Is Jesus God?

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Mar 12, 2014
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#41
In Hebrew there were hosts of gods or Elohiym: Moses was called an Elohiym.

Deuteronomy 4:7 For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them,
as the LORD [yehôvâh] our God is in all things that we call upon him for?

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD [yehôvâh] our God [’ĕlôhı̂ym] is one LORD:
 
P

paulsfam4

Guest
#42
matt 11:27 All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
 
D

Daley

Guest
#43
I can help you understand that. I will try to be brief but still thorough.

The most important thing that you need to understand is that in the Jewish Culture, "SON OF" did not always mean "OFFSPRING OF", whereas in our culture it almost always does mean offspring. "SON OF" in the Jewish Culture frequently is used as a TITLE that identifies who has the right to inherit all that the Father has. It literally identifies the heir to the property, whether that be an offspring or someone else. It can also be called the "Birthright". Which can be given to anyone that the father chooses to give it too. If he (let's call him Joseph) was not pleased with the lifestyle of his sons, (say they were drunkards), the father can GIVE THE TITLE and thereby NAME even a servant SON OF JOSEPH, and it was legally binding and no relative could fight it. Thus it was understood that the servant who was given the title SON OF JOSEPH would inherit everything AND carry out the will of the father during his lifetime and afterwards.

NOW since GOD the FATHER is never going to die, the focus of the title SON OF GOD, is purely on the co-equal ownership of all that the Father has, INCLUDING HIS DEITY, and the fact that the one given the TITLE "SON OF GOD" is the one that carries out the WILL OF THE FATHER.

How do we know it does not mean "OFFSPRING" in the case of JESUS:

Isaiah 43:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] "You are My witnesses," declares the LORD, "And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] "I, even I, am the LORD, And there is no savior besides Me.

There it says it VERY CLEARLY, there NEVER WILL BE ANY OTHER GOD, and Offspring of GOD would be a second GOD.
AND - - - - - - - THERE IS NO OTHER SAVIOR BESIDES GOD.

Does that mean that the Spirit inside the body we call JESUS was GOD?

ABSOLUTELY!

2 Corinthians 5:18-19 (NKJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
[SUP]19 [/SUP] that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.


Here is another bit of information that will help you understand the Jewish use of the TITLE "SON OF".

John 1:45 (NASB)
[SUP]45 [/SUP] Philip *found Nathanael and *said to him, "We have found Him of whom Moses in the Law and also the Prophets wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph."

Was Jesus actually Offspring of Joseph? NO! However this may be an indication that JOSEPH did give him the birthright TITLE "Son of Joseph", because we DO HAVE evidence that JESUS did inherit the Property of Joseph.

Bear in mind that we ONLY HAVE THE HIGHLIGHTS of the life of Jesus:

John 21:25 (NKJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen.

Now, when Jesus goes to the Cross there is absolutely no mention of Joseph at all, in fact there is clear evidence that Joseph is already dead, perhaps he died of a heart attack. AND there is clear evidence that Jesus as "Son of Joseph" inherited the property of Joseph. What you may not understand, is unlike our culture, it was illegal for a woman to inherit property, it had to be registered in a male's name only. So Mary could not inherit the property of Joseph. NOW watch the the Jewish legally binding passing of the property of Joseph, before Jesus died on the Cross:

John 19:25-27 (HCSB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Standing by the cross of Jesus were His mother, His mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. (The required by law two or three witnesses were present.)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] When Jesus saw His mother and the disciple He (John) loved standing there, He said to His mother, “Woman, here is your son.”
[SUP]27 [/SUP] Then He said to the disciple, “Here is your mother.” And from that hour the disciple took her into his home.
See it? JESUS who inherited the property of Joseph, chose another according to Jewish Laws, because He was about to die. Naming one not of the immediate family, the "Son of Joseph", heir to the property of Joseph, so that he, JOHN, would have the finances to take care of His Mother Mary. Why did Jesus choose John, instead of one of His brothers, who were Offsprings of Joseph? Because as of that time, none of His brothers had yet come to believe in Him as LORD.

In conclusion, God chose part of Himself to inherit all that the FATHER has, including His Deity, and to carry out HIS will, thus JESUS has the TITLE, "SON OF GOD", which does not mean Offspring of GOD.

Hebrews 1:2-3 (HCSB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] In these last days, He has spoken to us by ⌊His⌋ Son. God has appointed Him heir of all things and made the universe through Him.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact expression of His nature, sustaining all things by His powerful word. After making purification for sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.

Philippians 2:6 (NKJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
If I have a son, he will be human just as I am, he will have my blood in his veins, he will have my nature. So if God has a Son, his Son will also have his nature. There is nothing in the Father that is not in the Son, this is why they are equal in nature, and this is why the Bible proclaims that by calling God his Father Jesus was claiming equality with God in John 5:18. We are sons of God by adoption, but Jesus is Son of God by nature.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#44
In Hebrew there were hosts of gods or Elohiym: Moses was called an Elohiym.

Deuteronomy 4:7 For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them,
as the LORD [yehôvâh] our God is in all things that we call upon him for?

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD [yehôvâh] our God [’ĕlôhı̂ym] is one LORD:
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#45
Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord,
which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power,
according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Philippians 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
1John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
1John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

What the infinite Almighty wants us to know for our spiritual growth is revealed through Jesus of Nazareth: to be Messiah he had to be a man and so he is declared to be. Trinitarians want Jesus of Nazareth to be one of the THREE EQUAL AND AGREEABLE ETERNAL MEMBERS OF A FAMILY OF GOD: that is polytheism
 
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Nov 19, 2012
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#46
Not too sure what you are trying to say here brother Bowman. I would think by your avatar that surely you must agree with the fact that the Father of Jesus is the Holy Spirit and Jesus is the Son of God and The God is the Holy Spirit.
You look...but you cannot see.

That is NOT what the Trinity shield states.
 
Nov 19, 2012
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#47
Aye I have read it lol. But it would seem to me that what it says he believes God IS is also the same things as what it says each IS NOT.

Kind of a paradoxical avatar I realize, but regardless of that. Does not our brother believe that Jesus, His Father, and His Holy Spirit are all God? Ironically therefore the "IS NOTS" should be rendered as "IS".

But its not my avatar lol, was kinda hoping he'd explain that himself for my better understanding of his understanding.

The Trinity shield is straight forward Biblical logic.

There are twelve deity combinations representing the Trinity.
 
Nov 19, 2012
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#48
Jesus is God. The best explanation I have heard to explain the trinity to those who are not well studied into the word is this....water, ice, steam all are different in appearance but made up of the same molecules. Just like God, Son, and Holy Spirit are different forms of the same.
Even that example is flawed...as each is the other.

In the Trinity each is NOT the other.....but each IS the one God.

A better example would be:


1 = 1 = 1
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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#49
Interesting . I don't know that Christians are allowed to question stuff about their religion like How come Jesus has a mother if he is God ?..etc and Sofia's question : Is Jesus God ?


Here's the Islamic answer for your question . Is Jesus Christ God ? - YouTube
I hope this won't bother ppl here coz It's always interesting to know what the 3 divine religions say about Jesus ( peace be upon him )
That too is easy to answer. PRIMARILY it happened that way because it was Prophesied by GOD through the Prophet Isaiah:

Isaiah 7:13-14 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Isaiah said, “Listen, house of David! Is it not enough for you to try the patience of men? Will you also try the patience of my God?
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Therefore, the Lord Himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive, have a son, and name him Immanuel.

Matthew 1:22-23 (HCSB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Now all this took place to fulfill what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet:
[SUP]23 [/SUP] See, the virgin will become pregnant and give birth to a son, and they will name Him Immanuel, which is translated “God is with us.”

Matthew 1:20 (HCSB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But after he had considered these things, an angel of the Lord suddenly appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, don’t be afraid to take Mary as your wife, because what has been conceived in her is by the Holy Spirit.

In other words GOD created in the womb of Mary a body that part of Himself could enter and be born a man. Why do I say "part of Himself" instead of all of Himself? Because one of the Characteristics of the nature of GOD, is His OMNIPRESENCE. (Which I believe means always present in ever cubic inch of heaven and the universe, AND ALSO EVERY SECOND OF TIME AS WE KNOW IT; but that is another lesson.) GOD cannot stop being OMNIPRESENT without ceasing to be GOD, therefore only part of GOD could be present in the body of Jesus. We have within us a created human spirit, and the difference between JESUS and us is simply this: Our human spirit in us was created by the CREATOR; while the Spirit in JESUS IS THE CREATOR.

Zechariah 12:1 (HCSB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] An Oracle The word of the LORD concerning Israel. A declaration of the LORD, who stretched out the heavens, laid the foundation of the earth, and formed the spirit of man within him.

2 Corinthians 5:18-19 (NKJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, [SUP]19 [/SUP]that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.


So WHY would GOD want to partially exist in a HUMAN BODY? Primarily because of GOD's own definition of the ULTIMATE form of LOVE.

John 15:13 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] No one has greater love than this, that someone would lay down his life for his friends.

Therefore, if GOD Himself did not lay down His own life for our sins, then GOD's LOVE would be less than what a man could do. The problem GOD was faced with in defining the greatest form of Love that way, is GOD IS ETERNAL, meaning He cannot die. THEREFORE, He had to become INCARNATE, to fulfill HIS OWN DEFINITION OF THE GREATEST FORM OF LOVE.

Luke 1:32 (HCSB)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David.

THAT required a BLOODLINE traceable to DAVID, and both Joseph and Mary had bloodlines that traced back to David, but JESUS had to born of a woman with that correct bloodline. WHY? Because the Prophecies about MESSIAH rising to take the THRONE OF DAVID, could ONLY be fulfilled through the bloodline of Mary, because Jeconiah is in the bloodline of Joseph, and GOD pronounced this curse on the descendants of Jeconiah:

[h=1]Jeremiah 22:30[/h]
30 This is what the Lord says:
“Record this man as if childless,
a man who will not prosper in his lifetime,
for none of his offspring will prosper,
none will sit on the throne of David
or rule anymore in Judah.”






 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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#50
If I have a son, he will be human just as I am, he will have my blood in his veins, he will have my nature. So if God has a Son, his Son will also have his nature. There is nothing in the Father that is not in the Son, this is why they are equal in nature, and this is why the Bible proclaims that by calling God his Father Jesus was claiming equality with God in John 5:18. We are sons of God by adoption, but Jesus is Son of God by nature.
YET there is ONLY ONE GOD, and all three Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are that ONE GOD.
 
Dec 18, 2013
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#51
Even that example is flawed...as each is the other.

In the Trinity each is NOT the other.....but each IS the one God.

A better example would be:


1 = 1 = 1
(and to answer the other repleis too)

If 1 = 1 = 1 then each would still be 1.

Therefore would it not stand to reason that The Father is the Son and Holy Spirit, The Son is the Father and Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is the Father and the Son?

As for 12 deity combinations I have not heard of this before. Could you explain that for me a little better?
 
Nov 19, 2012
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#52
(and to answer the other repleis too)

If 1 = 1 = 1 then each would still be 1.
One God.



Therefore would it not stand to reason that The Father is the Son and Holy Spirit, The Son is the Father and Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is the Father and the Son?
No.

Each '1' is NOT the other '1'....but each '1' is exactly equal to the other.

The Trinity.





As for 12 deity combinations I have not heard of this before. Could you explain that for me a little better?
The concept of the Biblical Trinity can be visualized by the Trinity Shield.

There are twelve possible deity combinations as thus.


  • The Father is God (2 Cor 1.3, Eph 1.3, John 17.3; 1 Cor. 8.6; 1 Peter 1.3)
  • God is the Father (2 Cor 1.3, Eph 1.3, John 17.3; 1 Cor. 8.6; 1 Peter 1.3)
  • The Son is God (Titus 2.13; 2 Peter 1.1; John 1.3, 1 Cor. 8.6; Col 1.16-17; Heb. 1.2; Rev. 3.14; Heb. 1.10-12; 13.8; John 1.1; 8.58; 17.5; Col. 1.17; Heb. 1.2; John 16.30; Matt. 18.20; 28.20; John 3.13; Eph. 1.23; 4.10; Col. 3.11)
  • God is the Son (Titus 2.13; 2 Peter 1.1; John 1.3, 1 Cor. 8.6; Col 1.16-17; Heb. 1.2; Rev. 3.14; Heb. 1.10-12; 13.8; John 1.1; 8.58; 17.5; Col. 1.17; Heb. 1.2; John 16.30; Matt. 18.20; 28.20; John 3.13; Eph. 1.23; 4.10; Col. 3.11)
  • The Spirit is God (Acts 5.3-4, Cor 3.17-18, Gen. 1.2; Psa. 104.30, Matt. 1.18,20; Luke 1.35; Rom. 1.4; 8.11; Heb. 9.14; 1 Cor. 2.10-11; Psa. 139.7; Rom. 8.1-27)
  • God is the Spirit (Acts 5.3-4, Cor 3.17-18, Gen. 1.2; Psa. 104.30, Matt. 1.18,20; Luke 1.35; Rom. 1.4; 8.11; Heb. 9.14; 1 Cor. 2.10-11; Psa. 139.7; Rom. 8.1-27)
  • The Father is not the Son (John 3.17, 35; 5.22-23, 31-32; 8.16-18; 11.41-42; 12.28; 14.31; 17.1-26; Rom. 1.7; 1 Cor. 1.3; 15.24-28; 2 Cor. 1.2; Gal. 1.3; 4.4; Eph. 1.2; 6.23; Phil. 1.2; 1 Thess. 1.1; 2 Thess. 1.1-2; 1 Tim. 1.1-2; 2 Tim. 1.2; Tit. 1.4; Phm. 3; James 1.1; 2 Pet. 1.2; 1 John 4.10; 2 John 3)
  • The Son is not the Father (John 3.17, 35; 5.22-23, 31-32; 8.16-18; 11.41-42; 12.28; 14.31; 17.1-26; Rom. 1.7; 1 Cor. 1.3; 15.24-28; 2 Cor. 1.2; Gal. 1.3; 4.4; Eph. 1.2; 6.23; Phil. 1.2; 1 Thess. 1.1; 2 Thess. 1.1-2; 1 Tim. 1.1-2; 2 Tim. 1.2; Tit. 1.4; Phm. 3; James 1.1; 2 Pet. 1.2; 1 John 4.10; 2 John 3)
  • The Son is not the Spirit (Mat 28.19; John 14.16, 15.26, 16.7)
  • The Spirit is not the Son (Mat 28.19; John 14.16, 15.26, 16.7)
  • The Spirit is not the Father (Mat 28.19; John 14.16, 15.26; Romans 8.26-27; Luke 3.21-22)
  • The Father is not the Spirit (Mat 28.19; John 14.16, 15.26; Romans 8.26-27; Luke 3.21-22)



 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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#54
lol!



One sentence later.....

A MILE LONG POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ^________^



LOL, no Taylor that really was a short post for me, LOL. For example before I ever tried to restrain myself, my sister-inlaws once asked me to explain why I did not believe in the modern day tongues movement. That was before the computer age even, I studied it out thoroughly, for six months even. Researched it, read books, looked up historical documentation, did personal interviews, word studies, listened to a multitude of tapes, and then sat down to write my explanation by hand. Twenty seven pages later, with my head still reeling with additional information, it hit me, if they will not believe what I already wrote, another dozen pages or so, will not help any more. So I ended it at twenty seven typed pages. Did it help validate that a non-charismatic position, can be supported biblically? Must have, one said she felt guilty about her tongues speaking afterwards, but two days later decided that I led by the devil to make her feel guilty. The other just got mad at me. But before I wrote it, they both laughed when I said I would be happy to write a biblical explanation after I studied it out thoroughly, because they doubted that I could prove any of my non-charismatic beliefs.

Good to bump into you again. I trust the Lord has been blessing you. We moved to Nevada, Fallon to be exact. Home of the US Navy's TOP GUN School. It is cool hearing the fighters take off. :)
 
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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#55
Here's the Islamic answer for your question . Is Jesus Christ God ? - YouTube
I hope this won't bother ppl here coz It's always interesting to know what the 3 divine religions say about Jesus ( peace be upon him )

i don't agree with what was said in the video, but thank you for putting it so we can know what Islam says about Christ. it is interesting to know what the religions that sprang from the seed of Abraham say.

most of his argument is the mystery that God would manifest Himself in the flesh - how unthinkable!
but the Qur'an also teaches that God is merciful, and compassionate, and that God does not consult man before doing His great works, does it not? and doesn't Islam teach that a new revelation of God may confound what men believed before the extent of truth was shown to them?
so consider this:
Jesus Christ is salvation. He is the utmost expression of the mercy and compassion of God. that God would show such grace to mankind, who is utterly unworthy of it - how great is God!
if you accept that Christ was sent from God, then accept the truth and revelation that He brought:
"
I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
this Jesus was more than any mere prophet. no true prophet of God lifts his own name up equal to God, but Christ said that all authority was given to Him,
"
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."
He forgave sins. He came to forgive sins. He was and is the embodiment of God in flesh. it is certainly a great mystery! but it is the greatness of God that He has done this. as His apostle wrote:

But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty
(1 Corinthians 1:27)
the pure in heart do not come to God through logic and reason and cleverness, but by faith, because they hear God call them, and they answer.

remember also this: the reason Jesus was crucified.
we do not have all the words that He spoke, or all that He did recorded for us. but we know that it was enough that the high priest condemned Him for blasphemy - for claiming to be equal with God.
this question has been to court, and the matter was settled.

Interesting . I don't know that Christians are allowed to question stuff about their religion like How come Jesus has a mother if he is God ?..etc and Sofia's question : Is Jesus God ?


this is interesting too - i will not condemn anyone for asking such questions, and we even read of prophets questioning God's ways - like Habbakuk, and Jonah, and Jeremiah, and also Job - while God may see fit to answer, His answer three times is this:
can the potter not do as He will with the clay?
anyone can ask such questions. whether it is wiser to ask, or to humbly accept what God has said, this is another question.

God would have us be sure, i believe, and why else did Christ work so many miracles! but i do not think God likes to repeat Himself to us: He expects that we hear, and believe, and doesn't wish that we need to be chastened.


 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#57
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which He hath purchased with his own blood.

Any other Blood than the God/man would have been insufficient to cleanse our sin.
 
T

The_highwayman

Guest
#58
nah,

we love talking about Jesus here :)


looking forward to thread # 1,000,002
This thread is nothing about Jesus and all about a troll starting a oneness debate....stop casting pearls before swine...
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#60
It's pretty easy to take the glory away from the MAN JESUS whom God MADE TO BE Both Lord and Christ. He became a son by obeying the father. He said that He did not speak on his own but only what He (Jesus) heard from the Father. We are IN God in the same sense that God is IN us when we obey Him. IN does not mean INSIDE OF.

I am Body + Soul + Spirit
My body is not my soul
My Soul is not my body
My Soul is not my spirit

In 1 Corinthians Paul made it clear

The Spirit OF (preposition) God
.....is to God
What the spirit OF man
.....is to man
Which Paul made clear But We have the MIND of Christ.

The Father CONCEIVES
The Father BREATHS (Spirit)
The Son Articulates ONLY what He hears breathed (spirit) without metron meaning meter. That is because the LOGOS or Regulaltive Principle is the OPPOSITE of poetry, music or human speak.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his NAMED shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

He will be ADDRESSED but He will not BE Jehovah but the IMAGE or what God wants us to know about. They NAMED Him Jesus

H410 ’êl ale Shortened from H352 ; strength; as adjective mighty; especially the Almighty (but used also of any deity):—God (god), X goodly, X great, idol, might (-y one), power, strong. Compare names in “-el.”

H352 ’ayil ah'-yil From the same as H193 ; properly strength; hence anything strong; specifically a chief (politically); also a ram (from his strength); a pilaster (as a strong support); an oak or other strong tree:—mighty (man), lintel, oak, post, ram, tree.

Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord,
which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power,
according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: