Is Hell a Physical Place?

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Shiloah

Guest
#61
#61
When Steven was stoned, he saw a vision of Christ. As he died, he said, "I have fought the good fight," and then when he died, scriptures say "he fell asleep." He fell asleep like Jesus said Lazarus was asleep, and when the disciples said, "if he's asleep, then he will wake and be fine," Jesus then told them that Lazarus was DEAD.

Steven was stoned after the resurrection. In your opinion, his soul would have ascended to heaven at that time. So why do scriptures say Steven fell asleep? Like Lazarus was said to be asleep by Jesus, who also made it clear he meant that Lazarus was dead?
 
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RickShafer

RickShafer

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#62
Sep 8, 2012
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#62
Yea, see the rich man burning in Gehenna, who lifted up his eyes(while being combusted into nothing of course), and asked Abraham to send a former beggar at his gate to come give him a drop of water.
- Of course, that's the first thing you do when you are being suddenly consumed by flames - - -speak to someone else and ask them FOR A DROP OF WATER ON YOUR PARCHED TONGUE.
 
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Shiloah

Guest
#63
#63
RickShafer said:
Yea, see the rich man burning in Gehenna, who lifted up his eyes(will being combusted into nothing of course), and asked Abraham to send the former beggar to come give him a drop of water.
- Of course, that's the first thing you do when you are being suddenly consumed by flames - - -speak to someone else and ask them FOR A DROP OF WATER ON YOUR PARCHED TONGUE.
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That is a parable. There were a number of parables being told in a row, and that one was one of them. This parable is symbolism. This is the only parable in the bible which gives the idea that souls suffer after death. This involves a big study. I'd have to go look up an article that explains it well, but I'm not going to if no one's gonna read it.

I know you're only going to argue with me that this was no parable. I'm not going to bother arguing any more about it. I'll post a link if I can find the article I'm thinking of. Otherwise, there's no point in our discussing this anymore.

Apparently you think Lazarus the beggar was literally sitting in the bosom of Abraham?
 
T

talkwithme

Guest
#64
#64
The bible says that hell was originally created for satan and the angels that fell when they took wives on the earth. Seems like it was made to accomidate other followers. Since they were spiritual beings that would make it a spiritual place as well. But it also says that there is a bottomless pit there. The earth doesn't seem like it would be able to sustain a bottomless pit. That sounds more like a black hole in space.
 
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Shiloah

Guest
#65
#65
RickShafer said:
Yea, see the rich man burning in Gehenna, who lifted up his eyes(while being combusted into nothing of course), and asked Abraham to send a former beggar at his gate to come give him a drop of water.
- Of course, that's the first thing you do when you are being suddenly consumed by flames - - -speak to someone else and ask them FOR A DROP OF WATER ON YOUR PARCHED TONGUE.
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Ok, I found it. Here's the explanation.

At the beginning of Jesus' discourse in chapter fifteen of Luke the statement is made that "He spoke this parable unto them, saying," (Lk. 15:3). The Greek is very definite in making the word for parable clearly a singular noun. It is "the parable this.." This statement is followed by five separate stories, the first of which is the story of the lost sheep, and the last is the story of the rich man and Lazarus. You see, the teaching in chapter sixteen is but the continuation of the discourse in chapter fifteen, without interruption. Now, which of the five stories He gave them in this sermon was called a parable? The only one of the five which is prefaced by the claim, "And He spoke this parable unto them," was the story about the lost sheep. Was the lost sheep the only one that could be called a parable? And yet, any preacher or believer that I know will answer that the story of the lost coin, as well as the prodigal son, were also parables. Then why was the singular used - "this parable"? It should be clear to any thinking mind that all these stories were ONE PARABLE, like the facets of a diamond, as they turn each scintillates with new brilliance. Each was illustrating a view point of one great truth, and together they compose a whole. And this parabolic discourse of Jesus is continued into chapter sixteen of Luke, including the story of the rich man and Lazarus. The truth is that all five stories are each a fractional part of the complete parable, and when we read, "He spoke this parable unto them," this embraces the entire collection of symbol-pictures which in their completeness constituted the parable which He spoke. It is a careless assumption and an unfounded assertion to argue that the story of the rich man and Lazarus is not a parable!
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

Banned
#66
Sep 8, 2012
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#66
Shiloah said:
That is a parable. There were a number of parables being told in a row, and that one was one of them. This parable is symbolism. This is the only parable in the bible which gives the idea that souls suffer after death. This involves a big study. I'd have to go look up an article that explains it well, but I'm not going to if no one's gonna read it.

I know you're only going to argue with me that this was no parable. I'm not going to bother arguing any more about it. I'll post a link if I can find the article I'm thinking of. Otherwise, there's no point in our discussing this anymore.

Apparently you think Lazarus the beggar was literally sitting in the bosom of Abraham?
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So Jesus lied?
No other parable does Jesus name actual people.
Abraham's Bosom was the name of preascension paradise.
- Because Abraham was the father of faith.
- - And Jesus is the first fruits of righteousness, "no man comes to the Father except by Me", He said.
Abraham's Bosom was the place people went before the ascension - "You will be with Me this day in paradise", He told the thief on the cross.
 
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Shiloah

Guest
#67
#67
RickShafer said:
So Jesus lied?
No other parable does Jesus name actual people.
Abraham's Bosom was the name of preascension paradise.
- Because Abraham was the father of faith.
- - And Jesus is the first fruits of righteousness, "no man comes to the Father except by Me", He said.
Abraham's Bosom was the place people went before the ascension - "You will be with Me this day in paradise", He told the thief on the cross.
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Did you bother reading my post? If you're not going to read it, it's pointless for us to discuss. I don't know what else to say. If you can't see the point of what I posted, the reasoning behind calling the Lazarus story a parable, we're just plain never going to get anywhere on this. Nowhere does it say in scriptures that a parable can't have a name for a character in the parable. The rich man? Did he have a name? But again, read what I posted.

You obviously missed my point about Steven too. Oh well. If you're not going to read and consider, we both might as well be talking to ourselves.
 
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Shiloah

Guest
#68
#68
Ok. The "I say unto you today you will be in paradise with Me."

This is the way this quote would appear written in Greek. Do you see the difference? No COMMA. There were not commas used in Greek. With no comma, the entire meaning could change to "I say unto you today-- you will be in paradise with Me."

Jesus was not in paradise that day. Jesus was in the tomb. Now if you're going to say He was heaven, then why did Jesus say to Mary "don't touch me. I have not yet ascended to my Father?" That was after the resurrection that Jesus said this.
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

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#69
Sep 8, 2012
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#69
Answers in Red:
Shiloah said:
Ok. The "I say unto you today you will be in paradise with Me."

This is the way this quote would appear written in Greek. Do you see the difference? No COMMA. There were not commas used in Greek. With no comma, the entire meaning could change to "I say unto you today-- you will be in paradise with Me."
(It says : "To day thou shalt be in paradise with me") - (NO COMMAS)

Jesus was not in paradise that day. Jesus was in the tomb.(No He wasn't; He was leading captivity captive, and giving gifts unto some...) Now if you're going to say He was heaven,(I never said He was in heaven) then why did Jesus say to Mary "don't touch me. I have not yet ascended to my Father?"(Because he hadn't gone to heaven yet, he was making a show openly in hell - the place of departed spirits where there is a great gulf between Abraham's Bosom and where the rich man was) That was after the resurrection that Jesus said this.(Yes, but before the ascension)
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RickShafer

RickShafer

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#70
Sep 8, 2012
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#70
Which brings back the question, if Jesus was in the tomb how was He "making a show openly, triumphing over them" -
Look it up.
 
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Shiloah

Guest
#71
#71
RickShafer said:
Which brings back the question, if Jesus was in the tomb how was He "making a show openly, triumphing over them" -
Look it up.
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He died. He was raised from the dead. I don't think we're going to understand each other. Take care, and God bless.
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

Banned
#72
Sep 8, 2012
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#72
He defeated death, remember he said - "it is finished and GAVE UP THE GHOST". - (Willingly, after He saw everything was fulfilled - He came to fulfill all righteousness)
- "And the last enemy to be conquered is death".
- - He went to the place of departed spirits and "triumphed openly, giving gifts to some".

All these are written in the Bible, your assignment(should you choose it), is to find them.

- - - -"For God is a God of the living, and not the dead" - another quote by Jesus.

If you don't that's O.K.; I'll give all the verse quotations later. - (I just want you to use your concordance and look them up)

The truth is beautiful. Learn it.
 
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Crispyfry

Guest
#73
#73
A Physical Hell, well it could be deep within the Earth's inner core. That's hot as hell.
 
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sheebagrace

Guest
#74
#74
yeah i hope its a physical place in reality
 
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Michael50

Banned
#75
May 24, 2013
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#75
RickShafer said:
He defeated death, remember he said - "it is finished and GAVE UP THE GHOST". - (Willingly, after He saw everything was fulfilled - He came to fulfill all righteousness)
- "And the last enemy to be conquered is death".
- - He went to the place of departed spirits and "triumphed openly, giving gifts to some".

All these are written in the Bible, your assignment(should you choose it), is to find them.

- - - -"For God is a God of the living, and not the dead" - another quote by Jesus.

If you don't that's O.K.; I'll give all the verse quotations later. - (I just want you to use your concordance and look them up)

The truth is beautiful. Learn it.
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The Bible says Jesus died...it sounds like you are claiming that is a lie. How can Jesus die, be buried,,yet be alive somewhere giving out gifts? For me, and those who know the scripture,, that is an untruth.. Jesus said He would die and be in the grave and rise on the 3rd day.. you obviously don't believe Jesus..

Death is still very much prevalent in the world. And we all know it. Death will continue to happen until the last soul in the lake of fire is burned up and turned to ash.

Yes the Bible says the wicked will become ashes:

"you shall trample the wicked, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet" Malachi 4:3

The Bible says God will burn Satan up and turn him into ashes!

"I turned you to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all who saw you...You have become a horror and shall be no more forever." Ezekiel 28:18,19.

Again, the bible speaks of the fate of the wicked:

"But the wicked shall perish; the enemies of the Lord,,,shall vanish. Into smoke they shall vanish away." Psalms 37:20

so,, we can KNOW from the scripture that the wicked will be destroyed.. The bible is very clear,, ashes and smoke is what the wicked will become. Ashes & Smoke! Vanishing away!!!!

Yet,, there are many that believe the lake fire burns forever and ever,, yet the Bible makes it very clear that is not the case.

Ashes, is the result of something being burned up.. And in this particular case,, it is Satan and his followers that become

ashes! The Bible says so!


You can make claims that the dead are alive, however,, you are fooling yourself. You cited, "for God is a God of the living, and not the dead." Are you fooling yourself? You know good and well that the Bible says the righteous dead will be raised from their graves. Yet it seems you have decided the righteous dead are alive and aware... You have taken Luke 20:38 completely out of context..You shouldn't do things like that,, no wonder you now believe the dead are alive! Taking scripture out of context will lead to false doctrine. You did it with the death of Jesus and now you do it with the dead in Christ!
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

Banned
#76
Sep 8, 2012
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#76
I use scripture.
I back it up with facts.
Jesus IS a God of the living - look it up. Luke 20:34-38:
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. [SUP]35 [/SUP]But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, [SUP]36 [/SUP]and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection. [SUP]37 [/SUP]But in the account of the burning bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]38 [/SUP]He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.
 
Radius

Radius

Senior Member
#77
Feb 11, 2013
1,138
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#77
Shiloah said:
In my opinion, the whole doctrine of eternal torment is a total misunderstanding of scriptures. I had these same questions and reviewed all the different views until I found one that actually makes sense and I believe fits scriptures in its entirety. I believe there will be a judgement, and after that judgement, all those not written in the lambs book of life together with the devil and his angels will go into the all-consuming fire that will cleanse the whole earth. And they'll burn up. They will be ashes beneath our feet, just like scripture says.
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"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

"Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire."

I believe these two verses in Revelation are speaking of the same place: lake of fire.

In the first verse we see that those thrown in the lake of fire (devil, beast and false prophet) are to be tormented day and night forever and ever. And then also those names who are not found in the Lamb's Book of Life are also thrown there. Residents of the second death, the lake of fire, are to be kept there for all eternity.
 
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Michael50

Banned
#78
May 24, 2013
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#78
RickShafer said:
I use scripture.
I back it up with facts.
Jesus IS a God of the living - look it up. Luke 20:34-38:
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. [SUP]35 [/SUP]But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, [SUP]36 [/SUP]and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection. [SUP]37 [/SUP]But in the account of the burning bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]38 [/SUP]He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.
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You ignored my entire post. lololol,,, very typical of those stuck in false doctrine... carry on.
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

Banned
#79
Sep 8, 2012
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#79
Michael50 said:
You ignored my entire post. lololol,,, very typical of those stuck in false doctrine... carry on.
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I can't debate with you if you are going to fall back on old testament types and shadows for literal interpretation.
Please find the references in the New Testament that I showed another at post #72.
Look up and answer those, then we can debate (I'm not going spoon feed them to you).
 
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Michael50

Banned
#80
May 24, 2013
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#80
Radius said:
"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

"Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire."

I believe these two verses in Revelation are speaking of the same place: lake of fire.

In the first verse we see that those thrown in the lake of fire (devil, beast and false prophet) are to be tormented day and night forever and ever. And then also those names who are not found in the Lamb's Book of Life are also thrown there. Residents of the second death, the lake of fire, are to be kept there for all eternity.
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Read Ezekiel 28:18,19:

" You defiled your sanctuaries by the multitude of your iniquities, by the iniquity of your trading: Therefore I brought fire from your midst: it devoured you, And I turned you to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all who saw you.
All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you; you have become a horror, And shall be no more forever."


Friend, the wicked shall be marshaled by Satan to surround the Holy City,,, then God shall cause fire to fall on them, destroying them. The reward of he wicked is death, eternal death! Not eternal life in the lake of fire. That fire will go out after it burns all there is to burn. The bible says the fire will not be "quenched"!!! Quench is something the fire department does. "Quench", MEANS TO EXTINGUISH OR PUT OUT! God will not put the fire out,, it will go out only after it has done it's consuming work! It will not be quenched.
 
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