Is all scripture plain to understand?

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Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#21
VII. All things in Scripture are not alike plain in themselves, nor alike clear unto all:(p) yet those things which are necessary to be known, believed, and observed for salvation, are so clearly propounded and opened in some place of Scripture or other, that not only the learned, but the unlearned, in a due use of the ordinary means, may attain unto a sufficient understanding of them.(q)

(p) II Pet. 3:16.
(q) Psalm 119:105, 130.



Would you agree with the above statement? why or why not?
What catacism is that from?
I agree that not all scripture is clear to all. I think it's clear even in this community, that some prophecy is heavily debated, and therefore not readily clear.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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#22


Peter and Paul both preached the gospel of grace in Christ Jesus... Amen


Peter

38 Peter replied, “Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

39 This promise is to you, to your children, and to those far awayall who have been called by the Lord our God.”

40 Then Peter continued preaching for a long time, strongly urging all his listeners, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation!”


Paul

21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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#23
What catacism is that from?
I agree that not all scripture is clear to all. I think it's clear even in this community, that some prophecy is heavily debated, and therefore not readily clear.

Its from the Westminster Confession of Faith. The Baptist confession (1689) is similar except for baptism and church governance etc obviously lol.

I find we can learn a lot from what Christians have said about scripture before us (we stand on their shoulders).. even if we don't agree with everything they say.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
3,537
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#24
VII. All things in Scripture are not alike plain in themselves, nor alike clear unto all:(p) yet those things which are necessary to be known, believed, and observed for salvation, are so clearly propounded and opened in some place of Scripture or other, that not only the learned, but the unlearned, in a due use of the ordinary means, may attain unto a sufficient understanding of them.(q)

(p) II Pet. 3:16.
(q) Psalm 119:105, 130.



Would you agree with the above statement? why or why not?
I think God decides what we are capable of handling and as we grow he allows more understanding to come in . He speaks often using the example of trees or plants

receiving a seed , enduring receiving the light and water over time produces healthy trees with good fruit

but if we could understand it intellectually speaking then we would be accountable to all of it

faith works over time it grows my belief is the at as we grow God allows more understanding in and helps us grasp it so that we don’t become complacent and we are always stretching forth and growing into better people being renewed in our understanding and then use of what we learn

to summarize I believe it’s a profession that is determined by the lord how much he allows to be placed upon us responsibility wise

we begin as children , children don’t understand everything their parents said but they accept and believe it if thier parents are worthy of that

but a parent doesn’t explain drugs and alcohol or warfare to a baby, the parent first teaches them the basics . I believe for our good he allows us to grow at his pace as he corrects and strengthens us then he allows more in and so on

I believe this is the process the Bible speaks of as being changed into his image from glory to Glory if we persevere in the faith
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#25
Its from the Westminster Confession of Faith. The Baptist confession (1689) is similar except for baptism and church governance etc obviously lol.

I find we can learn a lot from what Christians have said about scripture before us (we stand on their shoulders).. even if we don't agree with everything they say.
Agreed. If you like stuff like that you should check out the Augsburg Confessions.
I'm presently reading Luther's small catacism, and the large Catacism kind of parallel.
I find what the pastor's of old who faced different adversities very insightful.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,468
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#26
Peter and Paul both preached the gospel of grace in Christ Jesus... Amen


Peter

38 Peter replied, “Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

39 This promise is to you, to your children, and to those far awayall who have been called by the Lord our God.”

40 Then Peter continued preaching for a long time, strongly urging all his listeners, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation!”


Paul

21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.
You think Acts 2.38 is the 'Gospel of grace ' ? You probably think Acts 3 .19 is the' Gospel of grace also ?Is luke 9.6 the same ?
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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#27
but a parent doesn’t explain drugs and alcohol or warfare to a baby, the parent first teaches them the basics . I believe for our good he allows us to grow at his pace as he corrects and strengthens us then he allows more in and so on

Good analogy Pilgrimshope(y)
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
7,797
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#28
Agreed. If you like stuff like that you should check out the Augsburg Confessions.
I'm presently reading Luther's small catacism, and the large Catacism kind of parallel.
I find what the pastor's of old who faced different adversities very insightful.

I've read parts in the past but I will have to one day sit down and go through it more completely, Its good for learning. (y)

Yeas i agree we can definitely learn from those who have come before us(y)
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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#29
You think Acts 2.38 is the 'Gospel of grace ' ? You probably think Acts 3 .19 is the' Gospel of grace also ?Is luke 9.6 the same ?

So are you saying the Apostle Peter is teaching a different gospel than Paul? What did Paul say about those that taught a different gospel to his?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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#30
So are you saying the Apostle Peter is teaching a different gospel than Paul? What did Paul say about those that taught a different gospel to his?
Yes exactly ,Paul said a different one from HIS . That's why WE shouldn't be preaching Luke 9.6 and Acts 2.38 today .
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#31
Yes exactly ,Paul said a different one from HIS . That's why WE shouldn't be preaching Luke 9.6 and Acts 2.38 today .
So there is more than one gospel?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#32
You think Acts 2.38 is the 'Gospel of grace ' ? You probably think Acts 3 .19 is the' Gospel of grace also ?Is luke 9.6 the same ?
So acts 2 38 is not the gospel of grace?

wow man this is a scary though that you do not believe we must repent in order to be saved,
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,468
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#33
Peter and Paul both preached the gospel of grace in Christ Jesus... Amen


Peter

38 Peter replied, “Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

39 This promise is to you, to your children, and to those far awayall who have been called by the Lord our God.”

40 Then Peter continued preaching for a long time, strongly urging all his listeners, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation!”


Paul

21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.
/// 38 Peter replied, “Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of/// which translation is this ??
Is this is how a person is saved today ?
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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#34
/// 38 Peter replied, “Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of/// which translation is this ??
Is this is how a person is saved today ?


What you don't believe that you need to repent of your sins to saved? Do you not agree with Jesus?

Jesus

46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. (Luke 24:46-48)


Peter

8 Peter replied, “Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

39 This promise is to you, to your children, and to those far awayall who have been called by the Lord our God.”

40 Then Peter continued preaching for a long time, strongly urging all his listeners, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation!”


Paul

21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,468
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#35
What you don't believe that you need to repent of your sins to saved? Do you not agree with Jesus?

Jesus

46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. (Luke 24:46-48)


Peter

8 Peter replied, “Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

39 This promise is to you, to your children, and to those far awayall who have been called by the Lord our God.”

40 Then Peter continued preaching for a long time, strongly urging all his listeners, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation!”


Paul

21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.
Let's look at Acts 2.38 in a actual bible.
38¶Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Ok ,observation questions .
1) Who is Peter speaking to ?

2 ) What is he telling Israel they have done ? Peter spends nearly the entire chapter telling ' ISRAEL ' ,what they have done and what THEY need to DO
3 ) Notice the order ,which contradicts the order Paul gives in his definition and explanation of how we are saved .

4 ) Acts is a TRANSITIONAL book . This is obvious to any bible believer who notices 29 conversion accounts in the Acts of the apostles .

5) throw out the awful translation your using .
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
7,797
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#36
Let's look at Acts 2.38 in a actual bible.
38¶Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Ok ,observation questions .
1) Who is Peter speaking to ?

2 ) What is he telling Israel they have done ? Peter spends nearly the entire chapter telling ' ISRAEL ' ,what they have done and what THEY need to DO
3 ) Notice the order ,which contradicts the order Paul gives in his definition and explanation of how we are saved .

4 ) Acts is a TRANSITIONAL book . This is obvious to any bible believer who notices 29 conversion accounts in the Acts of the apostles .

5) throw out the awful translation your using .






Lets start with Jesus:


Jesus

46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. (Luke 24:46-48)
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,468
1,591
113
#37
What you don't believe that you need to repent of your sins to saved? Do you not agree with Jesus?

Jesus

46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. (Luke 24:46-48)


Peter

8 Peter replied, “Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

39 This promise is to you, to your children, and to those far awayall who have been called by the Lord our God.”

40 Then Peter continued preaching for a long time, strongly urging all his listeners, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation!”


Paul

21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.
' repent of your sins ' is found no where in the bible. ( A proper translation, that is )
What we do find is this.
Acts 20:21

“Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.”

This is not ' repent of your sins "

Neither is Acts 2 38 talking about turning from sins ' repenting of sins ' ' stopping sins ' feeling really really really sorry for sins ' doing penance ' . Its not referring to sins as in lying ,cheating, stealing , murdering ect . No Peter is talking to law observing, pork abstaining, sabbath keeping Jews . What THEY need to DO is ' change their minds ( repent ) from believing Jesus was a criminal deserving of death ,to being thier messiah .

The order given in Acts 2.38 is not the Gospel of grace Paul preached .
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
7,797
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#38
' repent of your sins ' is found no where in the bible. ( A proper translation, that is )
What we do find is this.
Acts 20:21

“Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.”

This is not ' repent of your sins "

Neither is Acts 2 38 talking about turning from sins ' repenting of sins ' ' stopping sins ' feeling really really really sorry for sins ' doing penance ' . Its not referring to sins as in lying ,cheating, stealing , murdering ect . No Peter is talking to law observing, pork abstaining, sabbath keeping Jews . What THEY need to DO is ' change their minds ( repent ) from believing Jesus was a criminal deserving of death ,to being thier messiah .

The order given in Acts 2.38 is not the Gospel of grace Paul preached .


So you are saying Jesus taught a gospel of works righteousness?