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M
If you accept that Christians are a part of the Israel of God (Galations 6:16), then I agree that we are God's elect nation.
If however, you're talking about the state in Palestine formed in 1948, I would say, most certainly not. How can a state that was formed only 60 years ago be the same nation that was talked of in the bible more than 2000 years ago, simply because of a name? That would be like arguing that a baby born today and named Adolf Hitler was the same Hitler that presided over Germany during World War II.
Can some in the state of Israel (in Palestine) be part of the Israel of God, through Christ Jesus our Lord? Yes. Is the state of Israel (in Palestine) God's elect nation? Lol. Of course not.
If however, you're talking about the state in Palestine formed in 1948, I would say, most certainly not. How can a state that was formed only 60 years ago be the same nation that was talked of in the bible more than 2000 years ago, simply because of a name? That would be like arguing that a baby born today and named Adolf Hitler was the same Hitler that presided over Germany during World War II.
Can some in the state of Israel (in Palestine) be part of the Israel of God, through Christ Jesus our Lord? Yes. Is the state of Israel (in Palestine) God's elect nation? Lol. Of course not.
L
Israel still exists as a nation just as prophecy foretold it would. The nation Israel is back in its land in preparation for the literal fulfillment of all the prophecies pertaining to it. This supports the belief that God has not permanently rejected the nation Israel, but has only temporarily set them aside until He is ready to fulfill His promises to them.
Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Romans 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Romans 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Romans 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Romans 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
M
I don't agree with your interpretation of this prophecy.
It's a different Israel. You can't suddenly name a man or a nation the same as something in the bible, and expect all the passages in the bible to apply because of the name change. I can't change my name to Abraham, and suddenly start claiming I'm going to be the father of many nations etc. because it's in the bible. What if someone changed their name to Jesus - would you hold that they had become God? Such an idea is absurd!
The promises to national Israel have been fulfilled. Remember this thread http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/74633-support-your-local-jew.html
It's a different Israel. You can't suddenly name a man or a nation the same as something in the bible, and expect all the passages in the bible to apply because of the name change. I can't change my name to Abraham, and suddenly start claiming I'm going to be the father of many nations etc. because it's in the bible. What if someone changed their name to Jesus - would you hold that they had become God? Such an idea is absurd!
The promises to national Israel have been fulfilled. Remember this thread http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/74633-support-your-local-jew.html
L
It's not my interpretation....it's what the Scripture says.
Then tell us: Which Israel is Romans 11:25-29 speaking of? Have the geography maps changed? Biblical maps show it's the very same "Israel" (known as Canaan in Genesis) which God promised to Abraham and his physical seed through Isaac. Read about the Land Covenant in Deuteronomy 28-30. Remember the promises and curses? Genesis 15:18-21 speaks of the physical land that God has promised to Abraham and his physical descendants through Isaac. The land promises are still future (which means they have not been fulfilled yet). They will be fulfilled after the 7 year tribulation (the 70th week of Daniel) according to Romans 11:25-29.
Because you folks got so obnoxious in the thread to which you are referencing, I started this one, in the hope that things could possibly be more civil. That's why I put a mess of you guys on ignore.....you included. However I decided to "view" this post of yours and when I saw it, I decided to reply. However, you are going back on ignore. It appears that you, and all the others of your "group" don't want to be civil. You want to continue with your "anti-Israel" rhetoric by stating your unbiblical teaching that "The promises to national Israel have been fulfilled".....when you don't even believe or know that the nation/state of Israel is the same as the one in the Bible. I suppose you and your "group" believe in "another" Israel, just as you believe and teach "another" gospel.
Then tell us: Which Israel is Romans 11:25-29 speaking of? Have the geography maps changed? Biblical maps show it's the very same "Israel" (known as Canaan in Genesis) which God promised to Abraham and his physical seed through Isaac. Read about the Land Covenant in Deuteronomy 28-30. Remember the promises and curses? Genesis 15:18-21 speaks of the physical land that God has promised to Abraham and his physical descendants through Isaac. The land promises are still future (which means they have not been fulfilled yet). They will be fulfilled after the 7 year tribulation (the 70th week of Daniel) according to Romans 11:25-29.
Because you folks got so obnoxious in the thread to which you are referencing, I started this one, in the hope that things could possibly be more civil. That's why I put a mess of you guys on ignore.....you included. However I decided to "view" this post of yours and when I saw it, I decided to reply. However, you are going back on ignore. It appears that you, and all the others of your "group" don't want to be civil. You want to continue with your "anti-Israel" rhetoric by stating your unbiblical teaching that "The promises to national Israel have been fulfilled".....when you don't even believe or know that the nation/state of Israel is the same as the one in the Bible. I suppose you and your "group" believe in "another" Israel, just as you believe and teach "another" gospel.
A
[h=3]Update!!!
1 Peter 2:3-10[/h]
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood,an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
1 Peter 2:3-10[/h]
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood,an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
Matthew 16:18
And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Dispy 16:18
And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it, but the church isn't promised to you, it's for gentiles. You are of Israel, so you.....uh.....um......
And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Dispy 16:18
And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it, but the church isn't promised to you, it's for gentiles. You are of Israel, so you.....uh.....um......
Acts 11
Peter Reports to the Church
1Now the apostles and the brothersa who were throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God. 2So when Peter went up to Jerusalem, the circumcision party criticized him, saying, 3“You went to uncircumcised men and ate with them.” 4But Peter began and explained it to them in order: 5“I was in the city of Joppa praying, and in a trance I saw a vision, something like a great sheet descending, being let down from heaven by its four corners, and it came down to me. 6Looking at it closely, I observed animals and beasts of prey and reptiles and birds of the air. 7And I heard a voice saying to me, ‘Rise, Peter; kill and eat.’ 8But I said, ‘By no means, Lord; for nothing common or unclean has ever entered my mouth.’ 9But the voice answered a second time from heaven, ‘What God has made clean, do not call common.’ 10This happened three times, and all was drawn up again into heaven. 11And behold, at that very moment three men arrived at the house in which we were, sent to me from Caesarea. 12And the Spirit told me to go with them, making no distinction. These six brothers also accompanied me, and we entered the man’s house. 13And he told us how he had seen the angel stand in his house and say, ‘Send to Joppa and bring Simon who is called Peter; 14he will declare to you a message by which you will be saved, you and all your household.’ 15As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them just as on us at the beginning. 16And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17If then God gave the same gift to them as he gave to us << [JEWS/ISRAEL/CHURCH/CHRISTIANS] when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God’s way?” 18When they heard these things they fell silent. And they glorified God, saying, “Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life.”
The Church in Antioch
19Now those [JEWS/ISRAEL/CHURCH/CHRISTIANS] who were scattered because of the persecution that arose over Stephen traveled as far as Phoenicia and Cyprus and Antioch, speaking the word to no one except Jews. 20But there were some of them, men of Cyprus and Cyrene, who on coming to Antioch spoke to the Hellenistsb also, preaching the Lord Jesus. 21And the hand of the Lord was with them, and a great number who believed turned to the Lord. 22The report of this came to the ears of the church in Jerusalem, and they sent Barnabas to Antioch. 23When he came and saw the grace of God, he was glad, and he exhorted them all to remain faithful to the Lord with steadfast purpose, 24for he was a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and of faith. And a great many people were added to the Lord. 25So Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul, 26and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. For a whole year they met with the church and taught a great many people. And in Antioch the disciples were first called Christians.
27Now in these days prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch. 28And one of them named Agabus stood up and foretold by the Spirit that there would be a great famine over all the world (this took place in the days of Claudius). 29So the disciples determined, everyone according to his ability, to send relief to the brothersc living in Judea. 30And they did so, sending it to the elders by the hand of Barnabas and Saul.
what's the problem?
Peter Reports to the Church
1Now the apostles and the brothersa who were throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God. 2So when Peter went up to Jerusalem, the circumcision party criticized him, saying, 3“You went to uncircumcised men and ate with them.” 4But Peter began and explained it to them in order: 5“I was in the city of Joppa praying, and in a trance I saw a vision, something like a great sheet descending, being let down from heaven by its four corners, and it came down to me. 6Looking at it closely, I observed animals and beasts of prey and reptiles and birds of the air. 7And I heard a voice saying to me, ‘Rise, Peter; kill and eat.’ 8But I said, ‘By no means, Lord; for nothing common or unclean has ever entered my mouth.’ 9But the voice answered a second time from heaven, ‘What God has made clean, do not call common.’ 10This happened three times, and all was drawn up again into heaven. 11And behold, at that very moment three men arrived at the house in which we were, sent to me from Caesarea. 12And the Spirit told me to go with them, making no distinction. These six brothers also accompanied me, and we entered the man’s house. 13And he told us how he had seen the angel stand in his house and say, ‘Send to Joppa and bring Simon who is called Peter; 14he will declare to you a message by which you will be saved, you and all your household.’ 15As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them just as on us at the beginning. 16And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17If then God gave the same gift to them as he gave to us << [JEWS/ISRAEL/CHURCH/CHRISTIANS] when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God’s way?” 18When they heard these things they fell silent. And they glorified God, saying, “Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life.”
The Church in Antioch
19Now those [JEWS/ISRAEL/CHURCH/CHRISTIANS] who were scattered because of the persecution that arose over Stephen traveled as far as Phoenicia and Cyprus and Antioch, speaking the word to no one except Jews. 20But there were some of them, men of Cyprus and Cyrene, who on coming to Antioch spoke to the Hellenistsb also, preaching the Lord Jesus. 21And the hand of the Lord was with them, and a great number who believed turned to the Lord. 22The report of this came to the ears of the church in Jerusalem, and they sent Barnabas to Antioch. 23When he came and saw the grace of God, he was glad, and he exhorted them all to remain faithful to the Lord with steadfast purpose, 24for he was a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and of faith. And a great many people were added to the Lord. 25So Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul, 26and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. For a whole year they met with the church and taught a great many people. And in Antioch the disciples were first called Christians.
27Now in these days prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch. 28And one of them named Agabus stood up and foretold by the Spirit that there would be a great famine over all the world (this took place in the days of Claudius). 29So the disciples determined, everyone according to his ability, to send relief to the brothersc living in Judea. 30And they did so, sending it to the elders by the hand of Barnabas and Saul.
what's the problem?
L
I see that some people are unable to "rightly divide" the Word of truth....and falsely and purposefully bash dispensational theology because it dosn't "fit" into their own scheme of biblical interpretation.
I asked Abiding to show me where Peter meant "church" in those verses he quoted...1 Peter 2:3-10.
The word "church" is mentioned once in 1 Peter 5:13 and not at all in 2 Peter.
To whom was Peter addressing in his 2 epistles?
I'm not saying that Peter preached a different Gospel than Paul, but Peter was the apostle to the "circumcision" (the Jews) and Paul was the apostle to the "uncircumcision" (the Gentiles).
I asked Abiding to show me where Peter meant "church" in those verses he quoted...1 Peter 2:3-10.
The word "church" is mentioned once in 1 Peter 5:13 and not at all in 2 Peter.
To whom was Peter addressing in his 2 epistles?
I'm not saying that Peter preached a different Gospel than Paul, but Peter was the apostle to the "circumcision" (the Jews) and Paul was the apostle to the "uncircumcision" (the Gentiles).
E
If you accept that Christians are a part of the Israel of God (Galations 6:16), then I agree that we are God's elect nation.
If however, you're talking about the state in Palestine formed in 1948, I would say, most certainly not. How can a state that was formed only 60 years ago be the same nation that was talked of in the bible more than 2000 years ago, simply because of a name? That would be like arguing that a baby born today and named Adolf Hitler was the same Hitler that presided over Germany during World War II.
Can some in the state of Israel (in Palestine) be part of the Israel of God, through Christ Jesus our Lord? Yes. Is the state of Israel (in Palestine) God's elect nation? Lol. Of course not.
If however, you're talking about the state in Palestine formed in 1948, I would say, most certainly not. How can a state that was formed only 60 years ago be the same nation that was talked of in the bible more than 2000 years ago, simply because of a name? That would be like arguing that a baby born today and named Adolf Hitler was the same Hitler that presided over Germany during World War II.
Can some in the state of Israel (in Palestine) be part of the Israel of God, through Christ Jesus our Lord? Yes. Is the state of Israel (in Palestine) God's elect nation? Lol. Of course not.
In Romans 11. And MANY OT prophesies concerning the nation of Israel are fulfilled (Israel repents, Israel is restored, The nations who have treated Israel badly when she was in their care, because of her sin, are judged) would this be the Israel, which is Gods chosen nation? Since, unlike the nation now.
1. They have repented
2. They have received Christ like we have
3. They have rejected the false teaching of the pharisees, and the judiazers
4. They no longer follow after false Gods (play the harlot wiht them) but follow the same one true God we do.