Is Jesus preventing understanding?

[OwenHeidenreich]

Don't get me wrong, this is how i currently interpret mark 4:10-12

10 When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. 11 He told them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables 12 so that,
“‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,
and ever hearing but never understanding;
otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!’[a]”




SO he said, "Everything is in parables so that they may see, but they will not percieve. they may hear my words, but they will not understand because if they understand they might turn and be forgiven!"

???

he does not want them to understand because they "might turn and be forgiven"?

 

[Blain]

No that's not it at all, the first thing Jesus wants is for them to turn and be forgiven. But people are to blind to turn and be forgiven.

 

[Hungry]

I think He prefers us to seek and find rather than handed over to be discarded.

 

[NiceneCreed]

I think what it means is that, Christ was not going to speak to the Jews on their terms. The Jews thought the Messiah was going to come in riding on a horse and that He would conquer the earth by force. I suppose He was saying that parables were sufficient for people to come to believe in Him, if they really desired salvation. Jesus, however, was not willing to compromise by lowering Himself to fulfill the expectations the Jews had about the Messiah. That's just my guess, anyway. Hopefully I didn't apply a "feels-right approach."


Grace and Peace!

 

[OwenHeidenreich]

ok right, i read the word "otherwise" in a different connotation. thanks

 

[NiceneCreed]

I think you are correct! The Jews were expecting the Messiah to usher in a kingdom of peace by force (through the sword). Jesus was not willing to lower Himself to their terms. This is why the Pharisees hated Him [Jesus]. They were blinded by their manmade rituals and the misbeliefs about the Messiah that, they were blinded to the fact Jesus was the Christ. The Jews were looking for a sign that would convince them of Jesus' office on their terms, not God's terms. This is why Jesus said, "'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead" (Luke 16:31, New International Version, 2011). Notice that Jesus speaks plainly (without parables) to Peter in the Book of Acts, after Jesus had been resurrected.


Grace and Peace!

 

[OwenHeidenreich]

i'm really confused still beacuse he said,

"But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that,
“‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,"

So it seems like he saying "I speak in parables for the purpose of them never being able to percieve the truth"

 

[NiceneCreed]

I think Jesus said that because He knew they wanted to be convinced He was the Christ on their terms, not God's terms. Had Jesus lowered Himself by speaking to them on their terms, wouldn't that cheapen the penalty He paid for our sins up on the cross? I personally think it would have to some degree. Salvation is not achieved by man's terms, but by God's alone. Even so, the parables were sufficient for the Jews to believe Jesus was the Christ. I think that is the point Jesus was trying to make; not their terms, but His.



Grace and Peace!

 

[jerusalem]

there are many things that satan and his demons know about christians without really understanding. i think there parables are a way that Jesus has of keeping them and people who follow them from understanding things in a way that they could hurt believer's in worse ways than they already do. but these are the deep spiritual truths of God, i can imagine,for example, the demons and satan laughing raucously and saying things like can you believe it hahaha what an idiot He thinks thats going to work hahahsa we've got Him now......then bthey are stunned when it doesn't work out the way they thought it would

 

[4enlightment]

Don't get me wrong, this is how i currently interpret mark 4:10-12

10 When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. 11 He told them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables 12 so that,
“‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,
and ever hearing but never understanding;
otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!’[a]”






SO he said, "Everything is in parables so that they may see, but they will not percieve. they may hear my words, but they will not understand because if they understand they might turn and be forgiven!"

???

he does not want them to understand because they "might turn and be forgiven"?

Over time while walking with God, you'll be able to understand Him. But right now we have something in us keeping us from hearing and seeing. Parable are stories that has a hidden message behind them, only if you put all your heart into it, you'll be able to understand them.

Matthew 7:7 “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

 

[enoch1nine]

The parable is a filter for the heart.
The word isn't understood when heard with the wrong heart.
God doesn't want you to just be able to read instructions and follow them.
He wants you to seek answers and grow.
Genesis 3:22 and 11:6 say the same things as the passage posted in post #1

"repent at my reproof, and I will make my words known unto you"
A filter.

If everything could be understood without the proof cycle of "ask, knock, seek" followed by "received, opened, found",
there could be no "sanctification", no receipt of "grace", no "seal on the forehead"

The whole bible is one big parable with consistent allegory from beginning to end.

For example, a ram is the part of you that says "leave me alone!"
Not just some random farm animal raised for burning on a literal altar.
A donkey is the stubborn part of you that won't budge. You don't sacrifice it, you put it to proper work.
And so on and so on.

BibleGateway.com - Keyword Search: parable

 

[crossnote]

i'm really confused still beacuse he said,

"But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that,
“‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,"

So it seems like he saying "I speak in parables for the purpose of them never being able to percieve the truth"

This is referring to those who ''claim'' to see yet they remain blind. It goes hand in hand with...

And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind. And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also? Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.
(Joh 9:39-41) (read the whole chapter for context)

 

[OwenHeidenreich]

If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.
(Joh 9:39-41) (read the whole chapter for context)

Thats good, when i read that quote something big popped into my mind

we live by faith not by SIGHT.


We should not believe everything we see, because the truth is that we should have faith.
and faith is confidence in things unseen.

 

[Reformedjason]

Yes he does prevent understanding for the non elect. In order for the things of God to be understood , it takes the work of the Holy Spirit.

 

[john832]

Don't get me wrong, this is how i currently interpret mark 4:10-12

10 When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. 11 He told them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables 12 so that,
“‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,
and ever hearing but never understanding;
otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!’[a]”




SO he said, "Everything is in parables so that they may see, but they will not percieve. they may hear my words, but they will not understand because if they understand they might turn and be forgiven!"

???

he does not want them to understand because they "might turn and be forgiven"?

God has a plan and the plan. He does not intend to save everyone today and today is not the only day of salvation. That is the FALSE doctrine of the SDAs and there "Great Controversy".

Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
Rom 11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
Rom 11:10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

 

[Widdekind]

seemingly implied is Jesus' teaching, from the "Sermon on the Slope" (Matt 7), about not casting "pearls before swine"

you should not put what is valuable in front of those who will reject the notion that it has value and furthermore that they will seek to diminish or destroy what you offer.

According to Dr. Elaine Pagels, in the NGC documentary Gospel of Judas, Jesus offered private advanced-level teachings, to those students (who acknowledged him as teacher), vs. generalities to the crowds. In doing so, Jesus behaved according to common custom of antiquity, and today; professors offer more, to those who are more devoted.

Further, Jesus was alluding to Isaiah 6, so Jesus was seemingly stating, that "all was proceeding per Prophesied Plan". Prima facie, Isaiah 6 refers to the 70 AD Judgement vs. Judea & Jerusalem:

[SUP]9 [/SUP]And He replied:
Go! Say to these people:
Keep listening, but do not understand;
keep looking, but do not perceive.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Dull the minds[SUP][d][/SUP] of these people;
deafen their ears and blind their eyes;
otherwise they might see with their eyes
and hear with their ears,
understand with their minds,
turn back, and be healed.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]Then I said, “Until when, Lord?” And He replied:
Until cities lie in ruins without inhabitants,
houses are without people,
the land is ruined and desolate,
[SUP]12 [/SUP]and the Lord drives the people far away,
leaving great emptiness in the land.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Though a tenth will remain in the land,
it will be burned again.
Like the terebinth or the oak
that leaves a stump when felled,
the holy seed is the stump.