Is Paul or Jesus your main guide?
- Thread starter Blik
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Paul teaches the gospel and following the teachings of Christ leads to our salvation. What I would like to have us discuss is the difference in how these truths are presented by the gospels and the letters. For example, can you imagine Paul giving a parable in one of the letters? The sermon on the mount is how Christ teaches, it does not resemble how Paul teaches even though they teach the same truths.
Not always:
2 Corinthians 11:17 That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting.
-Paul was forbidden to preach in Asia:
Acts 16:6 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia,
Acts 21:11 And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.
12 And when we heard these things, both we, and they of that place, besought him not to go up to Jerusalem.
13 Then Paul answered, What mean ye to weep and to break mine heart? for I am ready not to be bound only, but also to die at Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus.
-Paul went anyways, even tho he was forbidden by the Holy Spirit:
Acts 21:27 And when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews which were of Asia, when they saw him in the temple, stirred up all the people, and laid hands on him,
28 Crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place.
-Paul "coincidentally" had approved the stoning of Stephen, the one who rebuked those who resist the Holy Spirit:
Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.
No, only three days:
Acts 9:9 And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.
In the flesh, he was only taught during "certain days" by the disciples:
19And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.
20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.
We don't know how or when Jesus taught Paul, it is not written.
2 Corinthians 11:17 That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting.
-Paul was forbidden to preach in Asia:
Acts 16:6 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia,
Acts 21:11 And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.
12 And when we heard these things, both we, and they of that place, besought him not to go up to Jerusalem.
13 Then Paul answered, What mean ye to weep and to break mine heart? for I am ready not to be bound only, but also to die at Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus.
-Paul went anyways, even tho he was forbidden by the Holy Spirit:
Acts 21:27 And when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews which were of Asia, when they saw him in the temple, stirred up all the people, and laid hands on him,
28 Crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place.
-Paul "coincidentally" had approved the stoning of Stephen, the one who rebuked those who resist the Holy Spirit:
Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.
No, only three days:
Acts 9:9 And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.
In the flesh, he was only taught during "certain days" by the disciples:
19And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.
20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.
We don't know how or when Jesus taught Paul, it is not written.
Paul was an apostle, not a disciple, and it was written. Galatians 1: 15-18 But when he cwho had set me apart dbefore I was born,4 and who ecalled me by his grace, 16 was pleased to reveal his Son to5 me, in order fthat I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with anyone;6 17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me, but I went away into Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.
18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas and remained with him fifteen days.
An apostle is taught directly by Jesus, not by the word in any other way.
18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas and remained with him fifteen days.
An apostle is taught directly by Jesus, not by the word in any other way.
-
1
- Show all
It says he was in Damascus three years, it doesn't say he was taught "directly by Jesus".
Paul claims to have received "revelation". We don't know how exactly, nor when. Was it dreams, visions, signs, wonders? Was it in Damascus, Arabia, Jerusalem? We don't know, it is not written.
What it is written, however, is that it wasn't from flesh and blood:
Galatians 1:11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
So, Paul was taught by "revelation", not by man. Now, is Jesus Christ a "man"? -I confess Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.
1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
Paul claims to have received "revelation". We don't know how exactly, nor when. Was it dreams, visions, signs, wonders? Was it in Damascus, Arabia, Jerusalem? We don't know, it is not written.
What it is written, however, is that it wasn't from flesh and blood:
Galatians 1:11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
So, Paul was taught by "revelation", not by man. Now, is Jesus Christ a "man"? -I confess Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.
1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
-
1
- Show all
2 Corinthians 12
1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
Context of the passage points to the visions and abundant of revelations he has already had and will continue to have throughout his ministry as God chose him to be the Apostle of the Gentile church. I believe that the Lord gave him many of these revelations upon Mt. Sinai in Arabia. The Lord used Moses to reveal the law to his physical people Israel, so too did the Lord reveal to Paul his directions for his NT believers. I believe both were upon Mt. Sinai for forty days. That's my opinion of course.
Yes, it is your opinion, of course. Which proves nothing, with all due respect.
You are yet to respond: Is Jesus Christ a "man"?
Galatians 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
You are yet to respond: Is Jesus Christ a "man"?
Galatians 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
You start of by saying Jesus is a man, and I agree, the point is, if Jesus is a "man", and Paul wasn't taught by "man", who thaught him then?
Does the body of Jesus after His resurrection disqualifies Him from beeing a "man", did He ceased to be a "man"? Do you believe Jesus is still a "man", as of right now? Or is He only God now, because His body is not of flesh and blood?
That is your opinion man, you already admitted to that.
Does the body of Jesus after His resurrection disqualifies Him from beeing a "man", did He ceased to be a "man"? Do you believe Jesus is still a "man", as of right now? Or is He only God now, because His body is not of flesh and blood?
That is your opinion man, you already admitted to that.
Scripture states that he is a man, but not a man like you and I. He has a glorified body of flesh and bone, no blood. Blood is what’s corrupt. Read 1 Corinthians 15.
Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Paul’s doctrine was already in him he received revelation that means something was revealed to him he taught nothing but what he said
“Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: but shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judæa, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: that Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.”
Acts 26:19-20, 22-23 KJV
if a person studies the prophets you will see what he means his doctrine is already hidden in the prophets and law paul and all the apostles received revelation “ apocalypse “ all
Of thoer doctrine came from the law and prophets having the veil removed and receiving understanding of it from Jesus the others received the same here
“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, ( revelation )
and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
Luke 24:44-48 KJV
again this is Paul’s claim
I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: that Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.”
Paul received that same exact revelation to understand that the law and prophets witness of Christ Jesus.
that’s what he preached the same thing Isaiah , zechariah , Ezekiel and Jeremiah , Moses and Joshua all Preached but it was veiled then the apostles preached the same with revelation. He preached understanding of what’s always been witnessed beforehand just like all the apostles Jesus himself had fulfilled and made them his witnesses to both jew and gentile.
as far as pauls conversion and when he began to preach
“And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
“And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. And when he had received meat, he was strengthened.
“And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. And when he had received meat, he was strengthened.
Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus. And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.”
Acts 9:18-20
It took three days for the time he was blinded to the time he was made to see after that he after a few days with the disciples began tomoresch Jesus to them that he is the one from the ot prophecies the messiah what and savior of the world.
Look up what the term revelation means it means they are revealing what’s already there but no one Understood until Jesus have them understanding
they are “uncovering” it. Not them but the spirit Christ promised them in the gospel which he preached. And came when he was seated at Gods right hand
Paul is a servant and witness like tbe other eleven apostles. The gospel they preached are the ones written in Matthew , mark , luke and John it’s the foundation and cornerstone of the law , prophets and epistles they all believed
“Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: but shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judæa, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: that Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.”
Acts 26:19-20, 22-23 KJV
if a person studies the prophets you will see what he means his doctrine is already hidden in the prophets and law paul and all the apostles received revelation “ apocalypse “ all
Of thoer doctrine came from the law and prophets having the veil removed and receiving understanding of it from Jesus the others received the same here
“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, ( revelation )
and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
Luke 24:44-48 KJV
again this is Paul’s claim
I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: that Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.”
Paul received that same exact revelation to understand that the law and prophets witness of Christ Jesus.
that’s what he preached the same thing Isaiah , zechariah , Ezekiel and Jeremiah , Moses and Joshua all Preached but it was veiled then the apostles preached the same with revelation. He preached understanding of what’s always been witnessed beforehand just like all the apostles Jesus himself had fulfilled and made them his witnesses to both jew and gentile.
as far as pauls conversion and when he began to preach
“And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
“And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. And when he had received meat, he was strengthened.
“And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. And when he had received meat, he was strengthened.
Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus. And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.”
Acts 9:18-20
It took three days for the time he was blinded to the time he was made to see after that he after a few days with the disciples began tomoresch Jesus to them that he is the one from the ot prophecies the messiah what and savior of the world.
Look up what the term revelation means it means they are revealing what’s already there but no one Understood until Jesus have them understanding
they are “uncovering” it. Not them but the spirit Christ promised them in the gospel which he preached. And came when he was seated at Gods right hand
Paul is a servant and witness like tbe other eleven apostles. The gospel they preached are the ones written in Matthew , mark , luke and John it’s the foundation and cornerstone of the law , prophets and epistles they all believed