Is Sally Saved?
- Thread starter DiscipleDave
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I refuted your assertion that Jesus was born out of wedlock. Jesus was not even conceived out of wedlock. Read what I said: they were betrothed, but had not yet consummated their wedding vows. Joseph knew he was not the father, yet he was Mary's husband, and thought to divorce her for her assumed unfaithfulness. How do you get "Joseph was the biological father of Jesus" out of any of that?
Yes that seems a logical conclusion, the only issue that i have with a persons name being written in the Book of Life, is Namely that the ONLY way to get to Heaven is through the belief in Jesus Christ. Scriptures are clear there is no other way. Also Scriptures reveals that is is a very specific number that are going to be Saved, none of them will be lost. If then it is a specific number then ALL can't be written in the Book of Life. So i am still leaning towards and personally believe (my opinion) that a persons name is written in the Book of Life the moment they believe in Jesus Christ. Which is the ONLY way to get into Heaven and there is no other way. Jesus is the Way, and ONLY through Jesus does a person get to Heaven.
But as i said before. i don't know. That information was not told me.
i will do research on this topic though. If there is any verse that is contrary to what i believe, then i will change what i believe to match and line up with Scriptures. Scriptures are TRUE, my personal beliefs (opinions) are fallible.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
But as i said before. i don't know. That information was not told me.
i will do research on this topic though. If there is any verse that is contrary to what i believe, then i will change what i believe to match and line up with Scriptures. Scriptures are TRUE, my personal beliefs (opinions) are fallible.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
The Pastor indeed can't tell if someone is TRULY SAVED or not SAVED, by someones words, they could be lying and don't really believe. The correct response from the Pastor would be, when asked if they are SAVED or not is "IF you TRULY believe that Jesus is the Son of God, rose from the dead, and has forgiven your sins, then you are Saved" Which that statement would be TRUE, IF she really did believe those things.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
There are indeed other Books that are opened. The only Book mentioned by name are two of them. The Book of Life, and the Book of Remembrance.
Book of Life, are the names of those who are SAVED
Book of Remembrance is a book of all thoughts and deeds done by a person.
Other Books are unknown to us at this time. Unless God has revealed them whomever God reveals them, and that is not to me.
Dan_7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
Rev_20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
So we are Judged by our Name being written in the Book of Life AND the other books as well.
Mal_3:16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
So then it is possible that Every persons name is written in one of the OTHER Books, maybe all those who are innocent are written in one of those OTHER books. But the Book of Life is for those that are SAVED, and Jesus is the ONLY way, so it seems to me the ONLY way to get your name in the Book of Life is by and through Jesus Christ alone. i don't know. But that is what i believe, until study of Scriptures shows otherwise.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
Book of Life, are the names of those who are SAVED
Book of Remembrance is a book of all thoughts and deeds done by a person.
Other Books are unknown to us at this time. Unless God has revealed them whomever God reveals them, and that is not to me.
Dan_7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
Rev_20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
So we are Judged by our Name being written in the Book of Life AND the other books as well.
Mal_3:16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
So then it is possible that Every persons name is written in one of the OTHER Books, maybe all those who are innocent are written in one of those OTHER books. But the Book of Life is for those that are SAVED, and Jesus is the ONLY way, so it seems to me the ONLY way to get your name in the Book of Life is by and through Jesus Christ alone. i don't know. But that is what i believe, until study of Scriptures shows otherwise.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
Are you suggesting Scriptures are ignorant?
Rom_3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
When Sally accepts Jesus Christ as her Savior and Lord. Jesus forgiven Sally of all her past sins that she has done. He pays the punishment for her past sins, HE went to the cross to be a Sacrifice for her past sins, and when Sally GETS SAVED, all her past sins are forgiven her, because of what Jesus done for her ONCE.
Now if the very next day Sally willingly and knowingly commits a sin. What? Do you think Jesus takes the punishments AGAIN? Do you think Sally puts Jesus back on the cross again? Scriptures plainly teach (Heb 10:26) no more sacrifice for them that choose to sin willingly.
In all of the examples of a sacrifice in the Old Testament. it is always and has always been a sacrifice for PAST sins, Never is there an example of a sacrifice the covers future sins, NOT one example of that. A sacrifice always covers sins that are past, NEVER does a sacrifice cover sins that are yet to happen.
Jesus Sacrificed Himself that we could be forgiven. This happens ONCE, when a person accepts Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord. This is the free gift that is given to anyone who will receive it.
IF then you continue to willingly sin afterwards, Scriptures plainly teach their remaineth no more sacrifice.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Not only this Scriptures teaches that but others as well.
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened,(SAVED) and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away,(Knowingly and willingly live in sin) to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Think about that for a moment. When you got Saved, Jesus goes to the cross for you and dies because of your Past sins. What then? You are going to continue to commit sins and continually put Him back on the cross so that your sins are forgiven? God forbid. Jesus went to the cross for me ONE TIME. When i accepted Him as my Lord and Savior, He took the punishment for my past sins, He went to the cross so that i could be forgiven of those past sins, being a perfect sacrifice for me. He did this ONCE for me, when i got Saved. When i got Saved. all my sins were wiped clean, forgotten, forgiven. i was white as snow because of what Jesus did for me so that i could Get SAVED. He did that for me Once.
After that, when i knowingly and willingly committed a sin, He does not continue to get beaten to pay for those sins. Scriptures teach that i pay for them after i Got SAVED. i reap what i sow, i shall be repaid for the wrong that i do. if i sow to my flesh, i will reap corruption of my flesh. Jesus does not pay the penalty for my sowing to the flesh, i will pay for that. Why? Because Jesus only paid for all those sins that i committed PRIOR to Getting Saved. i pay for them afterwards. This is what Scriptures teach as well.
Seriously if you believe that every time you commit sin, that Jesus is being Sacrificed for you AGAIN, you are putting Him to an open shame. He went to the cross for you ONCE. He took the punishment of your Past sins ONCE.
When a person GETS saved, that is the moment that Jesus pays the punishment for their past sins, that is the moment they crucify Jesus Christ on the cross as a perfect sacrifice. And it is at the very moment when a person is SAVED, that all their past sins are forgiven them, they are clean, they are white, they are pure, they are holy.
Jesus is not crucified daily for you. Jesus was crucified for you ONCE, the day that you GOT SAVED.
Jesus does not take your punishment for sins daily for you. Jesus took the punishment for your past sins the day you GOT SAVED. After that day if you choose to sin, YOU will indeed be punished for it, you will indeed suffer the consequences or your own sinning after that DAY you were completely and utterly forgiven of your past sins. What? Do you think every time you commit sin that Jesus has to be whipped for it? What? Do you think every time you ask for repentance, you sacrifice Christ on the cross AGAIN?
If you are SAVED and you commit the sin of fornication and you Truly Repent, that is to say YOU CEASE from ever doing it again, then Jesus Christ will forgiven you, but you will still pay the consequences of your own sins, HE DOES NOT. Scriptures plainly teach if you sow to the flesh you WILL reap corruption in that flesh, there is no exceptions. So even though you may be forgiven of a sin, you still will suffer the punishment for those sins that you committed. You WILL reap what you sow. Jesus does not reap what you sow.
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened,(SAVED) and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away,(Knowingly and willingly live in sin) to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
i put Jesus on the cross for my Past sins ONCE. He does not continually go to the cross every day for me. Jesus took the punishment for my past sins ONCE. He does not continue to take punishments for the sins that i commit AFTER i got Saved, because i know reap what i myself sows. He will punish me for my sins, Why? because i will reap what i sow as Scriptures plainly teach us will happen.
Rom_3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are PAST, through the forbearance of God;
That is what Scriptures plainly teach. But this generation chooses to be blind and not see what this verse actually says, they would rather falsely see it say something else. Here is what this generation reads when they read Rom 3:25
Rom_3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, present, and future, through the forbearance of God;
Which it does NOT say that.
Who is covered by His blood?
1Jn 1:7 But IF (conditional) we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
When does Jesus cleanse us from all sin, when we are no longer living in it. When we are walking in the light like Jesus walked in the light. Many claim to the Christian yet continue to walk in darkness (living in sin) This verse is for them:
1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
Those who knowingly and willingly choose to obey satans temptations and commit sin, are indeed walking in darkness. That is a FACT. Your master is to whom you freely choose to obey. satan is tempting you to commit sin, Jesus is pleading with you not to. Your master is to whom you freely and willingly choose to obey. Woe to this generation which loves to sin, and are altogether unwilling to cease from them. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth at the 7th Trumpet sounding.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
Rom_3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
When Sally accepts Jesus Christ as her Savior and Lord. Jesus forgiven Sally of all her past sins that she has done. He pays the punishment for her past sins, HE went to the cross to be a Sacrifice for her past sins, and when Sally GETS SAVED, all her past sins are forgiven her, because of what Jesus done for her ONCE.
Now if the very next day Sally willingly and knowingly commits a sin. What? Do you think Jesus takes the punishments AGAIN? Do you think Sally puts Jesus back on the cross again? Scriptures plainly teach (Heb 10:26) no more sacrifice for them that choose to sin willingly.
In all of the examples of a sacrifice in the Old Testament. it is always and has always been a sacrifice for PAST sins, Never is there an example of a sacrifice the covers future sins, NOT one example of that. A sacrifice always covers sins that are past, NEVER does a sacrifice cover sins that are yet to happen.
Jesus Sacrificed Himself that we could be forgiven. This happens ONCE, when a person accepts Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord. This is the free gift that is given to anyone who will receive it.
IF then you continue to willingly sin afterwards, Scriptures plainly teach their remaineth no more sacrifice.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Not only this Scriptures teaches that but others as well.
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened,(SAVED) and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away,(Knowingly and willingly live in sin) to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Think about that for a moment. When you got Saved, Jesus goes to the cross for you and dies because of your Past sins. What then? You are going to continue to commit sins and continually put Him back on the cross so that your sins are forgiven? God forbid. Jesus went to the cross for me ONE TIME. When i accepted Him as my Lord and Savior, He took the punishment for my past sins, He went to the cross so that i could be forgiven of those past sins, being a perfect sacrifice for me. He did this ONCE for me, when i got Saved. When i got Saved. all my sins were wiped clean, forgotten, forgiven. i was white as snow because of what Jesus did for me so that i could Get SAVED. He did that for me Once.
After that, when i knowingly and willingly committed a sin, He does not continue to get beaten to pay for those sins. Scriptures teach that i pay for them after i Got SAVED. i reap what i sow, i shall be repaid for the wrong that i do. if i sow to my flesh, i will reap corruption of my flesh. Jesus does not pay the penalty for my sowing to the flesh, i will pay for that. Why? Because Jesus only paid for all those sins that i committed PRIOR to Getting Saved. i pay for them afterwards. This is what Scriptures teach as well.
Seriously if you believe that every time you commit sin, that Jesus is being Sacrificed for you AGAIN, you are putting Him to an open shame. He went to the cross for you ONCE. He took the punishment of your Past sins ONCE.
When a person GETS saved, that is the moment that Jesus pays the punishment for their past sins, that is the moment they crucify Jesus Christ on the cross as a perfect sacrifice. And it is at the very moment when a person is SAVED, that all their past sins are forgiven them, they are clean, they are white, they are pure, they are holy.
Jesus is not crucified daily for you. Jesus was crucified for you ONCE, the day that you GOT SAVED.
Jesus does not take your punishment for sins daily for you. Jesus took the punishment for your past sins the day you GOT SAVED. After that day if you choose to sin, YOU will indeed be punished for it, you will indeed suffer the consequences or your own sinning after that DAY you were completely and utterly forgiven of your past sins. What? Do you think every time you commit sin that Jesus has to be whipped for it? What? Do you think every time you ask for repentance, you sacrifice Christ on the cross AGAIN?
If you are SAVED and you commit the sin of fornication and you Truly Repent, that is to say YOU CEASE from ever doing it again, then Jesus Christ will forgiven you, but you will still pay the consequences of your own sins, HE DOES NOT. Scriptures plainly teach if you sow to the flesh you WILL reap corruption in that flesh, there is no exceptions. So even though you may be forgiven of a sin, you still will suffer the punishment for those sins that you committed. You WILL reap what you sow. Jesus does not reap what you sow.
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened,(SAVED) and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away,(Knowingly and willingly live in sin) to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
i put Jesus on the cross for my Past sins ONCE. He does not continually go to the cross every day for me. Jesus took the punishment for my past sins ONCE. He does not continue to take punishments for the sins that i commit AFTER i got Saved, because i know reap what i myself sows. He will punish me for my sins, Why? because i will reap what i sow as Scriptures plainly teach us will happen.
Rom_3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are PAST, through the forbearance of God;
That is what Scriptures plainly teach. But this generation chooses to be blind and not see what this verse actually says, they would rather falsely see it say something else. Here is what this generation reads when they read Rom 3:25
Rom_3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, present, and future, through the forbearance of God;
Which it does NOT say that.
Who is covered by His blood?
1Jn 1:7 But IF (conditional) we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
When does Jesus cleanse us from all sin, when we are no longer living in it. When we are walking in the light like Jesus walked in the light. Many claim to the Christian yet continue to walk in darkness (living in sin) This verse is for them:
1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
Those who knowingly and willingly choose to obey satans temptations and commit sin, are indeed walking in darkness. That is a FACT. Your master is to whom you freely choose to obey. satan is tempting you to commit sin, Jesus is pleading with you not to. Your master is to whom you freely and willingly choose to obey. Woe to this generation which loves to sin, and are altogether unwilling to cease from them. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth at the 7th Trumpet sounding.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
OK, so you now make this about OSAS do you?
Say Sally is Truly Saved by Faith, Sally Truly believes with all heart in Jesus Christ. Which you say she is SAVED
So Sally is SAVED. Let us jump into the future 5 years After Sally was raped by a gang.
Sally no longer believes in God, is she still SAVED?
Sally denies Jesus Christ, is she still SAVED?
Sally can't and will never forgive those men, is she still SAVED?
Sally hates those men, is she still SAVED?
Doesn't Scriptures plainly teach if you deny Jesus you are not going to Heaven?
Doesn't Scriptures plainly teach if you can't forgive others neither will you be forgiven?
Doesn't Scriptures plainly teach if you hate others you will not enter into the Kingdom of God?
So which is it. Is Sally still Saved? Oh, wait She wasn't really Saved to begin with right? lol. It is so strange the blind can't see the simplicity is this TRUTH.
From the Time of Sally GETTING Saved, and being raped, she WAS SAVED. If she were to have died, or been killed, or the Rapture happened DURING those 5 years she would have gone to Heaven to be with Jesus forever and ever, because she WAS Saved. But it was only after she was raped that she fell away from God, did not believe in a God any more because of that rape, It was only AFTER 5 years and the rape that Sally denied Jesus Christ to heal her, to help her to love and to forgive, which ONLY He could have done for her. It was only after the rape that she Hated, that she would never forgive.
So here is the TRUTH. For 5 years Sally WAS SAVED. After that incident. her name was blotted out of the Book of Life. OSAS is a false doctrine.
Any SAVED person right now, who takes thought that there is NOTHING that they can do to lose that Salvation, is deceived.
You claim to be SAVED right now. and if you were to die, or the Rapture happens today you would be taken up with Him, correct? Yes that is what those who are SAVED believe. And what of tomorrow? What it is not possible for something to happen to you that would cause you to deny Jesus? That could cause you to Hate someone? That could cause you to not forgive another? Careful how you answer that, God may decide to test you.
Just because you claim to be SAVED today, does not guarantee that you will never deny Jesus, that you will never hate another, that you will always forgive others no matter what they do to you. Just because we are in the race, does not mean you will finish the race.
Yes it is our hope and desire that we will finish the race. It is our hope and prayer that we will never deny Jesus Christ. Yes we think that we will never hate anyone. Yes we think and hope that we will always forgive those who hate us, and do very bad things to us. BUT YOU don't know what the future holds now do you.
Claim to be SAVED today, and you are SAVED today, and if God decides to test you like He did JOB, will you stand strong or will you choose to fall away from God. You don't know, you can hope you will endure, but you don't know that you will finish the race. OSAS is a false assurance that no matter what you do, you can't lose your Salvation. Hogwash. That is a doctrine that makes excuses for sinning. Doesn't matter if you continue to live in sin if your Saved right? Right? lol
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
Say Sally is Truly Saved by Faith, Sally Truly believes with all heart in Jesus Christ. Which you say she is SAVED
So Sally is SAVED. Let us jump into the future 5 years After Sally was raped by a gang.
Sally no longer believes in God, is she still SAVED?
Sally denies Jesus Christ, is she still SAVED?
Sally can't and will never forgive those men, is she still SAVED?
Sally hates those men, is she still SAVED?
Doesn't Scriptures plainly teach if you deny Jesus you are not going to Heaven?
Doesn't Scriptures plainly teach if you can't forgive others neither will you be forgiven?
Doesn't Scriptures plainly teach if you hate others you will not enter into the Kingdom of God?
So which is it. Is Sally still Saved? Oh, wait She wasn't really Saved to begin with right? lol. It is so strange the blind can't see the simplicity is this TRUTH.
From the Time of Sally GETTING Saved, and being raped, she WAS SAVED. If she were to have died, or been killed, or the Rapture happened DURING those 5 years she would have gone to Heaven to be with Jesus forever and ever, because she WAS Saved. But it was only after she was raped that she fell away from God, did not believe in a God any more because of that rape, It was only AFTER 5 years and the rape that Sally denied Jesus Christ to heal her, to help her to love and to forgive, which ONLY He could have done for her. It was only after the rape that she Hated, that she would never forgive.
So here is the TRUTH. For 5 years Sally WAS SAVED. After that incident. her name was blotted out of the Book of Life. OSAS is a false doctrine.
Any SAVED person right now, who takes thought that there is NOTHING that they can do to lose that Salvation, is deceived.
You claim to be SAVED right now. and if you were to die, or the Rapture happens today you would be taken up with Him, correct? Yes that is what those who are SAVED believe. And what of tomorrow? What it is not possible for something to happen to you that would cause you to deny Jesus? That could cause you to Hate someone? That could cause you to not forgive another? Careful how you answer that, God may decide to test you.
Just because you claim to be SAVED today, does not guarantee that you will never deny Jesus, that you will never hate another, that you will always forgive others no matter what they do to you. Just because we are in the race, does not mean you will finish the race.
Yes it is our hope and desire that we will finish the race. It is our hope and prayer that we will never deny Jesus Christ. Yes we think that we will never hate anyone. Yes we think and hope that we will always forgive those who hate us, and do very bad things to us. BUT YOU don't know what the future holds now do you.
Claim to be SAVED today, and you are SAVED today, and if God decides to test you like He did JOB, will you stand strong or will you choose to fall away from God. You don't know, you can hope you will endure, but you don't know that you will finish the race. OSAS is a false assurance that no matter what you do, you can't lose your Salvation. Hogwash. That is a doctrine that makes excuses for sinning. Doesn't matter if you continue to live in sin if your Saved right? Right? lol
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
I was merely refuting your basis premise which asserts that the Holy Ghost was born, or conceived.
Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. Matt 1:18
Do you really understanding the teaching regarding what Jesus taught regarding what the Holy Ghost hath joined together, let not man put asunder?
And David sent messengers to Ish-bosheth Saul's son, saying, Deliver me my wife Michal, which I espoused to me for an hundred foreskins of the Philistines.
2 Sam 3:14
If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
Deut 22:28-29
Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily. Matthew 1:19
If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her, 14 And give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid, (See Deut 22:13-14)
But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. Matt 1:20
For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not." Eccl 7:20
Cell fusion.
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Matt 23:9
It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me. Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also. John 8:17-19
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i have no doctrine of works. But you can't see that i have said many times over, Works do not Save you, but Once you are SAVED you will have plenty of Good Works. This is the doctrine that i have said over and over again, this is what YOU SEE as a skewed false gospel of works, this is all in your own head, and not reality.
i do teach Salvation can be lost. So does Scriptures. If a person can be blotted out of the Book of Life, then i assure you Scriptures are correct a person can be written in the Book of life (SAVED) and then blotted out of it (no longer Saved). This is Scriptures. So maybe you can sleep better at night thinking you are disagreeing with me on "Salvation can be lost" but in Truth it is Scriptures that plainly teach a person can be blotted out of the Book of life.
sins not paid for. i teach that are past sins are paid for, the moment we GET SAVED. This is Scriptural.
As to self proclaimed prophet. i did not make myself one. God said that i was. Maybe you should study the Scriptures to see what it says concerning false prophets, and then determine if i am one using Scriptures. But as it is now, you only determine that i am false, based on YOUR own beliefs and not what Scriptures teach.
In all my posts if you could find just one thing that i said that is contrary to Scriptures, you will have effectively proven to everyone that i am indeed a false prophet. But as of yet, you nor anyone else for that matter has done so. Wonder why?
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
i do teach Salvation can be lost. So does Scriptures. If a person can be blotted out of the Book of Life, then i assure you Scriptures are correct a person can be written in the Book of life (SAVED) and then blotted out of it (no longer Saved). This is Scriptures. So maybe you can sleep better at night thinking you are disagreeing with me on "Salvation can be lost" but in Truth it is Scriptures that plainly teach a person can be blotted out of the Book of life.
sins not paid for. i teach that are past sins are paid for, the moment we GET SAVED. This is Scriptural.
As to self proclaimed prophet. i did not make myself one. God said that i was. Maybe you should study the Scriptures to see what it says concerning false prophets, and then determine if i am one using Scriptures. But as it is now, you only determine that i am false, based on YOUR own beliefs and not what Scriptures teach.
In all my posts if you could find just one thing that i said that is contrary to Scriptures, you will have effectively proven to everyone that i am indeed a false prophet. But as of yet, you nor anyone else for that matter has done so. Wonder why?
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
Amen, the moment they believe this they are SAVED, they start running the race. If they endure to the end they shall be SAVED.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
Mat_24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Tell me, if they do NOT endure unto the end, do YOU still think they are SAVED?
Scriptures plainly teach that if they endure to unto the end, they are then at the end SAVED, but what do YOU say? Do you say if they fail to endure to the end, they are STILL SAVED? how does that not negate the above verse altogether. Or tell me now what does the verse mean, what do they have to endure, and what if they don't. Or don't tell me what it means, because you don't have any clue what it means, because the verses which teach enduring to the end, you do no believe. Seriously just asking.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
In this post, you present to us so much uncertainty. With an almost cynical assumption that with the future testing that we will face that we will fall away.
These testing you speak of, everyone who belongs to God, will face to a degree.
Testing doesn't mean necessarily mean to fall away, actually, God tests us for our benefit, so we improve and learn to think more like Him.
I've certainly failed my fair share of tests, and when I see my failures surrounding me, I see He is still standing there with me.
So Sally was gang raped, and she is finding it tough to get over it. What about the responsibility of those within the faith to help her through? She says she no longer believes in God, fair enough but you don't know what God will do 5 years down the track to bring her back!
Oh, He certainly pursues us with jealousy. I've seen people get hurt by the church, or whatever, practically curse God and God in His insurmountable mercy, goodness and faithfulness restore them back to a right relationship again with even more fire!
These testing you speak of, everyone who belongs to God, will face to a degree.
Testing doesn't mean necessarily mean to fall away, actually, God tests us for our benefit, so we improve and learn to think more like Him.
I've certainly failed my fair share of tests, and when I see my failures surrounding me, I see He is still standing there with me.
So Sally was gang raped, and she is finding it tough to get over it. What about the responsibility of those within the faith to help her through? She says she no longer believes in God, fair enough but you don't know what God will do 5 years down the track to bring her back!
Oh, He certainly pursues us with jealousy. I've seen people get hurt by the church, or whatever, practically curse God and God in His insurmountable mercy, goodness and faithfulness restore them back to a right relationship again with even more fire!
i am referring to those who actually do fall away.
As long as we are alive we will be tested.
Have i said anywhere that by being tested that we will fall away? i have not said that, why does it seem you think i have?
Any time a person Truly repents of their sins, God is Faithful and will forgive that person of those sins, but only if they TRULY repent, which is to say they STOP doing whatever it is they are repenting of. But even though we are forgiven when we Truly repent, we are still going to suffer the consequences for those sins. If we sow to the flesh of the flesh you will reap corruption. Therefore it is at this time of corruption that many of the Christian faith will fall away. Not saying all of them, only saying many of them, because they will not understand why they are suffering so greatly, and it is because of their own sins that they are suffering so greatly. If then Scriptures says you will reap corruption in the flesh if you sow to the flesh, how much will you have sown in the flesh, from the time you got Saved, till the Tribulations Period starts, OH my so MUCH sinning, therefore so MUCH corruption comes with that. This is when most people will fall away when the Tribulation starts, first off, Jesus did NOT COME when they thought He should have (pre-trib) and they are now suffering the corruption in their flesh, this will cause many to fall away. But here is Great news for you the reader. You now have heard the TRUTH, and maybe during that time, you will remember this TRUTH, and not fall away but believe and accept your corruption in the flesh as being a punishment from a God who dearly loves you.
God is alway trying to get people back, does not mean those people will choose to come back now does it? What you say is a good point, just because Sally denied Jesus at that time, does not mean she can't repent of it later. Lets recap:
Sally gets Saved, for five years she IS SAVED.
Sally gets raped by a gang and denies God, Sally is no longer Saved.
Sally after five years of getting Raped repents, and she forgives those men, and asks for forgiveness because she denied Jesus, Sally once again is in Good standing with God, is SAVED.
This is why i have been saying over and over again. Today does not determine if you are Saved or not. There is only one day that will determine if Sally is Saved or not Saved, and that day is when the Book of Life is opened and her name is found written therein. 5 years prior to being Raped, her name was written in the Book of life. 5 years after she was raped her name was blotted out of the Book of Life, because she hated, she denied God, she did not forgive. But after that 5 years, she repented, did not hate, and forgave those men, her name is then written back in the Book of life.
There is ONLY one day that will determine who is Saved and who is not Saved and that day is the day of the Rapture. Just because you were Saved last year, does not mean your name is going to be written in the Book of Life on the day of the Rapture. Just because your name is written in the Book of Life, does not mean is can't possibly be blotted out of it.
True, but if that person were to have died or been killed, or the Rapture happens during that time they were cursing God and denying Him, there name would have been blotted out.
Do you know how many times my name has been blotted out of the Book of Life? Many times. Today it is not blotted out and it is written in there. Can i claim that i am Saved? Sure i can. i am Saved, Can i say tomorrow my name is still written in the Book of Life, i hope it is, but i can always choose to fall away from God.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
As long as we are alive we will be tested.
Have i said anywhere that by being tested that we will fall away? i have not said that, why does it seem you think i have?
Any time a person Truly repents of their sins, God is Faithful and will forgive that person of those sins, but only if they TRULY repent, which is to say they STOP doing whatever it is they are repenting of. But even though we are forgiven when we Truly repent, we are still going to suffer the consequences for those sins. If we sow to the flesh of the flesh you will reap corruption. Therefore it is at this time of corruption that many of the Christian faith will fall away. Not saying all of them, only saying many of them, because they will not understand why they are suffering so greatly, and it is because of their own sins that they are suffering so greatly. If then Scriptures says you will reap corruption in the flesh if you sow to the flesh, how much will you have sown in the flesh, from the time you got Saved, till the Tribulations Period starts, OH my so MUCH sinning, therefore so MUCH corruption comes with that. This is when most people will fall away when the Tribulation starts, first off, Jesus did NOT COME when they thought He should have (pre-trib) and they are now suffering the corruption in their flesh, this will cause many to fall away. But here is Great news for you the reader. You now have heard the TRUTH, and maybe during that time, you will remember this TRUTH, and not fall away but believe and accept your corruption in the flesh as being a punishment from a God who dearly loves you.
God is alway trying to get people back, does not mean those people will choose to come back now does it? What you say is a good point, just because Sally denied Jesus at that time, does not mean she can't repent of it later. Lets recap:
Sally gets Saved, for five years she IS SAVED.
Sally gets raped by a gang and denies God, Sally is no longer Saved.
Sally after five years of getting Raped repents, and she forgives those men, and asks for forgiveness because she denied Jesus, Sally once again is in Good standing with God, is SAVED.
This is why i have been saying over and over again. Today does not determine if you are Saved or not. There is only one day that will determine if Sally is Saved or not Saved, and that day is when the Book of Life is opened and her name is found written therein. 5 years prior to being Raped, her name was written in the Book of life. 5 years after she was raped her name was blotted out of the Book of Life, because she hated, she denied God, she did not forgive. But after that 5 years, she repented, did not hate, and forgave those men, her name is then written back in the Book of life.
There is ONLY one day that will determine who is Saved and who is not Saved and that day is the day of the Rapture. Just because you were Saved last year, does not mean your name is going to be written in the Book of Life on the day of the Rapture. Just because your name is written in the Book of Life, does not mean is can't possibly be blotted out of it.
True, but if that person were to have died or been killed, or the Rapture happens during that time they were cursing God and denying Him, there name would have been blotted out.
Do you know how many times my name has been blotted out of the Book of Life? Many times. Today it is not blotted out and it is written in there. Can i claim that i am Saved? Sure i can. i am Saved, Can i say tomorrow my name is still written in the Book of Life, i hope it is, but i can always choose to fall away from God.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave