Is Baptism necessary for Salvation?

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Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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Haven't you heard? Jesus dealt with it. On the cross. After living a sinless life to fulfill the
requirements of the law.
"Behold the Lamb of God Who takes away the sin of the world."
He sure does take away the sin of the world. He made the atonement, and told everyone how to have their sins remitted because of it. Acts 1 states that after Jesus' ascension He gave his apostles commands via the Holy Ghost. Therefore, it was Jesus who inspired Peter to present the requirements that afforded individual's remission of their personal sin in accordance with His sacrifice.
 
May 22, 2020
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When He had by offering Himself accomplished our cleansing of sins and
riddance of guilt, He sat down at the right hand of the divine Majesty on high,
^ Hebrews 1:3 [AMPC]


The Son is the light of God’s glory and the imprint of God’s being. He maintains
everything with his powerful message. After he carried out the cleansing of people
from their sins, he sat down at the right side of the highest majesty. [CEB]


Yochanan I 1:9
If we make vidduy (confession of sin) of chattoteinu (our sins), he is ne’eman (faithful) and
tzaddik to grant selicha (forgiveness) of chattoteinu (our sins) and give us tohorah (purification,
cleansing) from kol avon. [DEVARIM 32:4; TEHILLIM 32:5; 51:2; MISHLE 28:13; MICHOH 7:18-20]


who being the brightness of the glory, and the impress of His subsistence, bearing
up also the all things by the saying of his might -- through himself having made a
cleansing of our sins, sat down at the right hand of the greatness in the highest, [YLT]


See? Jesus accomplished that. Not you being dipped or sprinkled or dunked.

I checked multiple versions; "sin cleansing" was not found.

You would do well to not put words in Jesus' mouth.

Feel free to X Scripture as you normally do...

Stop game playing...what did Christ say to John?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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OT foreshadows always point to NT realities.
The High Priest would be immersed in the mikvah before his services in the Holy Temple.

The mikvah had to have living water in it.


Jesus is our High Priest.

He only had to offer His sacrifice once.

 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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show me scriptures...not just one.
I showed you a number of Scriptures. None say what you claim.

Stop game playing...
This is your response to being shown the words you claim Jesus said were lies from your lips. Shame on you.

I recommend not putting words into Jesus' mouth.
 
May 22, 2020
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Definitely not the words you claim He said.

Your lack of understanding is not surprising.
You need to leave the art world and study the meaning similarity of words. That way maybe you would get one of them right.

Matt; 3; 14-15

In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
2And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
3For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
4And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.
5Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,
6And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.
7But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
9And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
10And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
11I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
12Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
13Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.


14But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

15And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

( Fullfilling all righteousness certainly includes ...sin cleansing).

Now what is your problem...... Play games other places not with me.






16And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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Wrong. Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness. In your mind, and belief system, He did not do that.
I don’t think Jesus meant that He was getting water baptized to fulfill all righteousness for us, but rather He did it because it’s necessary even for Jesus to do everything God requires, but there was more for Him to do being the Lamb of God.

It’s also necessary for us as regular people to do all that God requires.

The life of Jesus serves as an example to us so we should walk as He walked. I believe Jesus said God requires water baptism.

The NLT words it like this:

John 3:15 NLT
15But Jesus said, “It should be done, for we must carry out all that God requires.” So John agreed to baptize him.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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You need to leave the art world and study the meaning similarity of words. That way maybe you would get one of them right.
Start with simple words, like "for," for instance.

Ponder these words, and see if you can comprehend, finally, the meaning of them:

A medal received for bravery does not bestow bravery.

If you do not understand, I will not be surprised.

Plus, I still recommend you stop putting words in Jesus' mouth.
 
P

Polar

Guest
Apart from the belief that water baptism removes sin, peldom also believes one must follow the commandments. Even though that never saved one soul, perhaps the combination of following OT commandments and water washing works differently.

And yet he will tell you that salvation is not by works.
So you deny your own words? Should people maybe say do not put words in your own mouth?

The pettiness of your responses here, indicate your inability to actually secure reasonable and scriptural proof of your false claims

A simple search of your posts reveals how far you have removed yourself from credible understanding of the Bible.

You believe works save which means a person must continue to 'prove' themself saved. That, is not what we find in scripture
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Do you think YOU can fulfill all righteousness? Good luck with that.

What we do is put on the righteousness of Christ. He fulfilled all righteousness
despite your pretensions to the contrary. We clothe ourselves in HIS righteousness.
By grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.


If for some reason someone is unable to be water baptized after coming to belief and having
faith in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sins, the salvation
of their soul, and to be reconciled to God, having repented of their rebellion against God, and

being adopted into God's family, then they will not lose their salvation for want of physical water,
when Jesus Christ gives them water that will become in them a spring welling up to eternal life.


Jesus said so :)

Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of
his heart will flow rivers of living water.’”
John 7:38

Jesus said to her, “Everyone who drinks of this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks
of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will
become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”
John 4:13b-14

And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end.
To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment."
Rev 21:6

The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one
who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price.
Rev 22:17

With joy you will draw water from the wells of salvation. Isa 12:3

@peldom10 X'd this ^ earlier :oops:Scripture seems to make him cantankerous.

Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal,
flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb. Rev 22:1


On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice,
“Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as
Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”
By this He
meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive.
John 7:37-39a

They shall hunger no more, neither thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any
scorching heat. For the Lamb in the midst of the throne will be their shepherd, and He will
guide them to springs of living water, and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.
Rev 7:16-17


Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that is saying to you,
‘Give me a drink,’ you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water.”

John 4:10
 
P

Polar

Guest
NO...you show where the Bible says ...YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE BAPTIZED. Then we will talk.

Wow...what a statement.
That takes takes the leftest trophy for the most stupid type statement ever made.
No one has said we do not have or should not be baptized. It is a lie every single time you say that.
 
P

Polar

Guest
So correct.
Additionally...without sin..Christ presented Himself for baptism explaining that it is for ...sin cleansing.

To those who don't follow God's word....go tell.
So here we see again peldom expresses the thought that Jesus needed 'sin cleansing'

So, what sins were those? What sins did Jesus commit?
 
P

Polar

Guest
Stop game playing...what did Christ say to John?
Do you have short term memory loss? Just go back to where you x'ed yet another post of mine wherein I included scripture and you will find what was said.

You are not capable of honesty or else you would admit that you have not understood baptism.
 
P

Polar

Guest
You are adept at recognizing major points for clarity. That is correct.

It is a challenge indeed, to achieve getting anti baptism advocates to explain their position.
Maybe any time we can get a brake through.
The many new interpretations of the Bible...since the 1960's ......is amazing but, fits with end time scriptures saying...."in the end times there will great deceptions"....they are here and more on the way, assuredly.
I bet it is hard because there are none responding to you. Do you know what the Bible says about liars? It's not a good ending. Perhaps you should try harder to tell that truth that is so evasive for you.

Who are you talking about? Can you show the post? Just show who said what you claim.
 
P

Polar

Guest
........................................................................................


If a person makes such statements, they need to prove what they say. I have not personally noticed one person in this thread doing what peldom claims. Prove who said what you claim peldom.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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I bet it is hard because there are none responding to you. Do you know what the Bible says about liars? It's not a good ending. Perhaps you should try harder to tell that truth that is so evasive for you.

Who are you talking about? Can you show the post? Just show who said what you claim.
They will not be able to show such a post, because they do not exist.

It is evidence of their lack of discernment.

And since they (and some of their ilk) cannot tell the difference, claiming people saying water baptism is not a requirement for salvation, confusing it with and erroneously assuming and further falsely accusing us of being anti baptism, it is hard to trust that they have any real comprehension of Scripture at all, when such a simple matter eludes their understanding completely.

If a person makes such statements, they need to prove what they say. I have not personally noticed one person in this thread doing what peldom claims. Prove who said what you claim peldom.
He cannot.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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As far as forgiveness of sins goes, Jesus Christ becomes our righteousness but He didn’t do a substitutionary water baptism for us. He paid the penalty that we were due. In that sense He fulfilled a righteousness that we can’t do.

I think Jesus does believe we can be perfect, thus there’s a reason why we walk in new life, consciously choosing to obey God or disobey God every day. Clearly God expects us to do righteousness things ourselves.

Matthew 5:44-48
44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

In order to “put on Christ” water baptism is required. I get it, it’s a physical action and you seem to have a problem with that, but I don’t think God has a problem with us actually having to be obedient to Him because we live on a physical world where physical actions are required.

Born again children of God by faith and water baptism:
Galatians 3:26,27
26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Born again children of God by faith and water baptism:
John 3:5
5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Born again children of God by faith and water baptism:
John 1:12,13
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

To receive Jesus means to receive everything about Him, including the things He said, and all of His commandments such as water baptism.

Perhaps Acts 19 is a good example of how faith alone does not impart the Holy Spirit on someone, but rather faith and water baptism into Christ:

Acts 19:1-7
1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 7And all the men were about twelve.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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They will not be able to show such a post, because they do not exist
You mean a post where someone was saying I had misrepresented someone’s stance about water baptism? It doesn’t exist, but two people proceeded to call me a liar repeatedly over the course of several pages anyway. I assure you those posts slandering me will never go away, but who cares.

Or how about the posts where I support water baptism because the Bible supports it, then someone proceeds to talk about how I am inspired by something dark when actually God promised to give me His Holy Spirit. Do I need to remind people to be careful about assigning evil to the Spirit that inspires people?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,299
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You mean a post where someone was saying I had misrepresented someone’s stance about water baptism? It doesn’t exist, but two people proceeded to call me a liar repeatedly over the course of several pages anyway. I assure you those posts slandering me will never go away, but who cares.

Or how about the posts where I support water baptism because the Bible supports it, then someone proceeds to talk about how I am inspired by something dark when actually God promised to give me His Holy Spirit. Do I need to remind people to be careful about assigning evil to the Spirit that inspires people?
Did you not see who those posts were directed to? :oops: