Is it wrong to drink alcohol?

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Jan 6, 2018
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#21
Hosea 4:11 Whoredom and wine and new wine take away the heart.

Take away the heart does not equal getting drunk on alcohol. The context is how God is against this people because they reject that there is a God. They eat, they drink, they have their full. They live as they want with no consideration that there is a God. New wine is found in the clusters. That's grape juice. Old wine, or fermented, spoiled wine is not found in the clusters but through a fermentation process.

New wine can be made by squeezing a bunch of grapes into a cup according to the below verse.

Genesis 40:11 And Pharaoh's cup was in my hand: and I took the grapes, and pressed them into Pharaoh's cup, and I gave the cup into Pharaoh's hand.
It does not make sense for you to say plain grape juice takes away your senses:

The Lord says, “Wine, both old and new, is robbing my people of their senses!
Hosea 4:11 GNT
https://bible.com/bible/68/hos.4.11.GNT
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#22
Let's get the entire context.

Hosea 4
1 Hear the word of the Lord, ye children of Israel: for the Lord hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land, because there is no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land.
2 By swearing, and lying, and killing, and stealing, and committing adultery, they break out, and blood toucheth blood.
3 Therefore shall the land mourn, and every one that dwelleth therein shall languish, with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven; yea, the fishes of the sea also shall be taken away.
4 Yet let no man strive, nor reprove another: for thy people are as they that strive with the priest.
5 Therefore shalt thou fall in the day, and the prophet also shall fall with thee in the night, and I will destroy thy mother.
6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
7 As they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame.
8 They eat up the sin of my people, and they set their heart on their iniquity.
9 And there shall be, like people, like priest: and I will punish them for their ways, and reward them their doings.
10 For they shall eat, and not have enough: they shall commit whoredom, and shall not increase: because they have left off to take heed to the Lord.
11 Whoredom and wine and new wine take away the heart.


The context is how Israel has rejected God's word. Eating and drinking in abundance, committing whoredom, etc., is connected with a lifestyle of living without giving God any thought. God's declaring their future judgment.
 
Jan 6, 2018
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#23
Let's get the entire context.

Hosea 4
1 Hear the word of the Lord, ye children of Israel: for the Lord hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land, because there is no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land.
2 By swearing, and lying, and killing, and stealing, and committing adultery, they break out, and blood toucheth blood.
3 Therefore shall the land mourn, and every one that dwelleth therein shall languish, with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven; yea, the fishes of the sea also shall be taken away.
4 Yet let no man strive, nor reprove another: for thy people are as they that strive with the priest.
5 Therefore shalt thou fall in the day, and the prophet also shall fall with thee in the night, and I will destroy thy mother.
6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
7 As they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame.
8 They eat up the sin of my people, and they set their heart on their iniquity.
9 And there shall be, like people, like priest: and I will punish them for their ways, and reward them their doings.
10 For they shall eat, and not have enough: they shall commit whoredom, and shall not increase: because they have left off to take heed to the Lord.
11 Whoredom and wine and new wine take away the heart.


The context is how Israel has rejected God's word. Eating and drinking in abundance, committing whoredom, etc., is connected with a lifestyle of living without giving God any thought. God's declaring their future judgment.
So you are saying old wine doesn't take away your senses due to alcohol?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#24
So you are saying old wine doesn't take away your senses due to alcohol?
Of course it does. New wine can as well if you drink without the knowledge of God. The same for eating food. Israel was given blessings from God, but they continued to reject Him. Food and drink will never satisfy, but obeying the word of the Lord.
 
Jan 6, 2018
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#25
Of course it does. New wine can as well if you drink without the knowledge of God. The same for eating food. Israel was given blessings from God, but they continued to reject Him. Food and drink will never satisfy, but obeying the word of the Lord.
But you are claiming that new wine is just grape juice. It does not make sense for you to claim that drinking grape juice takes away your senses.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#26
But you are claiming that new wine is just grape juice. It does not make sense for you to claim that drinking grape juice takes away your senses.
Sure it can. Eating food can "take away the heart." It is an attitude problem of worldly living and rejecting the word of God.

Answer me this then: What is wine? What is new wine?
 
Jan 6, 2018
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#27
Sure it can. Eating food can "take away the heart." It is an attitude problem of worldly living and rejecting the word of God.

Answer me this then: What is wine? What is new wine?
Wine is wine and it all makes you drunk if you drink too much even at the Lord's Supper 1 Cor 11:20.
 

Demi777

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2014
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Germany
#29
My answer would be no, as long as you only drink in moderation. Of course many people should never drink. And I think the USA made a wise choice to prohibit alcohol for people under 21. Here in europe 16-year-olds are already old enough to drink which caused many disasters.

Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities. 1 Timothy 5:23

Take a step back on that europe disaster part. In the states there are more problems with teens getting drunk because itsI not allowed and rebellion follows it.
If parentsu taught their kids that u can have fun without being drunk, we would have less problems. Its not the age, its the peoüle u surround urself with and what and how you arewant taught,.
Plus u are not allowed to drink all sorts of alcohol at 16. Ur making it worse than it is. Harf alcohol is 18.
 
Jan 6, 2018
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#30
Sure it can. Eating food can "take away the heart." It is an attitude problem of worldly living and rejecting the word of God.

Answer me this then: What is wine? What is new wine?
Bible translations try to keep up with the vernacular of the culture. As far as I can remember when ordering wine or looking for it on the shelf, I have never had to specify or be asked " do you want new wine or old wine sir?" Instead, if I wanted grape juice I ask for grape juice. No modern Bible translation uses "grape juice". Don't you think at least a couple of translation boards would have used "grape juice" by now to avoid any confusion? The fact is new wine and old wine are alcoholic drinks in Bible times and today.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#31
Bible translations try to keep up with the vernacular of the culture. As far as I can remember when ordering wine or looking for it on the shelf, I have never had to specify or be asked " do you want new wine or old wine sir?" Instead, if I wanted grape juice I ask for grape juice. No modern Bible translation uses "grape juice". Don't you think at least a couple of translation boards would have used "grape juice" by now to avoid any confusion? The fact is new wine and old wine are alcoholic drinks in Bible times and today.
Scripture will define itself. Who cares how modern day defines wine. Scripture makes a clear distinction between wine and wine that is strong drink. New wine is found in the cluster. Alcohol is not found in the cluster.

Why the two terms? New wine and wine?
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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#32
well, the greek word for wine, used 32 times in the N.T. is oinos- which is used and defined as new wine or wine. it is also the same word when God's wrath is described as wine.

so, since the word could mean either / or, let's not insist on it meaning one and not the other.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#33
Jesus Christ is clear on this subject.

Nothing by entering the body will corrupt the body.

It is what proceeds from the heart of a man that will corrupt him, murders, adulteries, corruptions of al sorts, all coveting..........

If alcohol does not control the person that person is not in sinning when he drinks, but I must warn people who say "all thing sin moderation"" in regards to drinking alcohol, this is like referring to someone as a social drinker........that is habitual
 
Jan 6, 2018
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#34
Scripture will define itself. Who cares how modern day defines wine. Scripture makes a clear distinction between wine and wine that is strong drink. New wine is found in the cluster. Alcohol is not found in the cluster.

Why the two terms? New wine and wine?
That is not saying new wine is grape juice in the grapes but that good can come from not destroying it. This is a better way of saying it for a modern reader :
The Lord says, “No one destroys good grapes; instead, they make wine with them. Neither will I destroy all my people—I will save those who serve me.
Isaiah 65:8 GNT
https://bible.com/bible/68/isa.65.8.GNT
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
13,928
2,861
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#35
Jesus Christ is clear on this subject.

Nothing by entering the body will corrupt the body.

It is what proceeds from the heart of a man that will corrupt him, murders, adulteries, corruptions of al sorts, all coveting..........

If alcohol does not control the person that person is not in sinning when he drinks, but I must warn people who say "all thing sin moderation"" in regards to drinking alcohol, this is like referring to someone as a social drinker........that is habitual
That is not saying new wine is grape juice in the grapes but that good can come from not destroying it. This is a better way of saying it for a modern reader :
The Lord says, “No one destroys good grapes; instead, they make wine with them. Neither will I destroy all my people—I will save those who serve me.
Isaiah 65:8 GNT
https://bible.com/bible/68/isa.65.8.GNT
I'll stick with what Scripture actually says. Thank you. Your GNT translates it wrong as it does in Numbers 6.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#36
I'll stick with what Scripture actually says. Thank you. Your GNT translates it wrong as it does in Numbers 6.
My response is to the OP........as for "new wine" being or not being grape juice.......I think the translations have been accurate on degrees of alcoholic beverages since Moses.
 
M

Miri

Guest
#37
I have never really drank, other then the occasional sip of something to
see what it tastes like. Partly out of curiosity and partly when I’m making
stews etc which have wine or something else as an ingredient.

I did go to a friends 18th birthday party long long time ago and I tried
a very small amount of something which tasted horrible.

On occasions at Christmas I have bought a tiny bottle of Baileys Irish cream to use as
a liquor in coffee, but even that has been just a small amout. But ive not
even done that for years.

I don’t think it’s a sin to drink, but it can lead to wrong doing and thinking.
Even in moderation, it causes some effects, loosens tongues, relaxes
inhibitions, gives an artificial sense of well being, relaxes the mind - not always
for good reasons.

That’s pretty much why people drink for the changes it makes in a person even just
drinking a small amount. The other reason is to be sociable and to be accepted by
peers, work colleagues, friends etc. For some they may just like the taste (I’ve never
found anythjng I actually like the taste of).

Anyway none of the above applies to me, I’ve never felt the need to drink to fit in
or to be sociable, or to wind down etc. I don’t need artificial stimulants to have
an enjoyable time. So I don’t drink.

What I have seen is how alcohol destroys lives, one of my brothers was an alcoholic
he nearly died due to his lifestyle.

So no it’s not a sin but it can lead to sin and it reduces self control.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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#39
Are there any medical. reasons?
A lot of medicines use alcohol as a solvent in the preparation of the medicine. It allows for the combination of other chemicals to form the correct compound to treat illness.

Cough syrup has alcohol in it as its base. They have had to modify the mixtures to prevent children from drinking them and becoming intoxicated.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
M

Miri

Guest
#40
A lot of medicines use alcohol as a solvent in the preparation of the medicine. It allows for the combination of other chemicals to form the correct compound to treat illness.

Cough syrup has alcohol in it as its base. They have had to modify the mixtures to prevent children from drinking them and becoming intoxicated.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
That’s not the same as drinking alcohol as referred to in the thread.

I just queried the post as there may be people who think alcohol should be
consumed for medicinal purposes, ie those old movies when people had a tipple
for shock, or drank half a bottle before having a tooth pulled etc. I think we are past
that now with modern medicine.

There are also different kinds of alcohol used for other purposes, ethanol for
example.