Is it a sin to drink alcohol

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UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,744
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#62
deuteronomy 14:26 is opinion?

GOD SAYS you can buy WINE or STRONG DRINK, even if you think wine means grape juice, strong drink doesnt: case closed. how can you refute such a clearverse??

Deu_14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
Melach, I'm guessing they think "strong drink" is chocolate milk :D

By the way, all one has to do is research the origin of Welch's grape juice to see that there are problems with their assertion. Grape juice could not be kept until modern canning techniques developed in the 1800's.

And, you are right..it's the product of women leading men around by their dress strings. This is especially true in charismatic/Pentecostal/free-willer circles.
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
1,864
1,418
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#64
Melach, I'm guessing they think "strong drink" is chocolate milk :D

By the way, all one has to do is research the origin of Welch's grape juice to see that there are problems with their assertion. Grape juice could not be kept until modern canning techniques developed in the 1800's.

And, you are right..it's the product of women leading men around by their dress strings. This is especially true in charismatic/Pentecostal/free-willer circles.
i love you too bro and all is going good praise God in all states. and you know i didnt know that about grape juice. that doctrine is so ridicilous really. modernized christianity. people are more pastorally concerned than Jesus now? Jesus made wine and wasnt worried
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,744
1,928
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#65
i love you too bro and all is going good praise God in all states. and you know i didnt know that about grape juice. that doctrine is so ridicilous really. modernized christianity. people are more pastorally concerned than Jesus now? Jesus made wine and wasnt worried
I think using grape juice reduces from the sensual perception of the experience that God intended. I believe it creates a feeling of warmth and joy and thankfulness.

It is the abuse of God's gifts that is the problem, not the use of them.

And God has definitely given wine to make man's heart glad.

Psalm 104:15 and wine to gladden the heart of man, oil to make his face shine and bread to strengthen man’s heart.

What kind of a biblical ignoramus can come along and think he knows better than God on this issue?

Answer: Pentecostals, free-willers, Seventh Day Adventists.

They are more moral than God :)
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,744
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#66
What percentage of alchohol? I know of a moderate drinker who drank beer. He had to stop due to gaining too much weight and blood pressure.
There's definitely some health risks involved in overconsumption. I wouldn't deny that.

Complete prohibition as a measure of righteousness is the problem methinks.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
10,637
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#67
What percentage of alchohol? I know of a moderate drinker who drank beer. He had to stop due to gaining too much weight and blood pressure.

Quote

A drink is defined as 1.5 ounces of spirits, 5 ounces of wine, or 12 ounces of beer. The dietary guidelines recommend that anyone younger than the legal drinking age and pregnant women should refrain from drinking alcohol.

In a review of 84 studies, people who drank one or fewer alcoholic drinks a day were 14% to 25% less likely to develop heart disease compared to their teetotaling counterparts.

End quote

https://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/news/20110224/moderate-alcohol-drinking-may-boost-heart-health
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
18,943
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#68
Those who know the English language, and use it rightfully so, disagree with you, in mathematics, debate, logic, rhetoric, science, medicine, politics, etc:

And so on. If you cannot even manage that correctly, how shall we trust anything you say upon "alcohol" (Arabic origins) and matters scripture?
So you were right, and I was wrong... but your demeaning arrogance only confirms my previous estimation of you.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
31,589
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#69
Not at all, as I said (which you decidedly did not cite),

I asked if any desired to see that study. Instead of answering they decided to go to a scripture which they thought teaches what they practice. I disregarded nothing. It was already answered before they ever said a word and I asked them if they wanted to see such. Their silence was deafening.
You said to drink alcohol is a sin; it is not. So by direct evidence (not a priori assumption) I already know your 'study' is bunk; it reaches a wrong conclusion, therefore it is in error, and not worth looking at.

I don't know what you presume is the 'lifestyle' which believers who know the freedom they have are in your words, 'practicing' ((there's an a priori for ya)) but if you truly have any knowledge relevant to the particular scriptures which have already been mentioned nothing stops you from giving that specific input. You don't have to copy-paste walls of error on other scriptures in order to address the things that have already been said, yet you decline - so again I have direct evidence upon which to reach the conclusion that you don't have legitimate arguments to make. What you do purport to have is a flood of text to bury the discussion with, and as demonstrated already, it's not germane to do so, because you've already given the conclusion, and the conclusion is false. The only purpose it would serve is to use it as a weapon, cutting off objection through information overload.
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
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#70
God's word has much to say about the consumption of fermented and unfermented wine. In ancient times wine could be fermented grape juice mixed with water, thus making it somewhat diluted. Fermented wine could also be made without adding water and making it more intoxicating. The Bible often describes this type of wine as "strong drink". Without question the Bible condemns drinking to the point where a person is drunk. As Christians we are commanded to not let our bodies be enslaved by anything (1 Corinthians 6: 12) and getting drunk with alcohol would certainly fall under this category. Christians should not do anything that hinders the Holy Spirit's influence on us. A person who consumes alcohol to the point where they are drunk has let the alcohol influence their decision making instead of being "filled by the spirit". Alcohol by itself is not tainted by sin, it is the drunkenness and addiction to it that a Christian must absolutely stay away from. Scripture does not forbid Christians from drinking beer, wine, or anything else containing alcohol in it. As a matter of fact, there are times the Bible speaks of alcohol in a positive light.

Ephesians 5:18 "be not drunk with wine where in excess; but be filled with the Holy Spirit." This passage of scripture is warning us to not be "drunk" or drinking to the point where it is to much or "excess". Drinking to much leads to intoxication, which leads to bad decisions. God wants us to be filled by the Holy Spirit which leads and guides us into making better decisions in life.

Exodus 32:6-7 The people were so intoxicated with wine that the Lord said, "they have corrupted themselves."
Proverbs 20:1 "Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise." To be led astray is to be led by the intoxication of wine, where God wants us to be lead by the Holy Spirit.

Proverbs 31:4-7 verse 4 says that it is not for kings to drink wine. If the king is drunk and is under its influence, he may forget the law, his morals, or himself. A drunken king will use bad judgement when making important decisions concerning his kingdom. A king who stays drunk all the time cannot lead his people or country. Now notice in verse 6 this passage is actually giving permission to drink intoxicating wine. "strong drink" to those who are about to die and may need it for pain and "wine" who have a heavy heart and is afflicted with anxiety, nervousness, or something troubling them emotionally.

Final thoughts
It is incorrect to say that wine in the Bible was just simply grape juice, but equally incorrect to say that wine was fermented the same as modern day. It has been clinically proven that a glass of red wine soothes the stomach. The drunken state is what the Bible most warns about. The fact is, many people have a problem with having just "one glass" of red wine and want to keep going until it is too late. They become enslaved by the alcohol and do and say things they normally wouldn't. For these people it is a good idea to stay completely away from any kind of alcohol beverage. Keep in mind, back in ancient times the water was not very clean. Without modern sanitation, the water was filled with bacteria, viruses, and all kinds of contaminants. It is still true today in some third world countries where immediately after you step off an airplane they tell you not to drink the water! Regarding alcohol and its effects it has on people, the easy temptation to consume more than one can handle, and due to the possibility causing another brother or sister stumbling in their walk with Christ, it may be best for a Christian to abstain from drinking all together.
God bless everyone!
If drinking alcohol is a sin then Jesus sinned. So the answer to your question is no, drinking is not a sin because Jesus never sinned.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
6,792
3,364
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#71
Quote

A drink is defined as 1.5 ounces of spirits, 5 ounces of wine, or 12 ounces of beer. The dietary guidelines recommend that anyone younger than the legal drinking age and pregnant women should refrain from drinking alcohol.

In a review of 84 studies, people who drank one or fewer alcoholic drinks a day were 14% to 25% less likely to develop heart disease compared to their teetotaling counterparts.

End quote

https://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/news/20110224/moderate-alcohol-drinking-may-boost-heart-health
So basically not really drinking much of it then. Might as well just drink water. Not enough water is probably much of our problems.
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
937
136
43
#72
i see it says eat yes. whats your point about that? and whats the connection between the chapters?
So, you think that to "eat" means to drink?, yes?

Gen_24:54 And they did eat and drink, he and the men that were with him, and tarried all night; and they rose up in the morning, and he said, Send me away unto my master.​

Do you see those two words? Are you telling me that it says to "eat" (drink) twice?
 
Nov 17, 2017
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#73
Hi!

1Tim 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

Paul advised Timothy to drink wine for medicinal purposes.......

As mentioned before drink in moderation, just like food, eat in moderation..
And whatever we indulge in...

God Bless!
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
31,589
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#75
Yes, the translation is not so much the issue, as the KJB reads perfectly:

Deu 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,​
Deu 14:26 ונתתה הכסף בכל אשׁר־תאוה נפשׁך בבקר ובצאן וביין ובשׁכר ובכל אשׁר תשׁאלך נפשׁך ואכלת שׁם לפני יהוה אלהיך ושׂמחת אתה וביתך׃​
Deu 14:26 καὶ δώσεις τὸ ἀργύριον ἐπὶ παντός, οὗ ἐὰν ἐπιθυμῇ ἡ ψυχή σου, ἐπὶ βουσὶ ἢ ἐπὶ προβάτοις, ἐπὶ οἴνῳ ἢ ἐπὶ σικερα ἢ ἐπὶ παντός, οὗ ἐὰν ἐπιθυμῇ ἡ ψυχή σου, καὶ φάγῃ ἐκεῖ ἐναντίον κυρίου τοῦ θεοῦ σου καὶ εὐφρανθήσῃ σὺ καὶ ὁ οἶκός σου​

It is the context of this verse that needs to be understood.

For instance, instead of presenting my study, let me ask you, do you know what the context of this event refers to?

Where were the Israelites to do this thing in context?

Where were the Israelites at the time of this verse?

Does the text say that they were to "drink" the "wine" or "strong drink"?

Have you read Deuteronomy 12 in connection to Deuteronomy 14, & 26 & 29 along with Number 28?

Have you considered the typological aspects with the anti-typical reality of it a given in the NT?

Do you know what the word "tithe", "firstfruits" means? (I am simply asking).

you are arguing that this is for drink offerings?
that God's word to the people commands to offer to Him sinful, evil sacrifices at a place other than where He chose to place His name?

no, i really would rather not read such a study. :sick:
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
31,589
10,565
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#76
thou shalt eat there before the LORD
same word in Leviticus 7 & 17 - do not eat blood.
in Genesis 43:16, same word, is to dine - referring both to eating and drinking, to being fed
it is the same word in Exodus 12 referring to the seder meal, which Christ took with His disciples both meat and wine in 'the' cup.
it is the same word in Deuteronomy 8:10 & 12 saying in the land they will 'eat and be satisfied' referring both to partaking in the good foods in vv. 8-9 and also to drinking from the brooks, streams and deep springs in v. 7
it means to consume as at the burning bush, which did not.


moreover Deuteronomy 14:26 instructs to take the meat and the strong drink purchased with the LORD's portion of increase & with it to consume & rejoice - a word conjoined with wine in many scriptures, ex. Ecclesiastes 9:7 & Psalm 104:15

@WithinReason methinks your argument is spurious.
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
3,664
113
#77
Yes, it is. My study shows without a doubt, but you desired to not see it. I am clean from your blood.
Poor kid, you’re another legalistic warrior who has no concept of grace. All you do is shut out the Kingdom of Heaven against others. I sincerely pity you. Now give me another Red X so your batting average remains 1.0000.