-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Here's a few.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, 7 for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle--I am speaking the truth in Christ and not lying--a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. (1 John 2:2)
29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! (John 1:29)
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone. (Hebrews 2:9)
42 Then they said to the woman, "Now we believe, not because of what you said, for we ourselves have heard Him and we know that this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world." (John 4:42)
14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. (1 John 4:14)
10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. (1 Timothy 4:10)
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)
17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. (John 3:17)
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world." (John 6:51)
47 And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. (John 12:47)
19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. (2 Corinthians 5:19)
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, 7 for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle--I am speaking the truth in Christ and not lying--a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. (1 John 2:2)
29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! (John 1:29)
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone. (Hebrews 2:9)
42 Then they said to the woman, "Now we believe, not because of what you said, for we ourselves have heard Him and we know that this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world." (John 4:42)
14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. (1 John 4:14)
10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. (1 Timothy 4:10)
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)
17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. (John 3:17)
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world." (John 6:51)
47 And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. (John 12:47)
19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. (2 Corinthians 5:19)
C
In my personal opinion, Romans 5 is probably one of - if not the most - damaging chapters of scripture to Calvinism, namely the Calvinistic idea of Limited Atonement. Basicallly, limited atonement states that Christ only died for those that God selects to be saved or "the elect". However, Romans 5 states that just as sin entered and infected the entire world through one man (Adam), the cross of Christ is actually far greater.
Last edited:
J
Jesus states twice who he dies for. How many more times must it take, before we agree with him?
John 10
11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. 12 But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them. 13 The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.
17 “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”
19 Therefore there was a division again among the Jews because of these sayings. 20 And many of them said, “He has a demon and is mad. Why do you listen to Him?”
21 Others said, “These are not the words of one who has a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?”
John 10
11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. 12 But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them. 13 The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.
17 “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”
19 Therefore there was a division again among the Jews because of these sayings. 20 And many of them said, “He has a demon and is mad. Why do you listen to Him?”
21 Others said, “These are not the words of one who has a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?”
This is a very common, but not overly complicated, logical fallacy often made by Calvinists. It is true that the Bible tells us that Christ died for the elect. And, indeed, he did die for the elect. However, to conclude, from the fact that he died for the elect, that he died only for the elect is, simply put, a leap of logic that we cannot justify (especially since the scriptures also tell us that he is the savior "especially of those who believe" (1 Timothy 4:10)).
So although I would agree that Christ surely did die for the elect, I would challenge any Calvinist to tell me a single scripture, anywhere in the Bible, that tells us a single person for whom Christ did not die.
This is a problem, of course, because the Bible never does tell us of a single person for whom Christ did not die. Indeed, it tells us that he even died for false teachers:
1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. (2 Peter 2:1)
So Christ died even for those who are "made to be caught and destroyed" (2 Peter 2:12).
So although I would agree that Christ surely did die for the elect, I would challenge any Calvinist to tell me a single scripture, anywhere in the Bible, that tells us a single person for whom Christ did not die.
This is a problem, of course, because the Bible never does tell us of a single person for whom Christ did not die. Indeed, it tells us that he even died for false teachers:
1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. (2 Peter 2:1)
So Christ died even for those who are "made to be caught and destroyed" (2 Peter 2:12).
Last edited:
E
I think Paul said it best. He not only made propitiation for our sins (those of the elect in Christ) but the sins of the whole world.
When paul says ours. he is not only talking about him and the people who are gods then, but anyone who would ever read those words who have been born into Gods family. WHich would include us today sitting here reading this text.
He not only died for us, but the whole world.
When paul says ours. he is not only talking about him and the people who are gods then, but anyone who would ever read those words who have been born into Gods family. WHich would include us today sitting here reading this text.
He not only died for us, but the whole world.
It proves that the people of Adam and the people of Christ are not one and the same people.
"IN CHRIST all shall be made alive". Are literally "all" made alive in Christ?
And where does the gospel speak of itself as an offer? (I do not deny that the gospel should be offered indiscriminately to all, but the gospel message is not the message of an "offer"; "you can ... if you just want to"). It is the message about what the person and work of Christ ALONE accomplished to redeem His people.
"IN CHRIST all shall be made alive". Are literally "all" made alive in Christ?
And where does the gospel speak of itself as an offer? (I do not deny that the gospel should be offered indiscriminately to all, but the gospel message is not the message of an "offer"; "you can ... if you just want to"). It is the message about what the person and work of Christ ALONE accomplished to redeem His people.
N
Limited atonement is probably the most damaging false doctrine prevalent in mainstream doctrine. It leaves out mankinds free will, & it would mean God created some ppl just to watch them suffer.
Keep in mind, Paul told Pagans they were closer to God than they thought they were, that they weren't that far from Him.
God was in Christ RECONCILING the WORLD to himself...
Keep in mind, Paul told Pagans they were closer to God than they thought they were, that they weren't that far from Him.
God was in Christ RECONCILING the WORLD to himself...
Mankind has no free will to save itself. It's time you wake up and see it. Eph.2:1-3, 1Cor.2:12-15.
It is only christians who are reconciled. If the Jews' rejection of Christ be the reconciliation of the world, "the world" here must mean the world of believers. It cannot mean that every individual is reconciled to God; otherwise, everyone would be saved, and this simply isn't true. If you say this means that reconciliation is generally applied to the world then you are ignoring what the verse says, that their rejection be the reconciliation of the world.
It is only christians who are reconciled. If the Jews' rejection of Christ be the reconciliation of the world, "the world" here must mean the world of believers. It cannot mean that every individual is reconciled to God; otherwise, everyone would be saved, and this simply isn't true. If you say this means that reconciliation is generally applied to the world then you are ignoring what the verse says, that their rejection be the reconciliation of the world.
E
We have no disagreement here. The disagreement is that Christ did not die for all. when scripture makes it clear he did. My point was your argument holds no water because it does not prove he did not die for all.
Your joking right?
Call out on the name of the lord to be saved. An offer to call out.
That everyone who believes in him will never die. An offer to believe.
We are saved by faith. an offer to have faith.
Behold I stand at the door an knock. An offer to open the door for Christ
The gospel speaks as an offer all over scripture. if it is not an offer. all these passages make no sense and are meaningless
Your joking right?
Call out on the name of the lord to be saved. An offer to call out.
That everyone who believes in him will never die. An offer to believe.
We are saved by faith. an offer to have faith.
Behold I stand at the door an knock. An offer to open the door for Christ
The gospel speaks as an offer all over scripture. if it is not an offer. all these passages make no sense and are meaningless
E
Again you make no sense. God can purchase the freedom of all people. It does not mean when he offers the gift of freedom they will take it. many people do not think they need it, and many people think they have to work for it. These people will not take it. They are not saved because they rejected Gods gift. Not because God did not die for them