Is it lawful to pray to and worship Jesus, and Holy Spirit?

[VW]

Really??? Well, I guess that I'm just an overflowing bowl of curiosity tonight, but I must know VW....why do you believe that this relationship is more deeper or important than is currently being taught?

Besides many experiential reasons, this is what I hear from the Spirit Himself. The passage quoted shows a unity of the Spirit and the bride that I have never heard taught anywhere. The same unity which He has been telling me about for these 15+ years.

Overflowing bowl of couriosity; that's a good one. I have been posting on this site about the Spirit and our relationship with and to Him, for over a year now, and if you read some of the replies this has produced, you might just agree with me.

Did you know that according to some, the only true purpose of the Holy Spirit in our lives is to confirm the truths taught by the scriptures? I was actually told this. When the fact is that we are born into God's family, have become heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus, through the sole working of the Holy Spirit in us. And even more, it is by the Spirit that we have our access to the Father. But not enough yet, because it is by the Spirit that we put to death the deeds of the flesh. Oh yeah, and let's not forget that the only reason we are members of the body of Christ is because He, the Spirit, added us to Him.

But you know, He's just the Spirit, and His purpose is to confirm scripture, rather, what we believe scripture says. He is the Spirit of truth only in that He confirms the truth of scripture.

Well, I hear that the sheep of Jesus Christ hear His voice, and this hearing is by the Spirit. And I hear that His sheep know Him, and this too is by the Spirit. And that they are given eternal life, which is also by the Spirit.

All I can say is that if anyone spends the desire and the prayers to come to know the Holy Spirit, and to know His heart, they will be sadened. He is sad.

 

[Consumed]

Besides many experiential reasons, this is what I hear from the Spirit Himself. The passage quoted shows a unity of the Spirit and the bride that I have never heard taught anywhere. The same unity which He has been telling me about for these 15+ years.

Overflowing bowl of couriosity; that's a good one. I have been posting on this site about the Spirit and our relationship with and to Him, for over a year now, and if you read some of the replies this has produced, you might just agree with me.

Did you know that according to some, the only true purpose of the Holy Spirit in our lives is to confirm the truths taught by the scriptures? I was actually told this. When the fact is that we are born into God's family, have become heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus, through the sole working of the Holy Spirit in us. And even more, it is by the Spirit that we have our access to the Father. But not enough yet, because it is by the Spirit that we put to death the deeds of the flesh. Oh yeah, and let's not forget that the only reason we are members of the body of Christ is because He, the Spirit, added us to Him.

But you know, He's just the Spirit, and His purpose is to confirm scripture, rather, what we believe scripture says. He is the Spirit of truth only in that He confirms the truth of scripture.

Well, I hear that the sheep of Jesus Christ hear His voice, and this hearing is by the Spirit. And I hear that His sheep know Him, and this too is by the Spirit. And that they are given eternal life, which is also by the Spirit.

All I can say is that if anyone spends the desire and the prayers to come to know the Holy Spirit, and to know His heart, they will be sadened. He is sad.

amen vw

heb 6

1Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.



scriptures gives us the elementary principles thru them though God speaks to us bout many things. two people can read the same scripture and God speak to them thru them bout two different things as pertaining to what God is doing and dealing in them - how? Holy Spirit revealing truths about ourselves as much as God. Jesus promised He would send the comforter who would lead and reveal all truths, we just need but come and be open and honest before God

 

[Red33]

Okay, so by faith, when was the last time you entered within the veil, into the most holy place? What did you see? How did you feel? What was said, if anything? What changes happened within you?

It is one thing to know about a place, and quite another to go to that place, especially when that place is where the living God resides.

I die more each time I go there, to become alive in the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Second hand testimony is worthless.

The NT believer would not even know or have the Spirit without the blood of Christ making it possible. The promise of the Spirit came as a result of the blood of Christ being place on the mercy seat in heaven satisfying the justice of the Father as it put away all sin and gave the sinner access to the Father through the Son. When the sinner believes upon the blood of Christ that was shed on the cross for the remission of sins, the Holy Spirit is given to that believer as an earnest deposit to seal that believer until the day of redemption (of his body). The Spirit is a gift given to the believer to guide him and to reveal Christ to Him as he grows in grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. The blood gives the believer access to the Father and the Spirit encourages the believer through the blood of Christ to boldly approach Him to obtain mercy and find grace to help in the time of need.

 

[Scotth1960]

The following is from Christian Theology, Second Edition, by Millard J. Erickson, Baker Academic, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1998, p. 367.

The doctrine of the Trinity is a crucial ingredient of our faith. Each of the three, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, is to be worshiped, as is the Triune God. And keeping in mind their distinctive work, it is appropriate to direct prayers of thanks, and petition to each of the members of the Trinity, as well as to all of them collectively. Furthermore, the perfect love and unity within the Godhead model for us the oneness and affection that should characterize our relationship within the body of Christ. [End of quote]

Now consider the following:

Exodus 34: 14 -for you shall not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God -

Matthew 4: 10 Then Jesus said to him, "Go, Satan ! For it is written, 'YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD, AND SERVE HIM ONLY.' " 11 Then the devil left Him; and behold, angels came and began to minister to Him.

Should we worship and pray to Jesus and Holy Spirit if they are not God? Would this not be idolatry?


I have included your beloved KJV below for the traditionalists as well as the NASB, so you cannot malign my translation.

Hebrews 1: 1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith , And let all the angels of God worship him. (KJV)

Hebrews 1: 1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they. 5 For to which of the angels did He ever say, "YOU ARE MY SON, TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU"? And again, "I WILL BE A FATHER TO HIM AND HE SHALL BE A SON TO ME"? 6 And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says, "AND LET ALL THE ANGELS OF GOD WORSHIP (NASB)

It appears that God Himself will order the angels to worship Jesus. How can this be, if Jesus is not God?

If Jesus is not God, His death on the cross was for nothing. Only a sinless God-man could atone for the sins of sinners, and that of sinners who repent. But it would have to be a man who is God, and God would have to become a man to give His life and shed His blood to atone for sins. If Christ were just a man, then He would not be what the Bible says He is. Christ is sinless. Therefore He is God, besides being a man. Because all other men are sinful; but this man, Jesus Christ, never sinned. By rising from the dead, He has established the fact that He is the living, Eternal Son of God, God manifest in the flesh. The 4 Gospels and the rest of the NT all preach that Christ is Lord. And that the Holy Spirit is Lord, as in Acts chapter 5 we read the Spirit is God. So, we should as Christians worship the Father, and also Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit Who proceeds from the Father. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

 

[VW]

The NT believer would not even know or have the Spirit without the blood of Christ making it possible. The promise of the Spirit came as a result of the blood of Christ being place on the mercy seat in heaven satisfying the justice of the Father as it put away all sin and gave the sinner access to the Father through the Son. When the sinner believes upon the blood of Christ that was shed on the cross for the remission of sins, the Holy Spirit is given to that believer as an earnest deposit to seal that believer until the day of redemption (of his body). The Spirit is a gift given to the believer to guide him and to reveal Christ to Him as he grows in grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. The blood gives the believer access to the Father and the Spirit encourages the believer through the blood of Christ to boldly approach Him to obtain mercy and find grace to help in the time of need.

Just as I thought, you have never been there.

It is all just head knowledge, and you are not making use of the things you talk about.

 

[Red33]

Just as I thought, you have never been there.

It is all just head knowledge, and you are not making use of the things you talk about.

Don't you understand, that whenever we have fellowship with the Father and the Son it is by faith through the blood of Christ that was put upon that mercy seat? God communes with those that come to Him from between the cherubims that look upon the mercy seat from both sides, because that is where the blood was applied. God communes with us through mercy because of the blood. Every believer has access to that mercy seat anytime they want. The mercy seat is open for business and the Father is available for fellowship and communion. This is where we worship God, at the mercy seat. Don't you understand the cross, the reason and purpose that Christ came as the Lamb of God to be a propitiation (mercy seat) for our sins. The most wretched and vile sinner, no matter what they have done, can have access when they humble themselves and come by faith through the blood of the cross. This is why we must preach the gospel of Christ and Him crucified, because God is waiting at the mercy seat to save them and accept them through His mercy without any works.

 

[VW]

Don't you understand, that whenever we have fellowship with the Father and the Son it is by faith through the blood of Christ that was put upon that mercy seat? God communes with those that come to Him from between the cherubims that look upon the mercy seat from both sides, because that is where the blood was applied. God communes with us through mercy because of the blood. Every believer has access to that mercy seat anytime they want. The mercy seat is open for business and the Father is available for fellowship and communion. This is where we worship God, at the mercy seat. Don't you understand the cross, the reason and purpose that Christ came as the Lamb of God to be a propitiation (mercy seat) for our sins. The most wretched and vile sinner, no matter what they have done, can have access when they humble themselves and come by faith through the blood of the cross. This is why we must preach the gospel of Christ and Him crucified, because God is waiting at the mercy seat to save them and accept them through His mercy without any works.

All I did was ask you what it was like to be in the holy place, in the presence of the living God. And you keep telling me how we all have this access, (which I know, as I use this access often, but not often enough,) but you won't tell me what it is like. (Even a small hint, so that I know you know what you are talking about.)

Do you remember the story of the man who saw Paul casting out demons, and thought that he could do the same? Second hand is worthless.

 

[zone]

Perhaps you have not caught up with what the Holy Spirit has already revealed through the written word to those that belong to the Father that have been purchased through the blood of Christ (Heb 4:16)...

Let us then fearlessly and confidently and boldly draw near to the throne of grace (the throne of God's unmerited favor to us sinners), that we may receive mercy [for our failures] and find grace to help in good time for every need [appropriate help and well-timed help, coming just when we need it].

Jesus Christ has made it so accessible to come to the Father and we approach the Father by faith through the blood of His Son. If we sin or transgress we approach the Father through the blood of His Son because the Son has given us full access as our mediator, our high priest and our advocate. The grace that we have access to through mercy is inexhaustible in its supply because it comes from the Father.

It is through Christ that we have access by one Spirit unto the Father (Eph 2:18).

It is through Christ that we have access to this grace wherein we stand (Rom 5:2).

In Christ and through His faith we have access and boldness to the things of God (Eph 3:12).

It is Christ that dwells in our hearts by faith, being rooted and grounded in love (Eph 3:17).

When we come before the Father by faith we can do this with confidence that we are accepted of Him because the blood of Christ has justified us before the Father. The Father will not condemn us because the Son took away through the cross everything that we could be condemned for and in His presence is fulness of joy with no fear or trepidation (Ps 16:11).

now that's what i'm talkin' bout...

 

[VW]

If they just would do it.

 

[Scotth1960]

The NT believer would not even know or have the Spirit without the blood of Christ making it possible. The promise of the Spirit came as a result of the blood of Christ being place on the mercy seat in heaven satisfying the justice of the Father as it put away all sin and gave the sinner access to the Father through the Son. When the sinner believes upon the blood of Christ that was shed on the cross for the remission of sins, the Holy Spirit is given to that believer as an earnest deposit to seal that believer until the day of redemption (of his body). The Spirit is a gift given to the believer to guide him and to reveal Christ to Him as he grows in grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. The blood gives the believer access to the Father and the Spirit encourages the believer through the blood of Christ to boldly approach Him to obtain mercy and find grace to help in the time of need.

Amen, Red 33. The blood of Christ cleanseth from all sin, and this makes salvation, which is also in the Holy Spirit, possible. Without the shedding of (Christ's) blood, there is no remission of sin(s). Christ saves people who repent and turn to Him in faith and in baptism. He brings life to repentant sinners through the Holy Spirit Who proceeds from the Father.
The blood of Christ is sufficient to save from all sin, but good works are also required, because without repentance and good works, no one will be saved. These are the required result of being saved by the blood of Christ; impenitence does not fulfill the purpose of the blood of Christ, which is the expiation (removal) of all of our sins. In this life we may not yet be fully sinless, but the Holy Spirit will give us the power to overcome our sins, and to live new lives with renewed minds and pure hearts so we can see God now and on the day we die. Take care.
Scott Erie PA

 

[VW]

Amen, Red 33. The blood of Christ cleanseth from all sin, and this makes salvation, which is also in the Holy Spirit, possible. Without the shedding of (Christ's) blood, there is no remission of sin(s). Christ saves people who repent and turn to Him in faith and in baptism. He brings life to repentant sinners through the Holy Spirit Who proceeds from the Father.
The blood of Christ is sufficient to save from all sin, but good works are also required, because without repentance and good works, no one will be saved. These are the required result of being saved by the blood of Christ; impenitence does not fulfill the purpose of the blood of Christ, which is the expiation (removal) of all of our sins. In this life we may not yet be fully sinless, but the Holy Spirit will give us the power to overcome our sins, and to live new lives with renewed minds and pure hearts so we can see God now and on the day we die. Take care.
Scott Erie PA

So what happens when you go through the veil?