Is it a sin to drink alcohol

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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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I don't judge after the flesh, and if I did I wouldn't judge a man based upon hearsay.
lucky for you, you don't have to rely on hearsay. unless that's what you think scripture is. because scripture tells us about whether Noah is righteous or not:

Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his time; Noah walked with God.
(Genesis 6:9)
first thing he does after the flood is build an altar to praise God, who saved him.
next he plants a vineyard & makes wine - quite obviously alcoholic. Genesis 9:20-21
is your position that Noah was doing evil in the sight of God? that having been spared from destruction, he immediately became wicked and stopped walking with God?
when he '
awoke from his wine' ((v.24)) he said "blessed be the LORD" ((v.26))
what do you say, does anyone bless the LORD except by the Spirit?

is this an evil man, plotting to do wickedness by planting a vineyard?
or is this a righteous man rejoicing in the goodness and blessing of the God he walks with?

if you're going to judge people who drink wine - which, dude, that's judgement after the flesh - then you sit also in judgement over Noah. is that a comfy seat? is what i'd like to know.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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Num 6:3 He shall separate himself from
wine; and
strong drink; and shall drink no
vinegar of wine; or
vinegar of strong drink,neither shall he drink
any liquor of grapes; nor
eat moist grapes, or dried.

It says nothing about the juice from the fruit of the vine.
But Jesus was never a Nazarite as far as we can tell from scripture. Unlike John, during Jesus ministry, the Son of Man came eating and drinking. If you insist that this was unfermeted grape juice, Nazarites were not allowed to drink that, either.

Jesus is the Branch. Jesus is the Nazarene.
He is known as the Branch, not the vower of the Nazarite vow.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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lucky for you, you don't have to rely on hearsay. unless that's what you think scripture is. because scripture tells us about whether Noah is righteous or not:

Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his time; Noah walked with God.
(Genesis 6:9)
first thing he does after the flood is build an altar to praise God, who saved him.
next he plants a vineyard & makes wine - quite obviously alcoholic. Genesis 9:20-21
is your position that Noah was doing evil in the sight of God? that having been spared from destruction, he immediately became wicked and stopped walking with God?
when he '
awoke from his wine' ((v.24)) he said "blessed be the LORD" ((v.26))
what do you say, does anyone bless the LORD except by the Spirit?
is this an evil man, plotting to do wickedness by planting a vineyard?
or is this a righteous man rejoicing in the goodness and blessing of the God he walks with?


if you're going to judge people who drink wine - which, dude, that's judgement after the flesh - then you sit also in judgement over Noah. is that a comfy seat? is what i'd like to know.
Don't you think Noah might have erred by drinking to excess? Maybe it was his first experience with alcohol.
 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
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If you insist that this was unfermeted grape juice, Nazarites were not allowed to drink that, either.
But the juice from the fruit of the vine could include a number of fruits, not just grapes.

The vow of the Nazarite would not have precluded drinking grape juice.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
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Alcohol is especially not for Priests, for they are to be ever Holy [Holiness] unto the the Lord:

Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations: Leviticus 10:9​
And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean; Leviticus 10:10​

[Some will say I have taken this passage out of context for it only deals with not drinking when entered into the Sanctuary, but they do not know the basics of scripture [I do not merely say so, Paul himself says so; Hebrews 5:11-14], but rather if one will consider yet further the Book of Hebrews [where in Paul is quite clear], etc, it will be seen that I have placed it exactly within its proper context for Christians [1 Corinthians 10:6,11, 15:46; for those things were written for our admonition, for ensamples [types] unto us], who are, even now supposed to be by faith, entered into the True Tabernacle of Heaven's work; Thus being that we are entered in with Him [Christ Jesus] by Faith, even now into the Most Holy in Heaven, the Anti-typical Day of Atonement; see Daniel; Hebrews and Revelation, Leviticus 16 and 23. More detail may be said of this later.]

...the example of Nadab and Abihu [Leviticus 10:1-11; Numbers 3:4; 26:1; 1 Chronicles 24:2] are given as examples of what happens in transgression by drinking that which is forbidden and bringing not the Holy Fire of God, but their own "strange" fire of confusion [God is not the author of confusion (which is what alcohol brings) – 1 Corinthians 14:33] before the LORD, therefore:

"... put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean;" [Leviticus 10:10]​

Those which place no such difference, but instead put darkness for light and bitter for sweet, will so likewise perish in the presence of the LORD.

Jesus Christ upon the cross, was offered the wine (alcohol) mingles with myrrh, tasted it, see, Mark 15:23 (see also Matthew 27:34; Luke 23:36), and he did not drink it.

Mat_27:34 They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink.​

For it was the symbol of death (decay, corruption):

Heb_2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.​
As priests of the most High God, we are to be entered into the True Sanctuary with God by faith, and thus we are not to drink alcohol, as Nadab and Abihu, and offer a strange fire. There is not alcohol in Heaven, and none will be in the New Heaven and New Earth, for all thing there are eternally "new".
Jesus didn't drink the wine with gall, because it was a sedative, and he intended to suffer fully on the cross for us.
Stop trying to make scripture say what you WANT it to say.
 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
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lucky for you, you don't have to rely on hearsay. unless that's what you think scripture is. because scripture tells us about whether Noah is righteous or not:

Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his time; Noah walked with God.
(Genesis 6:9)
That is a written in a copyrighted book, which has to make material changes in the text it is attempting to copyright is the public domain. So of course it is going to change Noah from being a just man into a righteous man, but removes he was perfect in his generations while replacing it with blameless in his time.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
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But the juice from the fruit of the vine could include a number of fruits, not just grapes.

The vow of the Nazarite would not have precluded drinking grape juice.
By your standards, we could include tomato juice.. "rightly dividing" as you so strongly insist upon, means that you take a word or phrase as it was used when it was spoken.... NOT what it could have morphed into over centuries. When first century people spoke of the fruit of the vine, they ALL knew it was grapes.
 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
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Jesus didn't drink the wine with gall, because it was a sedative, and he intended to suffer fully on the cross for us.
Stop trying to make scripture say what you WANT it to say.
Vinegar and wine are two distinct liquids, and gall is bile, human waste.

But you got it right about who delivered him up to be crucified according to John 19:11
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,744
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Those who claim that drinking any alcohol is forbidden have real issues, because Jesus undoubtedly drank alcohol.

Same thing with eating meat. Jesus ate the Passover lamb as an observant Jew.

And he ate fish.

That's one reason why I have real issues with Seventh Day Adventists.

They claim that the "health gospel" means that man cannot eat meat or wine and be a spiritually superior believer.

Yet Jesus undoubtedly did both.

So much for Adventism.

In terms of meat, their beliefs came from Helena Blavatsky's teachings that those who ate meat absorbed the animal passions of the animal they consumed, leading to masturbation and nymphomania.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helena_Blavatsky

However, overindulgence of alcohol is forbidden by Scripture.
 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
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When first century people spoke of the fruit of the vine, they ALL knew it was grapes.
Might consider taking a history class.

Here is a list of the fruits from Rome to Egypt that would have been available .
apples, pears, pomegranates, lazzeruole, quinces, plums, blackberries and mulberries, cherries , peaches, apricots, figs and grapes, melons, melons, watermelons) and nuts (walnuts, hazelnuts, almonds, pine nuts, dates) and of course, olives
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
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Might consider taking a history class.

Here is a list of the fruits from Rome to Egypt that would have been available .
apples, pears, pomegranates, lazzeruole, quinces, plums, blackberries and mulberries, cherries , peaches, apricots, figs and grapes, melons, melons, watermelons) and nuts (walnuts, hazelnuts, almonds, pine nuts, dates) and of course, olives
oh, good grief. Most of those grow on TREES, or bushes. Melons and grapes grow on vines, but, your silliness aside, "fruit of the vine" meant GRAPES back then.
History class, indeed.... been there, done that.
 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
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Those who claim that drinking any alcohol is forbidden have real issues, because Jesus undoubtedly drank alcohol.
I am not saying it was prohibited to drink alcohol, since it is written

6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.
Prov 31:6-7

I am just saying it in no wise can be considered as righteousness.
 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
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oh, good grief. Most of those grow on TREES, or bushes. Melons and grapes grow on vines, but, your silliness aside, "fruit of the vine" meant GRAPES back then.
History class, indeed.... been there, done that.
I just copied and pasted the whole list of fruits, you can do your own work in going thru the list and seperate the ones which grew on vines. Prove your own work.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
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I just copied and pasted the whole list of fruits, you can do your own work in going thru the list and seperate the ones which grew on vines. Prove your own work.
and I suppose I will need to explain to you the "forest and trees" thing...

You are missing the point entirely.... in the first century, "fruit of the vine" WAS grapes. Nothing else.

Man, I'll be glad when the middle schools open back up, and much of this silliness is stopped.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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HBG. Pa. USA
it is as you say, none of us are 'as smart as we think'
therefore it was not at all ignorant, but in fact a very knowledgeable and wise thing to say -- and you are in error to rebuke me over it, clearly so, since you contradict your supposed rebuke with your own explanation.


but the saying is proven true: rebuke a scoffer, and get cursed for it; rebuke a wise man, and he will love you for it.
I thought you would try to excuse your ill behavior.
The greatest thing one can know is that they know nothing. Then they can learn from Him that is learned.

I am sorry I thought you were a christian. My mistake carry on.
 
Oct 25, 2018
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Well, James says that the man who doubts when he prays should not think that he should receive anything of the Lord. Do you believe that God answers any other prayers these days?
Do you believe a head severed can be reattached via prayer? I don’t. I don’t doubt God, I doubt ppl’s application of James 5:13-16.