Is eternal torment in hell fire Biblical

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MarkWilliams

Active member
Jun 13, 2018
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#41
I cannot in any way grasp that eternal death means eternal life of torment. My mind can NOT grasp the thought.
I'm sure you have no problem grasping the fact that God is eternal, just as the universe is eternally big and has no end. So you could apply that truth to the doctrine of hell as well
 
Nov 12, 2015
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#42
I still believe the overwhelming evidence points us to Gods everlasting judgement of unrepentant sinners. There are just too many examples in the Bible describing hell as a place of everlasting punishment for sin.

I would say Gods eternal unlimited love and eternal unlimited wrath, are both His attributes. It seems we have no problem accepting His boundless love but we just can't accept His boundless justice.
I think we can't use our own sense of justice and apply it to God, for God is infinitely more just. So I don't think we are in a position to disagree with anything God does.
To be eternally dead IS an everlasting judgement. It is a judgement that will never be reversed and with no hope of ever being reversed.
To be dead and never to rise again IS an eternal judgement.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
463
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#43
I'm sure you have no problem grasping the fact that God is eternal, just as the universe is eternally big and has no end. So you could apply that truth to the doctrine of hell as well
God gave us basic understanding of right and wrong. Sentencing someone to burn alive forever is not justice in anyone’s book.

The Bible clearly states that the wages of sin is death.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#44
im an attorney by trade - one of the most often used terms is "to weigh the evidence" At no time did Jesus say that one would burn in hell forever. dont conflict the term everlasting lake of fire with everlasting punishment -
Spartanmd,

The great white throne judgment, which takes place after the millennial period, is a judgment for the unrighteous dead throughout all of history to be held accountable for all of their sins. The church will have already been judged at the Bema seat of Christ after the resurrection takes place to receive reward or loss of reward and not for sin. The righteous do not appear for judgment at the great white throne.

the parable of the rich man and poor Lazarus was just that a parable the last of five that he taught on that day.
The rich man and Lazarus is an actual event which Jesus is revealing to those reading. Parables use symbolism to represent what is literal. The rich man and Lazarus uses the real names of Abraham, Lazarus, Moses and the literal place of Hades. You people call this a parable and then ask for proof, which you get rid of by making it a parable.

why didn't the disciples or Christ simply state that if you don't accept Christ you will burn in hell forever - answer - it wasnt a doctrine known to them.
The Lord along with the disciples did teach eternal torment in everlasting fire. You just keep getting rid of the evidence!

"depart from me you who are cursed into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels." The emphasis of "everlasting fire" is on those souls who will be suffering in it. Once again, here is the scripture regarding those who worship the beast, his image and receive his mark:

"A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name."

First of all, the scripture states that, the wrath that they will suffer will be poured out full strength, which means that there will be no mercy mixed in with it. And second, that they will be torment with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and the Lamb, would require those being torment to be existing in order to experience said torment/torture. And third, the scripture states that "the smoke of their torment will rise up forever and ever and they will have no rest day or night," which would also require those being tormented to be existing in order to experience said torment day and night.

the hell doctrine is a conglomeration of Coptic Egyptian , Greek and Roman doctrines that crept into the early church and wasn't codified until Charlemagne who by the way said it was and used it as a tool to control the church. They imagery many have of hell ca be traced back to the writing of Dante's Inferno - The Catholics picked up on that hard :)
The doctrine of Hell is proclaimed in the word of God. The above is just another repeated false apologetic.

That's where religion misses the mark so terribly - A Christian does what is right because he loves God and strives to please Him. If your doing what is right because you fear hell then you need to examine your heart. Using hell as a bullwhip to herd non believers through a church door isn't just wrong it evil. The Love of God and the Sacrifice of His only Son along with the Gentle prodding of the Holy Spirit was good enough for the early church and its good enough today
You misunderstand! Hell is not a bullwhip for believers, but a warning to unbelievers. For the word of God says, "whoever has the Son, has life. But whoever does not have the Son does not have life and the wrath of God rests upon that person.

I get back to weighing the evidence - I have and I come down firmly on that side that those not found in the lambs book of life are either .killed (the second death) or punished (different degrees of punishment) The evidence that persuades me IS the nature of God - his justice would not permit such a disproportionate retribution i know that and somewhere deep down you know that because the Holy Spirit tells you so. and his love - God IS Love - period - where in the sermon on the mount did Jesus teach that love gets payback? where in that sermon did Jesus teach that Love is paused by wrath?
At the time of death, the love, grace and mercy of God ceases for those who have died rejecting Christ and are therefore in their sins. Judgment at the great white throne will be decisive and final with no love or mercy mixed in. Once a person dies in there sins, their record is sealed.
 

MarkWilliams

Active member
Jun 13, 2018
408
174
43
#45
God gave us basic understanding of right and wrong. Sentencing someone to burn alive forever is not justice in anyone’s book.

The Bible clearly states that the wages of sin is death.
God gave us basic understanding of right and wrong. Sentencing someone to burn alive forever is not justice in anyone’s book.

The Bible clearly states that the wages of sin is death.
I agree with you, it's practically impossible to accept. But the Bible seems to say that it is eternal torment, the only way around it would be to deny what the Bible is saying
 

MarkWilliams

Active member
Jun 13, 2018
408
174
43
#46
Spartanmd,

The great white throne judgment, which takes place after the millennial period, is a judgment for the unrighteous dead throughout all of history to be held accountable for all of their sins. The church will have already been judged at the Bema seat of Christ after the resurrection takes place to receive reward or loss of reward and not for sin. The righteous do not appear for judgment at the great white throne.



The rich man and Lazarus is an actual event which Jesus is revealing to those reading. Parables use symbolism to represent what is literal. The rich man and Lazarus uses the real names of Abraham, Lazarus, Moses and the literal place of Hades. You people call this a parable and then ask for proof, which you get rid of by making it a parable.



The Lord along with the disciples did teach eternal torment in everlasting fire. You just keep getting rid of the evidence!

"depart from me you who are cursed into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels." The emphasis of "everlasting fire" is on those souls who will be suffering in it. Once again, here is the scripture regarding those who worship the beast, his image and receive his mark:

"A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name."

First of all, the scripture states that, the wrath that they will suffer will be poured out full strength, which means that there will be no mercy mixed in with it. And second, that they will be torment with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and the Lamb, would require those being torment to be existing in order to experience said torment/torture. And third, the scripture states that "the smoke of their torment will rise up forever and ever and they will have no rest day or night," which would also require those being tormented to be existing in order to experience said torment day and night.



The doctrine of Hell is proclaimed in the word of God. The above is just another repeated false apologetic.



You misunderstand! Hell is not a bullwhip for believers, but a warning to unbelievers. For the word of God says, "whoever has the Son, has life. But whoever does not have the Son does not have life and the wrath of God rests upon that person.



At the time of death, the love, grace and mercy of God ceases for those who have died rejecting Christ and are therefore in their sins. Judgment at the great white throne will be decisive and final with no love or mercy mixed in. Once a person dies in there sins, their record is sealed.
I really appreciate the way you use Holy Scripture to answer every question, you don't mix your own prejudice with Scripture. I like the idea of letting the Bible interpret the Bible, you can never go wrong that way.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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#47
I'm sure you have no problem grasping the fact that God is eternal, just as the universe is eternally big and has no end. So you could apply that truth to the doctrine of hell as well
I suppose you could.
It's just not how I see it.

Yes, God is eternal. And eternal life is in the Son and in fact, Jesus said: I AM the life. He IS eternal life. There is no eternal life apart from Him.

So I have a hard time trying to swallow it when men try to convince me that they DO have eternal life in themselves whether in Him OR apart from Him.

I do not think men are born with eternal life inside of them. I think the only eternal life is in the Son and I think that until they are in Christ, they don't have eternity.

Satan appears to be some strange case to me though. He DOES seem to have eternal life built in somehow. But God prohibited this from happening to men when He said, after the fall, that they must not be permitted to eat from the tree of life lest they live forever in their fallen state. Yet men will say they had eternal life in them, even though God refused them eternal life in that state.

It does not add up correctly. IF Jesus IS eternal life, then no one can live eternally unless they are in Him and He is in them.
Yet men will say humans can live eternally without Jesus.
 

MarkWilliams

Active member
Jun 13, 2018
408
174
43
#48
I suppose you could.
It's just not how I see it.

Yes, God is eternal. And eternal life is in the Son and in fact, Jesus said: I AM the life. He IS eternal life. There is no eternal life apart from Him.

So I have a hard time trying to swallow it when men try to convince me that they DO have eternal life in themselves whether in Him OR apart from Him.

I do not think men are born with eternal life inside of them. I think the only eternal life is in the Son and I think that until they are in Christ, they don't have eternity.

Satan appears to be some strange case to me though. He DOES seem to have eternal life built in somehow. But God prohibited this from happening to men when He said, after the fall, that they must not be permitted to eat from the tree of life lest they live forever in their fallen state. Yet men will say they had eternal life in them, even though God refused them eternal life in that state.

It does not add up correctly. IF Jesus IS eternal life, then no one can live eternally unless they are in Him and He is in them.
Yet men will say humans can live eternally without Jesus.
The Bible describes life as eternal, but it also describes death as a state of eternal damnation apart from God. Jesus said "I am the life" He gives this life to believers, but those who do not believe will exist without the life that He gives. Their existence will be a miserable one. The Bible never mentioned annihilation or an end of existence, sinners like to believe they will cease to exist when their life of sin ends. But the Bible says otherwise
 
Nov 12, 2015
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#50
The Bible describes life as eternal, but it also describes death as a state of eternal damnation apart from God. Jesus said "I am the life" He gives this life to believers, but those who do not believe will exist without the life that He gives. Their existence will be a miserable one. The Bible never mentioned annihilation or an end of existence, sinners like to believe they will cease to exist when their life of sin ends. But the Bible says otherwise
I disagree that the bible states what you say it states. I do think that's how you personally interpret what you read, but I do not think it states what you interpret it to be stating.

Maybe I would be helped by the verses that you interpret to be saying that eternal death is a state of existing. Because to me, existing is the opposite of death. And to me, eternal death means death, not existence.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#51
The Bible describes life as eternal, but it also describes death as a state of eternal damnation apart from God. Jesus said "I am the life" He gives this life to believers, but those who do not believe will exist without the life that He gives. Their existence will be a miserable one. The Bible never mentioned annihilation or an end of existence, sinners like to believe they will cease to exist when their life of sin ends. But the Bible says otherwise
True. The Bible says they will perish.

 

MarkWilliams

Active member
Jun 13, 2018
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#52
Sadly, Hell is real, and unfortunately no one can be prayed out of Hell.
Yes, that's what I believe too. I wish it wasn't the case but I fully accept everything God does and command us to do. I believe we will understand much more when we receive our glorified bodies, I believe we will also be illuminated with the truth about all things at the same time. Then we will fully love God, because we will see how much holier He is than we thought He was with our fallen minds and bodies.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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#53
Question to those who think the lost will simply cease to exist.

Why did Jesus say it would have been better if some weren't born rather than have to face the judgement? If they are annihilated, wouldn't it be exactly as if they weren't born?
 

MarkWilliams

Active member
Jun 13, 2018
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#54
I disagree that the bible states what you say it states. I do think that's how you personally interpret what you read, but I do not think it states what you interpret it to be stating.

Maybe I would be helped by the verses that you interpret to be saying that eternal death is a state of existing. Because to me, existing is the opposite of death. And to me, eternal death means death, not existence.
I heard a preacher describe hell as constantly dying, he was describing death as an ongoing thing where you continue to experience dying but not inhalation. The Bible describes hell as everlasting so I accept what the Bible says about it
 
Nov 12, 2015
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#55
Question to those who think the lost will simply cease to exist.

Why did Jesus say it would have been better if some weren't born rather than have to face the judgement? If they are annihilated, wouldn't it be exactly as if they weren't born?
Oh my gosh, penned!! Where have you been?? :giggle: Hi there.

What verse are you referring to here?
 
Nov 12, 2015
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#56
I heard a preacher describe hell as constantly dying, he was describing death as an ongoing thing where you continue to experience dying but not inhalation. The Bible describes hell as everlasting so I accept what the Bible says about it
Yes, well, death is forever.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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#57
PennED, I think you are maybe talking about when Jesus said of some that it would be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah than it would be for them at the judgement?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#58
Question to those who think the lost will simply cease to exist.

Why did Jesus say it would have been better if some weren't born rather than have to face the judgement? If they are annihilated, wouldn't it be exactly as if they weren't born?
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Some translations use a different word than fearful, such as: dreadful, terrible, terrifying, awful. I wonder if you can imagine the horror those who denied God all their lives are going to experience when facing Him. Also Ed, please look at your final question. Truly it blows my mind that people treat death as if it were not an everlasting punishment. Nobody in their right mind wants to die.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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#60
Most Christians believe that hell is eternal and you are concise for ever. The Bible never mentions inhalation, so I can't agree with you
I never mentioned inhalation - you did...
I don'tunderstand what you're trying to say other than that.