Is it true as is or is it not?
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This may help you with that bone. 
https://www.gotquestions.org/Proverbs-26-4-5.html
The Proverbs scripture doesn't really contradict itself in that if we answer a fool in equal measure to their foolish behavior they've then drawn us in to being a fool too. Verse 5 tells us that at times though it may be necessary to call out the fool in a language they can understand so as to correct them.
https://www.gotquestions.org/Proverbs-26-4-5.htmlThe Proverbs scripture doesn't really contradict itself in that if we answer a fool in equal measure to their foolish behavior they've then drawn us in to being a fool too. Verse 5 tells us that at times though it may be necessary to call out the fool in a language they can understand so as to correct them.
In order to fall from or out of something you had to first be on or in something.
So in order to fall from the grace of God you had to, at one point in time, be in the grace of God.
Paul was telling the Galatians who were justified by the law that they had fallen from the Grace of God because their works we're of the law and not of faith.
They stopped trusting in Christ for their righteousness, justification, and salvation, which is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, by which we are saved.
In 1st John 2:24 John says that if that which you have heard from the beginning remains in you, you shall continue in the Son and in the Father. Which means, if you don't keep that which you have heard from the beginning, then you will not continue in the Son, which means, that you have fallen from the grace of God.
They were trying to justify themselves through the works of the law in part by circumcising the flesh.
They were basing their righteousness on their own works of obedience to the law and not on Jesus' work on the cross.
When you move from faith in Christ to fulfilling the law you've moved or Fallen from the Grace of God.
So in order to fall from the grace of God you had to, at one point in time, be in the grace of God.
Paul was telling the Galatians who were justified by the law that they had fallen from the Grace of God because their works we're of the law and not of faith.
They stopped trusting in Christ for their righteousness, justification, and salvation, which is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, by which we are saved.
In 1st John 2:24 John says that if that which you have heard from the beginning remains in you, you shall continue in the Son and in the Father. Which means, if you don't keep that which you have heard from the beginning, then you will not continue in the Son, which means, that you have fallen from the grace of God.
They were trying to justify themselves through the works of the law in part by circumcising the flesh.
They were basing their righteousness on their own works of obedience to the law and not on Jesus' work on the cross.
When you move from faith in Christ to fulfilling the law you've moved or Fallen from the Grace of God.
The only thing I try to show off is the power of God through his word.
When you add an unknown to the certainty and guaranteed promise of God, you change it and make it into something iffy.
And with that, the best you can do is hope or wish God will answer your prayer.
There simply is NO faith involved in hoping, wishing, and wondering what God will do, absolutely none.
Again, throw that verse concerning God's will in the Salvation promises and see what that would do to your faith in him to fulfill his word.
You simply wouldn't have any, and that is exactly what many are doing to the promises of God's word concerning the things that we desire and whatever we want or whatever our will is.
God wants us to have the things that we want as well as the things that he wants for us. If he didn't, then he would have not have written it that way.
When you add an unknown to the certainty and guaranteed promise of God, you change it and make it into something iffy.
And with that, the best you can do is hope or wish God will answer your prayer.
There simply is NO faith involved in hoping, wishing, and wondering what God will do, absolutely none.
Again, throw that verse concerning God's will in the Salvation promises and see what that would do to your faith in him to fulfill his word.
You simply wouldn't have any, and that is exactly what many are doing to the promises of God's word concerning the things that we desire and whatever we want or whatever our will is.
God wants us to have the things that we want as well as the things that he wants for us. If he didn't, then he would have not have written it that way.
This may help you with that bone. https://www.gotquestions.org/Proverbs-26-4-5.html
The Proverbs scripture doesn't really contradict itself in that if we answer a fool in equal measure to their foolish behavior they've then drawn us in to being a fool too. Verse 5 tells us that at times though it may be necessary to call out the fool in a language they can understand so as to correct them.
https://www.gotquestions.org/Proverbs-26-4-5.htmlThe Proverbs scripture doesn't really contradict itself in that if we answer a fool in equal measure to their foolish behavior they've then drawn us in to being a fool too. Verse 5 tells us that at times though it may be necessary to call out the fool in a language they can understand so as to correct them.
I was making the point that almost all of our arguing is over - oh, you know what it's not important.
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This is not a biblical view.
"Things" only come in 2 categories:
A. Things God wants for us
B. Things God does not want for us
We either align our will with God, or we do not.
This is very basic theology.
God is not Santa Claus.
We don't take him our wish list, and he "fills our order."
Prayer isn't like shopping at Amazon.
We must align our will with God's will, and submit to his will.
To understand God's will, we study the scripture.
God is not interested in OUR will.
That is called pride.
God is only interested that we humble ourselves, and submit to HIS will.
Even Jesus, our example, never talked about his will, but only God's will.
Mat 6:10 "Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven."
Mat 26:39 "...nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will."
Even Jesus did not take God a wish list, and expect God to fill his order... he submitted himself to God's will.
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"Things" only come in 2 categories:
A. Things God wants for us
B. Things God does not want for us
We either align our will with God, or we do not.
This is very basic theology.
God is not Santa Claus.
We don't take him our wish list, and he "fills our order."
Prayer isn't like shopping at Amazon.
We must align our will with God's will, and submit to his will.
To understand God's will, we study the scripture.
God is not interested in OUR will.
That is called pride.
God is only interested that we humble ourselves, and submit to HIS will.
Even Jesus, our example, never talked about his will, but only God's will.
Mat 6:10 "Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven."
Mat 26:39 "...nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will."
Even Jesus did not take God a wish list, and expect God to fill his order... he submitted himself to God's will.
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Very true.
Unfortunately once in awhile we may run across a denomination or that individual Christian that thinks God aspires poverty, and bestows the spirit of poverty upon his own. And as such, thinking to have a good secure life is a sin. If that were true the homeless across America would be happy saints. And that denomination that teaches poverty would join them.
God's word speaks to his desire for our prospering by his will and word.
2 Timothy 3:16-17
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.
Proverbs 3:9-10
Honor the Lord with your wealth and with the firstfruits of all your produce; then your barns will be filled with plenty, and your vats will be bursting with wine.
Matthew 6:33
But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.
Unfortunately once in awhile we may run across a denomination or that individual Christian that thinks God aspires poverty, and bestows the spirit of poverty upon his own. And as such, thinking to have a good secure life is a sin. If that were true the homeless across America would be happy saints. And that denomination that teaches poverty would join them.
God's word speaks to his desire for our prospering by his will and word.
2 Timothy 3:16-17
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.
Proverbs 3:9-10
Honor the Lord with your wealth and with the firstfruits of all your produce; then your barns will be filled with plenty, and your vats will be bursting with wine.
Matthew 6:33
But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.
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The kingdom of God is within.
I'd warn you against judging all Christians using most as a concept. There are over 1 billion Christians on earth. You've not conversed with most of those in order to arrive at the conclusion you do here.
What you're saying is in essence that you won't move from your understanding of God's word because you don't respect anyone elses understanding of God's word.
There is not one scripture that tells us we work to be in God's grace. No thing therefore that we imagine can take us out of God's grace.
God's grace is His gift to us. He calls whom He will to receive that gift and no one comes to God except through God's invitation, which is the deliverer of the covenant invitation, Immanuel. The kingdom of God is within us. We imagine separation because our human eyes are taken in by the material world. Our senses are instructed from birth to believe in this world and our own place within it.
God's message tells us this is the illusion that is first his creation as all things that exist are from and of Him.
When that calling, that resonance of truth, pings within us as we hear the Good News of awakening from the illusion of this temporal, temporary , world, that first tells us flesh is all and there is no God. Work to survive here and glorify in the effort with material things.
God's calling from within is that offering that alerts us his grace embraces us with more than we think.
And that is irrevocable, unrepented of on his part. He doesn't make mistakes, he doesn't know us before the foundation of the world, call us to awaken to his presence within , and then having lived within us as that living soul from whence we sprang as did the first Adam, later become surprised we're human and fallible. And as such, takes his gift back.
He remembers our sins no more when we reconcile ourselves to the truth that is God in Christ. To teach that we can then change God's mind , accrue sins and have him kick us to the damnation curb and thus we are no longer a member of the immortal agape love of his saving grace is how man thinks. It is not how God speaks the good news.
God is Agape.
Man is not.
Someone is always found to teach the counter Gospel. That it is not actually saying what Immanuel was born and died to make apparent as the new covenant between creator and the world.
It is not true teaching nor can it be sustained righteously, rightly, through the words of The Word "himself" in the true context of His words. However, what is teaching such things is someone's own life lived that way , in the falsity of their own imagining themselves worthy of that.
Where it is to be objected to is when they seek to convert the people who are in Christ to follow them.
1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.
The Word overcomes the words that are false. Word for word the false reveals itself when we know the words of God.
I'd warn you against judging all Christians using most as a concept. There are over 1 billion Christians on earth. You've not conversed with most of those in order to arrive at the conclusion you do here.
What you're saying is in essence that you won't move from your understanding of God's word because you don't respect anyone elses understanding of God's word.
There is not one scripture that tells us we work to be in God's grace. No thing therefore that we imagine can take us out of God's grace.
God's grace is His gift to us. He calls whom He will to receive that gift and no one comes to God except through God's invitation, which is the deliverer of the covenant invitation, Immanuel. The kingdom of God is within us. We imagine separation because our human eyes are taken in by the material world. Our senses are instructed from birth to believe in this world and our own place within it.
God's message tells us this is the illusion that is first his creation as all things that exist are from and of Him.
When that calling, that resonance of truth, pings within us as we hear the Good News of awakening from the illusion of this temporal, temporary , world, that first tells us flesh is all and there is no God. Work to survive here and glorify in the effort with material things.
God's calling from within is that offering that alerts us his grace embraces us with more than we think.
And that is irrevocable, unrepented of on his part. He doesn't make mistakes, he doesn't know us before the foundation of the world, call us to awaken to his presence within , and then having lived within us as that living soul from whence we sprang as did the first Adam, later become surprised we're human and fallible. And as such, takes his gift back.
He remembers our sins no more when we reconcile ourselves to the truth that is God in Christ. To teach that we can then change God's mind , accrue sins and have him kick us to the damnation curb and thus we are no longer a member of the immortal agape love of his saving grace is how man thinks. It is not how God speaks the good news.
God is Agape.
Man is not.
Someone is always found to teach the counter Gospel. That it is not actually saying what Immanuel was born and died to make apparent as the new covenant between creator and the world.
It is not true teaching nor can it be sustained righteously, rightly, through the words of The Word "himself" in the true context of His words. However, what is teaching such things is someone's own life lived that way , in the falsity of their own imagining themselves worthy of that.
Where it is to be objected to is when they seek to convert the people who are in Christ to follow them.
1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.
The Word overcomes the words that are false. Word for word the false reveals itself when we know the words of God.
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Who said anything about not doing the will of God, or trying to go against God's will just to do your own thing? I certainly didn't.
We should always seek God's will in all things, but there are some things you already know what God's will is, such as healing and deliverance, simply because,... it is written. And I believe what is written over what is acceptable to the church.
How is, God not wanting to give us the desires of our heart, not biblical?
Just off the top of my head it is written, if you delight yourself in him also he shall give you the desires of your heart.
And again and Mark 11:24 it is written, therefore what things soever you desire...
Again in John 15:7 it is written, if you abide in me and my words abide in you, you shall ask what you will and it shall be given to you.
That's just three and I can go on from there, but the point is that it is very scriptural for God to want to give you the desires of your heart that is his Delight, even as a parent it lights and giving their good children the things that they desire
Again it is written and Matthew 7:11, if you then being evil know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask.
The point is this, if you, being parent, who is nowhere near as loving as the father is to his children, want to give your children the things that they desire, how much more will your loving father in heaven give you the things that you want and desire?
We should always seek God's will in all things, but there are some things you already know what God's will is, such as healing and deliverance, simply because,... it is written. And I believe what is written over what is acceptable to the church.
How is, God not wanting to give us the desires of our heart, not biblical?
Just off the top of my head it is written, if you delight yourself in him also he shall give you the desires of your heart.
And again and Mark 11:24 it is written, therefore what things soever you desire...
Again in John 15:7 it is written, if you abide in me and my words abide in you, you shall ask what you will and it shall be given to you.
That's just three and I can go on from there, but the point is that it is very scriptural for God to want to give you the desires of your heart that is his Delight, even as a parent it lights and giving their good children the things that they desire
Again it is written and Matthew 7:11, if you then being evil know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask.
The point is this, if you, being parent, who is nowhere near as loving as the father is to his children, want to give your children the things that they desire, how much more will your loving father in heaven give you the things that you want and desire?
Before you reject something wouldn't it be better for you to at least here what I have to s,ay first?
I'm not saying you do this but I don't reject certain doctrines or theology just because I don't like the thought of it.
I don't like the thought of losing my salvation or being bumped off because I'm not bearing fruit or going in and out of the Kingdom of Heaven or in and out of Christ, but because of what I see in scripture I can't ignore or reject it, because I desire the truth.
I'm not saying you do this but I don't reject certain doctrines or theology just because I don't like the thought of it.
I don't like the thought of losing my salvation or being bumped off because I'm not bearing fruit or going in and out of the Kingdom of Heaven or in and out of Christ, but because of what I see in scripture I can't ignore or reject it, because I desire the truth.
I'm not judging call Christian, I'm simply voicing an observation I've made mostly on CC.
Many ask why they're sick and afflicted and yet will reject anything that doesn't agree with their denominational doctrines.
One of those things they reject is what faith is and how it works.
Again I have too much scriptural evidence proof contrary to once they've always saved.
I'm just the subject of o s a s alone, I have at least 52 pages of scripture with explanations.
I can indeed prove contrary to what you have said. I both believe and say what I do because of what scripture says.
I don't twist or add to scripture like many have done but I take it as it is written and I go from there and there are many verses in the Bible that call OSAS into question.
Many ask why they're sick and afflicted and yet will reject anything that doesn't agree with their denominational doctrines.
One of those things they reject is what faith is and how it works.
Again I have too much scriptural evidence proof contrary to once they've always saved.
I'm just the subject of o s a s alone, I have at least 52 pages of scripture with explanations.
I can indeed prove contrary to what you have said. I both believe and say what I do because of what scripture says.
I don't twist or add to scripture like many have done but I take it as it is written and I go from there and there are many verses in the Bible that call OSAS into question.
I don't really need to visit any Bible study or any group because I've already done my own extensive Bible studies, not to mention the many hours also that I saught God for the subjects in question.
For most things, I go to God personally in prayer and meditation for the truth and not to man, because many are biased and have the teachings of other men that has just gone down through the generations.
I have enough material and I hear well enough from God to go to him for the truth that I seek, so I don't need someone to try to teach me something when they can't even answer my questions.
I have seen the biases of Christians in general over and over again and I personally think I can do better finding the truth without them.
I would rather be led by God to the truth than by man.
Now there has been a couple of occasions where I have learned some things from Christian, things that I've read and heard, but for the most part, nothing that was ground shaking or Earth breaking.
I have been hearing things, from an inner voice, that no one has ever talked about and things I have never heard before, and I just don't get that from regular Bible studies. I only get that from God or the voice that I'm hearing from, which I believe is God speaking to me.
For most things, I go to God personally in prayer and meditation for the truth and not to man, because many are biased and have the teachings of other men that has just gone down through the generations.
I have enough material and I hear well enough from God to go to him for the truth that I seek, so I don't need someone to try to teach me something when they can't even answer my questions.
I have seen the biases of Christians in general over and over again and I personally think I can do better finding the truth without them.
I would rather be led by God to the truth than by man.
Now there has been a couple of occasions where I have learned some things from Christian, things that I've read and heard, but for the most part, nothing that was ground shaking or Earth breaking.
I have been hearing things, from an inner voice, that no one has ever talked about and things I have never heard before, and I just don't get that from regular Bible studies. I only get that from God or the voice that I'm hearing from, which I believe is God speaking to me.
As for your statement about Jesus being like Santa Claus fulfilling our wish list, I don't wish for anything because I know nothing will happen.
When I ask for something, I believe I have received, and therefore it shall be given to me according to the word of God, which is the will of God.
God doesn't do wishes, he does faith. He does what you believe for, according to his word and according to my life's experiences.
If all you are doing is hoping and wishing, then you will be at that forever with nothing happening and you will receive nothing from God, and that is a guarantee from the word of God. That is the way God is and the way he set things up.
You either believe and receive or you hope and wish and get nothing.
If you hoped and wished for your salvation then it never happened.
The same applies to every prayer, if you did not believe that you received then the possibility of you getting your request will be slim to none.
I don't hope and wish for anything like I said I expect the thing to manifest in the natural whatever it is.
When I ask for something, I believe I have received, and therefore it shall be given to me according to the word of God, which is the will of God.
God doesn't do wishes, he does faith. He does what you believe for, according to his word and according to my life's experiences.
If all you are doing is hoping and wishing, then you will be at that forever with nothing happening and you will receive nothing from God, and that is a guarantee from the word of God. That is the way God is and the way he set things up.
You either believe and receive or you hope and wish and get nothing.
If you hoped and wished for your salvation then it never happened.
The same applies to every prayer, if you did not believe that you received then the possibility of you getting your request will be slim to none.
I don't hope and wish for anything like I said I expect the thing to manifest in the natural whatever it is.
But you did judge most Christians with your observation that included your judgment saying, "most Christians....." There was no clarification that you were talking about certain Christians at Christian Chat.
Now you're saying that.
The eternal salvation topic is under scrutiny at a lot of Christian forums. There's a doctrine that is Arminian in origin but that apparently has flowed over into other through processes and teachings that don't identify as such. One that claims we can lose the gift God gave us. Salvation.
When the teachings of God himself, if we believe , accept, the Bible is the inspired eternal unchanging word of God, states that salvation is not our doing. Even faith that leads to salvation is not our doing. They are both God's gifts due to his first calling those whom he knew would respond to receive his gifts.
God wants no one to perish in their sins. In his eternal knowledge of all things God knows who are receptive to his saving grace. And who are not.
Thinking those that are first born to arrive in a fallen state when they're accountable for their choices, sins, are then able to toss off God's free irrevocable calling and gift, is error and misrepresenting, misreading, God's word. It indicates the believer in that is cleaving to the human nature that thinks itself superior to all things that are to be subject to it. That's hubris, egoism, egocentrism, and self-serving nature. That's what God's blanket gift of redemption heals in us.
We realize there is more than us. That we are a vessel to serve the will of God. Not to do the work for God.
God said he knows who will come to him, his son and eternal salvation. Those that say we can cast off that salvation through our own choice, actions, etc.... are saying, oops! God didn't see that coming when he called "me".
There are those that are nominal Christians. They claim to be Christian but they're not. God knows that too. We've all seen that type Christian. They're really bad behaving people but they wear a cross. Or they say they go to church on holidays. Christmas, Easter.
Otherwise, they party, get high, drunk, fool around on their wife, have sex with lots of women as a single man. Or with lots of men as a single woman. They lie. Name the sin, they do that. They look at homeless people and say, get a job! Rather than feel compassion and offer them a meal. Or money.
Here's a few really simple questions for someone to answer and put into perspective the whole debate as to whether someone can cast off salvation at their whim or through their actions. And really, who in their right mind would do that? Because they prefer Hell?
Is God all powerful and all knowing?
Did Jesus, who was God in flesh, say, no one can come to him, Salvation, unless the Father calls them? That no one comes to the Father except through Jesus?
Think of all that happens when we receive faith because the Gospel message resonates as truth with us. That is God leading us to that. Then think of all that happens when we repent and are redeemed in Christ. We're made new. All according to God's free gift of grace and his calling us.
Now imagine thinking, we can undo all that. We can reverse all that transpired to make us a new creation.
This may help. I went to YouTube to see if I could find a short video that would provide a synopsis of God's truth. And all that would have to transpire for what is often known as Arminianism to be true.
This is pretty good in my opinion. I was going to link the video. I think if someone is interested in this less than five minute video they'll seek out its title at www.youtube.com.
Can a christian lose salvation? Purchased by Jesus Christ God almighty in the flesh?
Now you're saying that.
The eternal salvation topic is under scrutiny at a lot of Christian forums. There's a doctrine that is Arminian in origin but that apparently has flowed over into other through processes and teachings that don't identify as such. One that claims we can lose the gift God gave us. Salvation.
When the teachings of God himself, if we believe , accept, the Bible is the inspired eternal unchanging word of God, states that salvation is not our doing. Even faith that leads to salvation is not our doing. They are both God's gifts due to his first calling those whom he knew would respond to receive his gifts.
God wants no one to perish in their sins. In his eternal knowledge of all things God knows who are receptive to his saving grace. And who are not.
Thinking those that are first born to arrive in a fallen state when they're accountable for their choices, sins, are then able to toss off God's free irrevocable calling and gift, is error and misrepresenting, misreading, God's word. It indicates the believer in that is cleaving to the human nature that thinks itself superior to all things that are to be subject to it. That's hubris, egoism, egocentrism, and self-serving nature. That's what God's blanket gift of redemption heals in us.
We realize there is more than us. That we are a vessel to serve the will of God. Not to do the work for God.
God said he knows who will come to him, his son and eternal salvation. Those that say we can cast off that salvation through our own choice, actions, etc.... are saying, oops! God didn't see that coming when he called "me".
There are those that are nominal Christians. They claim to be Christian but they're not. God knows that too. We've all seen that type Christian. They're really bad behaving people but they wear a cross. Or they say they go to church on holidays. Christmas, Easter.
Otherwise, they party, get high, drunk, fool around on their wife, have sex with lots of women as a single man. Or with lots of men as a single woman. They lie. Name the sin, they do that. They look at homeless people and say, get a job! Rather than feel compassion and offer them a meal. Or money.
Here's a few really simple questions for someone to answer and put into perspective the whole debate as to whether someone can cast off salvation at their whim or through their actions. And really, who in their right mind would do that? Because they prefer Hell?
Is God all powerful and all knowing?
Did Jesus, who was God in flesh, say, no one can come to him, Salvation, unless the Father calls them? That no one comes to the Father except through Jesus?
Think of all that happens when we receive faith because the Gospel message resonates as truth with us. That is God leading us to that. Then think of all that happens when we repent and are redeemed in Christ. We're made new. All according to God's free gift of grace and his calling us.
Now imagine thinking, we can undo all that. We can reverse all that transpired to make us a new creation.
This may help. I went to YouTube to see if I could find a short video that would provide a synopsis of God's truth. And all that would have to transpire for what is often known as Arminianism to be true.
This is pretty good in my opinion. I was going to link the video. I think if someone is interested in this less than five minute video they'll seek out its title at www.youtube.com.
Can a christian lose salvation? Purchased by Jesus Christ God almighty in the flesh?
Even though I think you're making an issue of nothing, I can see where I was judging others. You aren't trying to tell me that I was doing wrong by judging others, are you, cuz you're making it sound like I am,
Either way I see nothing wrong with what I did and my conscience is clear.
At the same time I think you misunderstood what I was saying.
I was doing the same as those taking a poll do, when I was referring to most Christian.
When a poll is made concerning a certain subject or subjects, they ask a small number of people, and from that number, they can get a pretty accurate picture of the overall opinion of the public.
I simply did the same thing concerning those who want to hear and know about faith and how it works, based on what years of experience on CC and and public circles.
The only time they seem to be interested is when I tell them what God has done in and for both my wife and myself.
Years ago I talked to a former ordained Baptist minister who turned atheist because he was moved more by what he experienced than by what the Bible said.
He told me that he died three different times and I think the last one was an hour and 15 minutes, and all he saw was Blackness or everything was just dark and that's it.
He never saw God and because of that experience, he turned from believing what the Bible said, to denying that God even existed. Even going so far as to try to convince me that I didn't really know whether God exists it or not. And this guy knew the Bible inside out because he was a minister for years, but like many Christians who put experiences above the word of God, especially when it comes to Healing, he fell away from believing.
As for your question about God knowing the end from the beginning, I think about the devil and Adam who both had the gift of God without any sin in their life to start with and fell away when they send, with no recourse.
My understanding of salvation has to do with being born again by the word of God, literally the words that we hear and receive is what saves us, the word or gospel itself.
And as I already pointed out which got ignored, so long as we keep that which we heard from the beginning in our hearts, we keep Christ or we will continue in Christ, as it's worded.
Jesus said except you eat his flesh and drink his blood you have no life in you.
Do you know what his flesh-and-blood is and how to both eat and drink his flesh and blood respectively?
The Bible says that Jesus is the truth and in him is no lie, and if we are from the truth and accept or receive a lie in place of the truth, then what did we just do with Christ?
As a side note, you should know that you can be out of the will of God, out of faith, out of the grace and favor of God, failing to walk in the spirit, and even disobeying the voice of the spirit, and many other things, in certain or different areas, and still be a born-again child of God.
Anyway, my synopsis concerning once saved always saved is, we are saved by the word of God itself, which is truth, and if we reject the truth and fall into error after we've been in the truth and accept a lie in its place concerning the Gospel of Jesus Christ, such as working for yourself fashion, trying to be good enough, and the like, then we have in a sense rejected Christ.
Either way I see nothing wrong with what I did and my conscience is clear.
At the same time I think you misunderstood what I was saying.
I was doing the same as those taking a poll do, when I was referring to most Christian.
When a poll is made concerning a certain subject or subjects, they ask a small number of people, and from that number, they can get a pretty accurate picture of the overall opinion of the public.
I simply did the same thing concerning those who want to hear and know about faith and how it works, based on what years of experience on CC and and public circles.
The only time they seem to be interested is when I tell them what God has done in and for both my wife and myself.
Years ago I talked to a former ordained Baptist minister who turned atheist because he was moved more by what he experienced than by what the Bible said.
He told me that he died three different times and I think the last one was an hour and 15 minutes, and all he saw was Blackness or everything was just dark and that's it.
He never saw God and because of that experience, he turned from believing what the Bible said, to denying that God even existed. Even going so far as to try to convince me that I didn't really know whether God exists it or not. And this guy knew the Bible inside out because he was a minister for years, but like many Christians who put experiences above the word of God, especially when it comes to Healing, he fell away from believing.
As for your question about God knowing the end from the beginning, I think about the devil and Adam who both had the gift of God without any sin in their life to start with and fell away when they send, with no recourse.
My understanding of salvation has to do with being born again by the word of God, literally the words that we hear and receive is what saves us, the word or gospel itself.
And as I already pointed out which got ignored, so long as we keep that which we heard from the beginning in our hearts, we keep Christ or we will continue in Christ, as it's worded.
Jesus said except you eat his flesh and drink his blood you have no life in you.
Do you know what his flesh-and-blood is and how to both eat and drink his flesh and blood respectively?
The Bible says that Jesus is the truth and in him is no lie, and if we are from the truth and accept or receive a lie in place of the truth, then what did we just do with Christ?
As a side note, you should know that you can be out of the will of God, out of faith, out of the grace and favor of God, failing to walk in the spirit, and even disobeying the voice of the spirit, and many other things, in certain or different areas, and still be a born-again child of God.
Anyway, my synopsis concerning once saved always saved is, we are saved by the word of God itself, which is truth, and if we reject the truth and fall into error after we've been in the truth and accept a lie in its place concerning the Gospel of Jesus Christ, such as working for yourself fashion, trying to be good enough, and the like, then we have in a sense rejected Christ.
Now who's doing the judging?
If anyone can prove me wrong scripturally, I would gladly change, but until then, I believe with all my heart and with a clear conscience that it is I who has the truth.
As for my knowledge of scripture concerning the subjects of discussion, I believe that if I were to go to any Bible teaching that I would be taking at least a few steps backwards in my knowledge and understanding. Most of it is just baby food that a non-believer
could see in Scripture.
But what do I know since I'm so ignorant and unlearned, scripturally speaking.
If anyone can prove me wrong scripturally, I would gladly change, but until then, I believe with all my heart and with a clear conscience that it is I who has the truth.
As for my knowledge of scripture concerning the subjects of discussion, I believe that if I were to go to any Bible teaching that I would be taking at least a few steps backwards in my knowledge and understanding. Most of it is just baby food that a non-believer
could see in Scripture.
But what do I know since I'm so ignorant and unlearned, scripturally speaking.