Is faith a work?

[TMS]

We are saved by the righteousness of Christ.

No we are not. If that were true, then why isn't everyone saved?

Because people do not accept His gift. They don't have faith in Jesus the source of life. Unrighteousness will not be part of Gods kingdom. We can not purchase or aquire by our efforts the perfect righteousness needed to be part of Heaven. It is a gift given to us by Christ.
It will result in fruits of righteousness if it is true faith.
Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

 

[brightfame52]

TMS

We are saved by the righteousness of Christ.

Correct if Christ died for us, since His Death demands Imputed Righteousness because of Justice Satisfied by His Blood.

Because people do not accept His gift.

Oh No, God accepted Christs Sacrifice and charges imputes Righteousness Freely unto all for whom Christ died and satisfied, the ones He died for have it to their charge account while they are still rebels by nature.

They don't have faith in Jesus the source of life.

Correct, naturally they dont have faith, thats why God quickens them, and gives them Faith from the quickening Spirit.

Unrighteousness will not be part of Gods kingdom.

Correct, but them Christ died for will have part, its their inheritance.

We can not purchase or aquire by our efforts the perfect righteousness needed to be part of Heaven.

Correct, its a Gift of Righteousness by Grace through Jesus Christ Rom 5:17

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ)

it will result in fruits of righteousness if it is true faith.
Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

In Rom 5:18 the free of Justification came upon all men by imputation unto Justification of life, their faith had nothing to do with it, it was by the righteousness of ONE [Jesus Christ] and His One Obedience as it states in Vs 19

So this Justification of life is restricted to all the Justified

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

This is speaking about the Spiritual realm of things, wherein the elect have been set free from the power of sin and unbelief. But Rom 5:12-21 is about the legal realm. We must not confound the two.

See when men are told the truth about the free grace in the Legal realm, the first thing they think is this gives the Justified a free license to sin, which shows how legalistic and mercenary our thinking is by nature.

 

[FreeGrace2]

We are saved by faith alone.
But works can not be seperated from faith.

This is talking out of both sides of your mouth. Either faith is really alone, or it is not alone. So your "but" statement inserts works into how to be saved. You are pushing a faith PLUS works system for salvation. And that is unbiblical.

Faith and works are connected.

This is untrue, and the Bible doesn't teach it. If they were, there would be NO need for the commands for works.

Faith without works are dead.

And you don't understand James either. He was using the word "dead" in the sense of unproductive. If your faith isn't producing works, it is unproductive. James' basic point is found in v.18 - But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds. Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds."

A believer CANNOT show their faith without deeds. That is what his point is. Believers SHOULD demonstrate their faith by deeds.

Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

And none of these 4 verses teach what you are claiming. Rather, Paul stressing the FACT that we are justified by faith ALONE, apart from works.

 

[FreeGrace2]

We are saved by the righteousness of Christ.
FreeGrace2 said:
No we are not. If that were true, then why isn't everyone saved?

Because people do not accept His gift. They don't have faith in Jesus the source of life.

Do you see your contradiction here? You begin with "we are saved by the righteousness of Christ", and then respond to my statement with "because people do not accept His gift because they don't have faith in Jesus."

So, the reality is that we are saved by faith in the work of Jesus.

 

[awelight]

WB: In that case you have completely misunderstood. Not just me. But the purpose of the Bible which contains the Gospel i.e. the Good News of God's saving grace.

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel for it is the power of God for salvation......." Romans 1: 16ff

Okay... fine. Then in what way is the Gospel the power unto salvation? Regeneratively or in Conversion?

 

[brightfame52]

Okay... fine. Then in what way is the Gospel the power unto salvation? Regeneratively or in Conversion?

Conversion accompanying the The Sanctifying work of the Spirit 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

 

[awelight]

Everlastinggrace



Sure He can, and He is the only one that can since He is only God
to do so he would have to set aside his perfect justice and overrule his own judgment

Not true, because Christ has intervened on their behalf and took care of Gods Law and Justice for them, when He died for them and satisfied Gods Law and Justice, so that's the very reason why God does quicken them from spiritual death, Justice has been satisfied through Christ.



Those Christ died for are Justified by His death/blood Rom 5:8-9


8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet[dead] sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood[death], we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Now since Christs death Justified them, God quickens them from Spiritual death, cause their sins have been paid for, put away by Christs death for them.



Correct which was accomplished by the death of Christ for them.

I could not agree with you more. You are spot on as to Justification and Sanctification.

Many don't seem to realize, that Justification before God - is Positional - planned by the Father and carried out by Jesus Christ. Sanctification - is Conditional - carried out by the one Justified, in concert with the Holy Spirit and Scripture. The first, Justification, is perfect and complete in every way. The second, Sanctification, is an on going process throughout the believer's life. A constant separating of oneself from the world system and sins of the flesh.

I think you would agree... that when Paul writes about Justification, in his Epistle to the Romans and says: That believers are justified by faith, he does not mean "positionally". In other words, "before God". Rather, they come to know and understand - through faith - that they have been Justified before God in Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the Just and Justifier of all whom are and shall be saved. This harmonizes with Romans 8:30 - and whom he foreordained, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. (All written in the past tense, one linking to the other in a perfect chain.) and with Romans 8:33 & 34 Who shall lay anything to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifies; 34 who is he that shall condemn? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.

Therefore, there is great blessing to a believer, when that one comes to know they have been Justified before God. They then realize they are no longer at enmity with God and have peace with Him.

God do with you.

 

[awelight]

WB: In that case you have completely misunderstood. Not just me. But the purpose of the Bible which contains the Gospel i.e. the Good News of God's saving grace.

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel for it is the power of God for salvation......." Romans 1: 16ff

As a P.S. to you post and my initial reply....

You said:
"In that case you have completely misunderstood. Not just me. But the purpose of the Bible..."

You might want to refrain from making accusations, until you are sure to whom you are speaking.

 

[Grandpa]

Why don't you believe Rom 4:4,5 where Paul EXPLAINED what "work" is in the Bible. It is anything that creates an obligation by the person doing the work to the one who PAYS for the work. Do you understand what that means? Is God paying anyone for believing in His Son? NO. How do I know that? Because salvation (Eph 2:8) and eternal life (Rom 6:23) are described as gifts. .

Because Faith is a gift as well.

Otherwise, the payment for YOUR WORK OF BELIEF would be Salvation. And Salvation would be by work.

But its not. Salvation doesn't come from you and its not of works, except Gods.


You just explained why Faith is a gift of God. Good job.

 

[Grandpa]

Since Jesus affirmed that the 11 were already saved, He COULDN'T have meant anything about how to get saved. The word "abiding" is about fellowship. iow, believers can bear fruit ONLY IF they are in fellowship with the Lord.

Fellowship = harmony. Believers out of fellowship are out of harmony with the Lord and cannot bear fruit. That is what Jesus was saying.

Fellowship is about the STATE of the relationship, just as harmony (or lack) is the state of a marriage.

So the Lord was just joking around, again?

Before "regeneration" you could stir up belief in yourself and CAUSE God to give you Salvation through Grace.

But afterwards, you can do nothing without Him...

You just don't want to get this, do you. v.28 gives us their question; which was what they MUST DO to DO the work God requires.

Jesus' answer was about what God requires for eternal life; it is to believe. Believing is from the heart, per Rom 10:10.

Regeneration follows belief, as Eph 2:5 and 8 clearly teach.

Jesus answer was/is a FACT. The Work of God is to believe in the One He sent.


Just like "You can do nothing without me" is also a statement of FACT.


Therefore, believing in the One that was sent is a Gift of God.

 

[brightfame52]

awelight

Many don't seem to realize, that Justification before God - is Positional - planned by the Father and carried out by Jesus Christ

I would say its legal and eternal, legal from the perspective of the Cross, eternal from the perspective of Gods Eternal Purpose in Christ.

Sanctification - is Conditional - carried out by the one Justified, in concert with the Holy Spirit and Scripture.

I disagree with that. The Death/Blood of Christ sanctified legally them He died for. Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Heb 13:12

12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

And any inward sanctification they may experience, its conditioned upon this one by Christs death.

Sanctification - is Conditional - carried out by the one Justified, in concert with the Holy Spirit and Scripture. The first, Justification, is perfect and complete in every way. The second, Sanctification, is an on going process throughout the believer's life. A constant separating of oneself from the world system and sins of the flesh.

I dont believe the believer adds anything to their sanctification, they grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ who is their sanctification. Even if God grants them grace to overcome some gross sin or other, they arent anymore sanctified or holy than prior to the overcoming grace. The flesh remains a terrible enemy until the day of death or that glorious day of redemption.

I think you would agree... that when Paul writes about Justification, in his Epistle to the Romans and says: That believers are justified by faith, he does not mean "positionally". In other words, "before God". Rather, they come to know and understand - through faith - that they have been Justified before God in Jesus Christ

Yeah I believe that, the believer was legally Justified at the cross prior to being Justified by Faith in their heart and conscience.

This harmonizes with Romans 8:30 - and whom he foreordained, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. (All written in the past tense, one linking to the other in a perfect chain.) and with Romans 8:33 & 34 Who shall lay anything to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifies; 34 who is he that shall condemn? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.

Yes, I also believe Rom 8:28-30 harmonizes with the truth of Justification from Eternity in the Mind and Purpose of God.

Therefore, there is great blessing to a believer, when that one comes to know they have been Justified before God. They then realize they are no longer at enmity with God and have peace with Him.

Yes, thats what God given Faith reveals, that not only are they not anymore at enmity with God, but that also, God has always been reconciled to them, through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Because Faith is a gift as well.

You have no verse to back you up. The gift in Eph 2:8 is salvation, just as eternal life is a gift in Rom 6:23. Salvation and eternal life are the same thing.

Otherwise, the payment for YOUR WORK OF BELIEF would be Salvation.

And you misunderstand John 6:29 as well. The Bible defines work as creating an obligation, like a paycheck, for instance. And here you are thinking salvation is "the parent for your work of belief". Pure nonsense. You should know better than that.

Since salvastion is a gift, there CANNOT be any PAYMENT. How can you not realize this?

And Salvation would be by work.

Both salvation and eternal life are gifts. Your definition of "work" is totally unbiblical.

Salvation doesn't come from you and its not of works, except Gods.

Of course. No one would argue against this. So you don't even understand my posts if you think I believe that malarkey.

You just explained why Faith is a gift of God. Good job.

No I didn't, since I KNOW it isn't.

What you seem unable to grasp is the use of "faith" as a NOUN can be seen as a gift, but as a verb, it ABSOLUTELY is not a gift.

Do you even know the difference?

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Since Jesus affirmed that the 11 were already saved, He COULDN'T have meant anything about how to get saved. The word "abiding" is about fellowship. iow, believers can bear fruit ONLY IF they are in fellowship with the Lord.

Fellowship = harmony. Believers out of fellowship are out of harmony with the Lord and cannot bear fruit. That is what Jesus was saying.

Fellowship is about the STATE of the relationship, just as harmony (or lack) is the state of a marriage.

So the Lord was just joking around, again?

Rather than make these kind of totally irrelevant comments, how about actually addressing what I post? Do you even understand what it means to be either IN or OUT OF fellowship with the Lord?

Before "regeneration" you could stir up belief in yourself and CAUSE God to give you Salvation through Grace.

This extremely childish comment is ridiculous. And by it, you have demonstrated to the thread just how confused you are.

No one "stirs up belief". And I bet you can't even explain how one would. So it's a throw-away comment, totally worthless.

Apparently you Calvinists must think human beings are unable to think for themselves, and must be CHANGED in order to realize what God is promising to humans.

And why would Calvinists think man responding to the gospel promise CAUSES God to do anything is beyond absurd. The Bible tells us that "God is pleased...to save those who believe". Apparently that phrase just flies way over your head.

In fact, Calvinists don't believe that human beings can believe, even though that is the way people are saved. The apostle John emphasized "believing" as THE way to be saved. It mentioned "believe" over 100 times in his gospel. Yet you Calvinists ignore it and keep making bizarre statements like above.

But afterwards, you can do nothing without Him...

That's what Jesus said. Why is that so funny to you? Or are you just mocking what Jesus said?

Jesus answer was/is a FACT. The Work of God is to believe in the One He sent.

You are free to your own fantasies. But Since both Eph 2:8,9 and Rom 4:4,5 make very clear that work and faith are totally different, all you do it embarrass yourself by your totally out of touch comments.

Just like "You can do nothing without me" is also a statement of FACT.

It certainly is and no one should laugh about it, as you just did.

Therefore, believing in the One that was sent is a Gift of God.

No verse says believing is a gift. You are just full of misinformation.

The BIBLE says man believes from his own heart in Rom 10:10. How does that fit into Calvinist theology? It doesn't, though it is a FACT, so you just ignore the FACTS that don't agree with all the claims that Calvinists make.

 

[brightfame52]

See believing in the Lord Jesus Christ is not a requirement one must meet in order to get themselves saved, but its the indication or confirmation that one has been saved by the Grace of God in and through the Lord Jesus Christ. It cant be expressed more in these times, that believing in Christ is not a precondition for getting saved, but a adjoining by-product of having been quickened, drawn by God, hence one believing on Jesus has everlasting life Jn 6:47

47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Jn 5:24

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Again a person doesnt get eternal life because they met the condition of believing, but one is believing because he has been given eternal life. There are no stipulations a man must meet in order to get God to save them.

 

[FreeGrace2]

See believing in the Lord Jesus Christ is not a requirement one must meet in order to get themselves saved, but its the indication or confirmation that one has been saved by the Grace of God in and through the Lord Jesus Christ.

This is just a word salad. Of course believing in the Lord Jesus IS a requirement for salvation.

A jailer asked Paul what he MUST DO DO DO to be saved in Acts 16:30.

Paul's answer was "Believe believe believe on the Lord Jesus and you WILL BE SAVED" in Acts 16:31.

Don't kid yourself. Believing on the work of Jesus Christ on your behalf for salvation is THE THE THE only requirement for salvation.

It cant be expressed more in these times, that believing in Christ is not a precondition for getting saved, but a adjoining by-product of having been quickened, drawn by God, hence one believing on Jesus has everlasting life Jn 6:47

Calvinists falsely believe that God unconditionally chooses who will be saved, and those chosen are regenerated in order for them to believe. All of this flatly contradicts the entire NT on salvation.

JOHN 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

This is THE THE THE requirement for salvation.

Jn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

This is THE THE THE requirement for salvation.

Again a person doesnt get eternal life because they met the condition of believing

The verses quoted by this poster ACTUALLY SAY that the believer gets eternal life on the basis of believing, yet he seems totally unaware of that FACT.

but one is believing because he has been given eternal life.

Calvinists always have the horse BEFORE the cart. Eternal life is given to believers. Not the other way around, as EVERY verse on the subject plainly states.

There are no stipulations a man must meet in order to get God to save them.

This poster seems weirdly unaware of Paul's answer to the jailer then.

But then, this is how Calvinists think. Or don't.

 

[awelight]

awelight


I would say its legal and eternal, legal from the perspective of the Cross, eternal from the perspective of Gods Eternal Purpose in Christ.



I disagree with that. The Death/Blood of Christ sanctified legally them He died for. Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Heb 13:12

12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

And any inward sanctification they may experience, its conditioned upon this one by Christs death.



I dont believe the believer adds anything to their sanctification, they grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ who is their sanctification. Even if God grants them grace to overcome some gross sin or other, they arent anymore sanctified or holy than prior to the overcoming grace. The flesh remains a terrible enemy until the day of death or that glorious day of redemption.



Yeah I believe that, the believer was legally Justified at the cross prior to being Justified by Faith in their heart and conscience.



Yes, I also believe Rom 8:28-30 harmonizes with the truth of Justification from Eternity in the Mind and Purpose of God.



Yes, thats what God given Faith reveals, that not only are they not anymore at enmity with God, but that also, God has always been reconciled to them, through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Thanks for your reply.

The Greek word translated: Sanctify is from the root word:: ἁγιάζω, which means "to consecrate", "make Holy" or "set apart to God".

I do stand corrected, in part on the subject of Sanctification. You are correct to point out that Sanctification is a work of God. There is a one time Sanctification of the believer. This is Positional Sanctification or what is called "Definitive" Sanctification. I misspoke in my original post by trying to contrast and compare Justification and Sanctification. Thus, leaving off the "positional" aspect of Sanctification. It is better explained in this way:

The Bible gives us two ways of understanding this doctrine. First, sanctification is definitive. This is God’s work of setting believers apart from non-believers. Even a babe in Christ is trusting in His finished work on the cross and is considered a “saint” (Rom. 1:7; 1 Cor. 1:2). In this sense, Christians are “sanctified” in the present (1 Cor. 6:11), “dead to sin” (Rom. 6:11), “crucified with Christ” (Gal. 2:20), and similar definitive (past-tense) statements. When we are sanctified, in Regeneration, we are set apart in Christ and considered to be saints based on the work of Christ for us.

Sanctification is also progressive. This active growth proceeds from the life we live by faith in Jesus Christ. Continuing to trust in the finished work of Christ, we grow in Christlikeness by cooperating with the Holy Spirit in seeking to live more faithfully in accordance with God’s Word. Paul spoke of progressive sanctification in this way:

Php 2:12 So then, my beloved, even as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
Php 2:13 for it is God which worketh in you both to will and to work, for his good pleasure.

God go with you.

 

[brightfame52]

awelight

Sanctification is also progressive. This active growth proceeds from the life we live by faith in Jesus Christ. Continuing to trust in the finished work of Christ, we grow in Christlikeness by cooperating with the Holy Spirit in seeking to live more faithfully in accordance with God’s Word. Paul spoke of progressive sanctification in this way:

I dont believe sanctification is progressive, but growth in it is.

And Sanctification is entirely Gods work amd the believer is passive. 1 Thess 5:22-24

22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

Paul understands that, so he prays to God for it, because its Gods work. Sure the believer becomes active in abstain from evil, but its only as God causes it.

This is accomplished by the Spiritual graces we have by new birth being confirmed and strengthen and developed, and again this is entirely at the mercy and work of God

Php 2:12 So then, my beloved, even as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
Php 2:13 for it is God which worketh in you both to will and to work, for his good pleasure.

Again, all this is dependent on Gods work !

And its always appropriate to understand where the believers perfect sanctification before God lies, regardless of the fluctuation of our conditions here on earth, is in Christ 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

 

[Grandpa]

You have no verse to back you up. The gift in Eph 2:8 is salvation, just as eternal life is a gift in Rom 6:23. Salvation and eternal life are the same thing.


And you misunderstand John 6:29 as well. The Bible defines work as creating an obligation, like a paycheck, for instance. And here you are thinking salvation is "the parent for your work of belief". Pure nonsense. You should know better than that.

Since salvastion is a gift, there CANNOT be any PAYMENT. How can you not realize this?


Both salvation and eternal life are gifts. Your definition of "work" is totally unbiblical.


Of course. No one would argue against this. So you don't even understand my posts if you think I believe that malarkey.


No I didn't, since I KNOW it isn't.

What you seem unable to grasp is the use of "faith" as a NOUN can be seen as a gift, but as a verb, it ABSOLUTELY is not a gift.

Do you even know the difference?

Salvation is by Faith. Without Faith there can be no Salvation.

If faith comes from you it is a work.

If faith comes as a gift of God it is not your work.


Therefore, when you say Faith IS NOT a gift of God, you are saying Salvation is by YOUR WORK.

I AM SAYING, Faith is a Gift of God and therefore OBVIOUSLY not from our work, JUST AS SCRIPTURE STATES.

 

[Grandpa]

FreeGrace2 said:
Since Jesus affirmed that the 11 were already saved, He COULDN'T have meant anything about how to get saved. The word "abiding" is about fellowship. iow, believers can bear fruit ONLY IF they are in fellowship with the Lord.

Fellowship = harmony. Believers out of fellowship are out of harmony with the Lord and cannot bear fruit. That is what Jesus was saying.

Fellowship is about the STATE of the relationship, just as harmony (or lack) is the state of a marriage.

Rather than make these kind of totally irrelevant comments, how about actually addressing what I post? Do you even understand what it means to be either IN or OUT OF fellowship with the Lord?


This extremely childish comment is ridiculous. And by it, you have demonstrated to the thread just how confused you are.

No one "stirs up belief". And I bet you can't even explain how one would. So it's a throw-away comment, totally worthless.

Apparently you Calvinists must think human beings are unable to think for themselves, and must be CHANGED in order to realize what God is promising to humans.

And why would Calvinists think man responding to the gospel promise CAUSES God to do anything is beyond absurd. The Bible tells us that "God is pleased...to save those who believe". Apparently that phrase just flies way over your head.

In fact, Calvinists don't believe that human beings can believe, even though that is the way people are saved. The apostle John emphasized "believing" as THE way to be saved. It mentioned "believe" over 100 times in his gospel. Yet you Calvinists ignore it and keep making bizarre statements like above.


That's what Jesus said. Why is that so funny to you? Or are you just mocking what Jesus said?


You are free to your own fantasies. But Since both Eph 2:8,9 and Rom 4:4,5 make very clear that work and faith are totally different, all you do it embarrass yourself by your totally out of touch comments.


It certainly is and no one should laugh about it, as you just did.


No verse says believing is a gift. You are just full of misinformation.

The BIBLE says man believes from his own heart in Rom 10:10. How does that fit into Calvinist theology? It doesn't, though it is a FACT, so you just ignore the FACTS that don't agree with all the claims that Calvinists make.

Are you purposely acting dumb here? Or do you really have no understanding?

It is YOUR SILLINESS I was making fun of.

And you are pretending not to see it. And if you aren't pretending then you have no business EVER trying to tell anyone anything.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
You have no verse to back you up. The gift in Eph 2:8 is salvation, just as eternal life is a gift in Rom 6:23. Salvation and eternal life are the same thing.

And you misunderstand John 6:29 as well. The Bible defines work as creating an obligation, like a paycheck, for instance. And here you are thinking salvation is "the parent for your work of belief". Pure nonsense. You should know better than that.

Since salvastion is a gift, there CANNOT be any PAYMENT. How can you not realize this?

Salvation is by Faith. Without Faith there can be no Salvation.

Correct. You can also say that salvation is by believing in Christ.

If faith comes from you it is a work.

That is a fallacy. Both Eph 2:8,9 and Rom 4:4,5 prove it is not a work.

If faith comes as a gift of God it is not your work.

Faith is not a gift. Man believes from his heart. That is not a gift. Work demands payment. Gifts DON'T. That's the difference. Salvation is the gift, as is eternal life. Neither demand payment from God. Our believing is what God requires to save you.

If you believe in Christ, God saves you. If you don't believe in Christ, God won't save you. That is His plan, all the way.

Therefore, when you say Faith IS NOT a gift of God, you are saying Salvation is by YOUR WORK.

Only in your own confused reformed mind. The Greek grammar of Eph 2:8 proves that faith is NOT a gift. The genders don't match, not that facts seem to have any sway with you.

I AM SAYING, Faith is a Gift of God and therefore OBVIOUSLY not from our work, JUST AS SCRIPTURE STATES.

Right. And I do what the Bereans did with Paul's SAYINGS. They checked them out by searching the Scriptures daily to see if what Paul said was TRUE.

And what you say isn't true. It is that simple. Eph 2:8 says salvation is the gift, just as Rom 6:23 says that eternal life is a gift.