almost transparent as regards the skin, and the delicate arteries and veins were prominent to the end of the fingers. The baby was extremely alive and did not look at all like the photos and drawings of "embryos" which I had seen. When the sac was opened, the tiny human immediately losts its life and took on the appearance of what is accepted as the appearance of an embryo at this stage, blunt extremities, ect.

No one who has seen photographs of infants in the womb between eight and twelve weeks old can honestly deny that here we have a human baby.

The above is from the book, Hard Questions Real Answers, by William Lane Craig.

Yes, I agree that science is useful. And any real scientist, who is not promoting an agenda, will have to admit:

1. Any baby aborted between eight and twelve weeks, (when most babies are aborted), is a real human being

2. A baby is NOT part of it's mothers body, but a separate entity, having it's own DNA, organs, brain, heart, and will to live, existing on it's mother's life support, but not an organ or disease to be excised and destroyed at the whims of an immoral court system, or as a convenient birth control mechanism.
 
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psychomom

Guest
and any mother who has delivered (miscarriage) at 12-14 weeks can tell you it's a human being.

me: honey, the doc said we have to put her in the frig till tomorrow.

husband: but I can't...it's cold in there...:(

i haven't waded through all these pages, but really?
25 pages on a Christian site debating whether or not abortion is murder?

k...
 
Feb 23, 2013
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...This discussion is still going on?
Yes, it is going on and on.

Maybe it is so, because it is highly controversial and does not follow common political patterns.

I admire the republican party and their recent presidents Ronald Reagan, George Bush sen., George W. Bush jun., I like even Sarah Palin!

But I do not understand, why some are so picky about abortion. Abortion within the proper time frame and approved by government shuld not be a problem at all. Why can people wish to make life even more complicated than it still is now? That about the praxis.

But in theory you may still maintain abortion is not good. I have no problem with that opinion either.
 
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Feb 23, 2013
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Luckily we live in countries where we can express our opinion freely. I rejoice about that and thank God for this wonder He accomplished!