Is infant baptism biblical?

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A

Abiding

Guest
#61
#61
zone said:
so you're saying Christ was baptized in water by John to fulfill the Law and now christians are attempting to be justified by Law when they are baptized in water?

if we baptize our kids we are severing them from Grace??:)

like....no....that's not what you are saying is it?
nah.

not enuff coffee yet i reckon.
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No, Im saying Jesus was Baptized so that He could obey the Law(priest requirement) as a kinsman(even tho He was clean)
Then i was just saying it was fitting(not that scripture says that) for us as a Royal priesthood to do the same.
But it was just a bonus comment. Its real value is as a sign of what takes place in the new birth.
 
peacefulbeliever

peacefulbeliever

Senior Member
#62
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
199
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#62
zone said:
alright, fair enough.
so would you tell people do not to be baptized in water?

in other words....if not, why not?
why do it at all?
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I would tell people to do what is in their own heart to do. I understand that the apostles did baptize in water but I think that they did so because it was hard for them to let go of a "tradition". It's like in Acts 11 where Peter is explaining what happened when he went to the house of Cornelius and they received the holy spirit BEFORE they were baptized:

And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa and call for Simon whose surname is Peter; Whos shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all they house shall be saved. And as I began to speak the holy spirit fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the holy spirit. [Acts 11:13-16]

And although he remembered this and although he saw the evidence of their baptism - he still baptized them in water. [Acts 10:47] It's like the circumcision thing - some people wanted to hang onto that too.

If water baptism is necessary for salvation and we are also baptized in the holy spirit then wouldn't that make two baptisms?
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#64
#64
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

remember what John said at Jesus baptism. but....
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#65
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#65
Abiding said:
No, Im saying Jesus was Baptized so that He could obey the Law(priest requirement) as a kinsman(even tho He was clean)
Then i was just saying it was fitting(not that scripture says that) for us as a Royal priesthood to do the same.
But it was just a bonus comment. Its real value is as a sign of what takes place in the new birth.
Click to expand...
does scripture say it?
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#66
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#66
Abiding said:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

remember what John said at Jesus baptism. but....
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right...so what i'm not clear on, i hope to be...is do we baptize with water today.
is it something that we do, and if so, where is it commanded (or suggested).

or, conversely, where are we told to not do it
ty for bearing with me Abiding:)
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#67
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#67
Abiding said:
no you asked what happened to the communal mindset in the west.
reminded me of a butcher job i seen done in rom 9.
Sorry nothing to do with baptism.
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lol okay.
i wanted to cover baptism in water.
let's forget about kids.

just a really simple question - i guess i need to start at the beginning:confused:.
hmmm...how can i phrase it:

is water baptism merely a tradition?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#68
#68
Abiding said:
Funny, but if He hadnt been He would have broke the Law:eek:
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But John tells us why Jesus was baptized.

Think. Moses was told to take arron and his sons to the river, In front of the people. to show the poeple God set these people apart and they would be Gods representative (priests) on earth.

The same was with Jesus.

John 1: 31..I (John) Did not know him, but that he should be reveiled to Isreal, therfore I came baptizing with water. And john bore witness, saying I saw the spirit desending from heavan like a dove and he remained upon him (chrst) I did not know him, but he that sent me to baptize with water said unto me, Upon who you see the spirit of God descending like a dove and remaining on him..this is he who baptizes with the HOLY SPIRIT. And I have SEEN AND TESTIFIED THIS IS THE SON OF GOD.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#69
#69
zone said:
does scripture say it?
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it says we are priests, but it doesnt say thats the reason we are baptised although it is.
but even in the Old testament the water never actually cleaned much in reality but in
what it represented, by faith, it did.

But since im not so sure i understood your question ill answer another possibility:p
I myself dont believe water baptism was required and everywhere it says baptism I dont
insert water. Because of many things including Acts 1:5. But am not against it, nor teach against it.
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#70
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#70
peacefulbeliever said:
I would tell people to do what is in their own heart to do. I understand that the apostles did baptize in water but I think that they did so because it was hard for them to let go of a "tradition".
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hmmm....so you're suggesting they baptized in water without being told to, and it was recorded for us, but it was them acting out of nostalgia or summink?

not getting that part.

it might be true...but does the Lord or anyone straighten that out later at all?
because if we leave aside jewish believers for a moment - and thereby dispense with any tradition they may have acted on....Jesus said to baptize the nations.

hmm....alright.
 
Elizabeth619

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
#71
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
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#71
IVe read somewhere that circumcision(i know i spelled that wrong, im kinda not awake) and baptism are totally different tho they sound similiar. Not saying i agree or disagree but maybe i should find the link before i make more typos.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#72
#72
eternally-gratefull said:

But John tells us why Jesus was baptized.

Think. Moses was told to take arron and his sons to the river, In front of the people. to show the poeple God set these people apart and they would be Gods representative (priests) on earth.

The same was with Jesus.

John 1: 31..I (John) Did not know him, but that he should be reveiled to Isreal, therfore I came baptizing with water. And john bore witness, saying I saw the spirit desending from heavan like a dove and he remained upon him (chrst) I did not know him, but he that sent me to baptize with water said unto me, Upon who you see the spirit of God descending like a dove and remaining on him..this is he who baptizes with the HOLY SPIRIT. And I have SEEN AND TESTIFIED THIS IS THE SON OF GOD.
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Cool i was thinking of Leviticus. But have forgotten this part about Moses and Aaron. ty:)
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#73
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#73
Abiding said:
it says we are priests, but it doesnt say thats the reason we are baptised although it is.
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then it seems pretty important.

Abiding said:
but even in the Old testament the water never actually cleaned much in reality but in
what it represented, by faith, it did.
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absolutely.

Abiding said:
But since im not so sure i understood your question ill answer another possibility:p
I myself dont believe water baptism was required and everywhere it says baptism I dont
insert water. Because of many things including Acts 1:5. But am not against it, nor teach against it.
Click to expand...
okay.

Abiding said:
it says we are priests, but it doesnt say thats the reason we are baptised although it is.
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?

help abiding.
just narrow it down.
i'm not trying to convince you of anything.
just trying to sort out this part:

Abiding said:
it says we are priests, but it doesnt say thats the reason we are baptised although it is.
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are you referring to water here?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#74
#74
Abiding said:
Cool i was thinking of Leviticus. But have forgotten this part about Moses and Aaron. ty:)
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Yes God made it public. so the people could witness it. and say, yes, God set these people apart..

Just like God made Christ set apart by the witness of john, and those with him..

just like God does us, when we are baptised in front of the church,
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#75
#75
Elizabeth619 said:
IVe read somewhere that circumcision(i know i spelled that wrong, im kinda not awake) and baptism are totally different tho they sound similiar. Not saying i agree or disagree but maybe i should find the link before i make more typos.
Click to expand...
well they are circumcision represents taking the foreskin or whatever causes a loss of sensitivity to God

Where baptism is a cleansing and salvation picture In the Work of the Cross and ressurection
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#76
#76
eternally-gratefull said:
Yes God made it public. so the people could witness it. and say, yes, God set these people apart..

Just like God made Christ set apart by the witness of john, and those with him..

just like God does us, when we are baptised in front of the church,
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I like that alot. Jesus did say whoever denies Him is toast.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#77
#77
Abiding said:
well they are circumcision represents taking the foreskin or whatever causes a loss of sensitivity to God

Where baptism is a cleansing and salvation picture In the Work of the Cross and ressurection
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The same is they both represent cleansing

An uncircumcised person was seen as "unclean"

An unbaptized person could be seen as "unclean"

 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#78
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#78
Abiding said:
Where baptism is a cleansing and salvation picture In the Work of the Cross and ressurection
Click to expand...
water baptism is?
for ppl today?
or transitional OT ppl?
sorry if you already answered this mike.

am multitasking:)
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#79
#79
zone said:
then it seems pretty important.



absolutely.



okay.



?

help abiding.
just narrow it down.
i'm not trying to convince you of anything.
just trying to sort out this part:



are you referring to water here?
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Yes to water as far as the water cleansing law for the priest.
And what it signifies only: but only as a symbol, I dont believe
in baptismal regeneration coming from water but:

[h=3]Titus 3:5[/h]
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#80
#80
Abiding said:
Yes to water as far as the water cleansing law for the priest.
And what it signifies only: but only as a symbol, I dont believe
in baptismal regeneration coming from water but:

Titus 3:5


[SUP]5 [/SUP]Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Click to expand...

why people want to replace this with a work of man in physical water just amazes me.
 
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