Is the Devil bound right now...?

[eternally-gratefull]

That is simply untrue. We do not allegorise or spiritualise Rev 20. We see the reign of Christ with His saints ruling over the world today as literal. We see Satan's restriction/binding as being as literal as it can be given that Satan is a spirit and not physical.

So when in the last 2000 years have the people of the nations who went against Israel come to jerusalem to worship the king.

And when has Jesus punished those who did not with no rain for a year?

 

[valiant]

Yep. and we have seen over the last 2000 years (more so in the last 50 years) how satan is so able to decieve the lost. and so many nations.

So your argument against is actually an argument for.. Thank you.

On this subject you sadly reveal your slipshod mind. If Satan had deceived the nations in this age there would be no church.
He is on the run. The church is expanding rapidly. You people sadly impute more power to Satan than to God.,

 

[valiant]

So when in the last 2000 years have the people of the nations who went against Israel come to jerusalem to worship the king.

And when has Jesus punished those who did not with no rain for a year?

[/SIZE]

They do so every day. As Jesus said 'neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father --- God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth'. And where do they worship Him in Spirit and in truth? In the new Jerusalem, the Jerusalem which is above (Gal 4.26; Heb 12.20-22). There we enter into the Holiest by the blood of Jesus and come into the very presence of God (Heb 10.19 ff), We are risen with Christ and seek those things which are above where Christ is seated at the right hand of God (Col 3.1). We share His throne where He lives and reigns with His saints (Eph 2.5-6). We live in the heavenlies, even whilst our bodies are on earth. We live in the Jerusalem above which is our mother.

Come and join us. Cease to be hidebound by physical ideas.

Jesus constantly brings famine and drought on those who do not fear His Name. Just read the news!!!! Or don't you think He is in control?

 

[DP]

A-millennialism doesn't even have a premillennial or postmillennial interpretation, for they believe that we are currently living in the thousand years, which they don't even believe is literal, but is an unknown about of time and that because they apply the formula of Ps.50:10 as being the same in Rev.20:1-2. They basically allegorize/spiritualize end time events. In regards to the resurrection and catching away, which all true believers are anticipating and watching for, they do not believe that believers, dead and living, are going to be bodily resurrected at the Lord's appearing.

The early Church prior to the 2nd century were pure Millenialists. Amillenialism began in the 2nd century, and I think with the establishing of the western Christian nations many more began accepting that as proof. But look at the western Christian nations today with many having fallen away from Christ, especially among our nation's leadership.

But now I think Amillenialism has become a useful tool for those who seek to deceive us away from Bible prophecy about the end of this world, and instead try to get us to accept their NWO.

 

[valiant]

The early Church prior to the 2nd century were pure Millenialists.

Pity no one told Jesus and Paul and Peter about it. They seem to have missed out. Not a breath about the millennium with any of them.

Amillenialism began in the 2nd century, and I think with the establishing of the western Christian nations many more began accepting that as proof.

Rubbish. Not a single item of proof.

But look at the western Christian nations today with many having fallen away from Christ, especially among our nation's leadership.

yes its happening under your nose in premillennial America

But now I think Amillenialism has become a useful tool for those who seek to deceive us away from Bible prophecy about the end of this world, and instead try to get us to accept their NWO.

LOL LOL LOL you do make me laugh It is premillennialism which is the great deceiver invented in the 19th century by Satan. And what does it do. It makes men concentrate of the physical and miss what is spiritual.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

On this subject you sadly reveal your slipshod mind. If Satan had deceived the nations in this age there would be no church.

lol.. So satan is more powerful than God?

In your slipshot mind Israel should never have been a nation and Christ would never have been born.

He is on the run. The church is expanding rapidly. You people sadly impute more power to Satan than to God.,

Nope. he is no more bound today, then he was in the OT.. He will never have power over the church. So if your reasoning is only this, then satan has been bound since God chose and formed the nation of Israel.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

They do so every day. As Jesus said 'neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father --- God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth'. And where do they worship Him in Spirit and in truth? In the new Jerusalem, the Jerusalem which is above (Gal 4.26; Heb 12.20-22). There we enter into the Holiest by the blood of Jesus and come into the very presence of God (Heb 10.19 ff), We are risen with Christ and seek those things which are above where Christ is seated at the right hand of God (Col 3.1). We share His throne where He lives and reigns with His saints (Eph 2.5-6). We live in the heavenlies, even whilst our bodies are on earth. We live in the Jerusalem above which is our mother.

Come and join us. Cease to be hidebound by physical ideas.

Jesus constantly brings famine and drought on those who do not fear His Name. Just read the news!!!! Or don't you think He is in control?

Umm, I thought you interpreted literally?

those prophesies speak of nations not induviduals. So if your intepreting it literally as you claim. When have these NATIONS come.. and when have these NATIONS been punished?

 

[valiant]

lol.. So satan is more powerful than God?

that's your belief not mine. Satan is under God's present restraint and that is why he is limited in what he can do.

In your slipshot mind Israel should never have been a nation and Christ would never have been born.

you do tend to get childish in your criticisms lol you should go back to infant sunday school.

Nope. he is no more bound today, then he was in the OT.. He will never have power over the church. So if your reasoning is only this, then satan has been bound since God chose and formed the nation of Israel.

well in a sense he was. He could only attack Job with God's permission.

But your folly is revealed in the fact that outside Israel the whole world was in darkness. Why? Because in their case Satan was not bound. With regard to Israel he was restrained. Indeed he is only referred to twice concerning Israel in OT.

you should read the Scriptures and not listen to your church leaders who are deceived. Then you would have more power and enjoy more the presence of God in the Jerusalem which is above.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

that's your belief not mine. Satan is under God's present restraint and that is why he is limited in what he can do.

It has been that way since adam and eve first sinned. (He had to get permission to go after job, or did you forget)

So your point?

you do tend to get childish in your criticisms lol you should go back to infant sunday school.

Your the one who used childish things, I just returned the favor to you

well in a sense he was. He could only attack Job with God's permission.

Ah yes, See, So nothign is different

But your folly is revealed in the fact that outside Israel the whole world was in darkness. Why? Because in their case Satan was not bound. With regard to Israel he was restrained. Indeed he is only referred to twice concerning Israel.

lol.. He was restained ony for isreal? Tell israel that, Every heard of syria, babylon, media persia, and rome??

not to mention, the kings of the east, and ninevah..

you should read the Scriptures and not listen to your church leaders who are deceived. Then you would have more power and enjoy more the presence of God in the Jerusalem which is above.

You should study more. you are learned from your men, not scripture.. I trust no man to tell me what to believe,

 

[valiant]

It has been that way since adam and eve first sinned. (He had to get permission to go after job, or did you forget)

So your point?




Your the one who used childish things, I just returned the favor to you




Ah yes, See, So nothign is different



lol.. He was restained ony for isreal? Tell israel that, Every heard of syria, babylon, media persia, and rome??

not to mention, the kings of the east, and ninevah..



You should study more. you are learned from your men, not scripture.. I trust no man to tell me what to believe,

your problem is that you see Satan in everything. The great empires did not act as they did because of Satan. They did it because of their own greed. But you may note if you read the OT carefully how often Israel were DELIVERED from them.
Anyone who read the OT knows that Satan is hardly involved (although his minions are).

But then you people read into Scripture whatever you want. Why bother with the facts?

 

[DP]

Pity no one told Jesus and Paul and Peter about it. They seem to have missed out. Not a breath about the millennium with any of them.

Then you have not really studied all The New Testament writings, particularly about the subject they both covered about "the day of the Lord". (Also, in 2 Thess.2:1-2, the phrase "day of Christ" in the Greek is actually "day of the Lord", since the actual Greek word there is not 'Christos' but 'kurios' which means 'lord'). See 1 Thess.5 and 2 Pet.3.

And since you apparently don't know what that "day of the Lord" subject is, otherwise you would have recognized it from the Old Testament Books of God's prophets, then that reveals you're probably lacking in Old Testament Book study also.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

your problem is that you see Satan in everything. The great empires did not act as they did because of Satan. They did it because of their own greed. But you may note if you read the OT carefully how often Israel were DELIVERED from them.

hmm. No I see satan for who he is, I see him doing the same today as he did in the time of job, and the time of isreal and the time of the church.

Anyone who read the OT knows that Satan is hardly involved (although his minions are).

So his minions. and who controls them? When satan is bound even his minions will have no leader. thats why they are rendered powerless.

But then you people read into Scripture whatever you want. Why bother with the facts?

Ask yourself that question.

 

[valiant]

Umm, I thought you interpreted literally?

those prophesies speak of nations not induviduals. So if your intepreting it literally as you claim. When have these NATIONS come.. and when have these NATIONS been punished?

if you had the slightest real intelligence you would realise that it would be IMPOSSIBLE for all the nations literally to come up to Jerusalem to worship. Or are you going to make Jerusalem a million times bigger? The mind boggles. thus the more intelligent of your kind talk about 'representatives' (which is not what it says)

Incidentally the new Jerusalem IS a million times bigger.

but you should also note that nations are made up of people. Thus when people from the nations approach God they are covered by the word nations. Simple really But possibly a little taxing for your mind.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

if you had the slightest real intelligence you would realise that it would be IMPOSSIBLE for all the nations literally to come up to Jerusalem to worship. Or are you going to make Jerusalem a million times bigger? The mind boggles. thus the more intelligent of your kind talk about 'representatives' (which is not what it says)

lol.. 2000 years ago. your right. Today, it can happen. and your making assumptions that it will not even be easier when it actually happens. I mean, according to jesus the world and all life in it would be destroyed if he did not return, that was not possible back then, but is today.

Your problem is you are blinded by your belief system, and not looking forward. and giving God the power to do what he says he will do and make happen what he said will happen.

See, I do not have to explain how or why, I just have to have faith God said it will happen, it will..

Abraham lived in a day no one had ever risen from the dead, But he trusted God that God would keep his promise.

I have the faith of abraham, why don't you?

Incidentally the new Jerusalem IS a million times bigger.

Yes your right, But the OT prophesies of the king and jerusalem is not the new one, it is the one that is hear on this earth..

but you should also note that nations are made up of people. Thus when people from the nations approach God they are covered by the word nations. Simple really But possibly a little taxing for your mind.

Nope. thats symbolising or spiritualizing

God said nations, Not people. Nice try.

 

[valiant]

hmm. No I see satan for who he is, I see him doing the same today as he did in the time of job, and the time of isreal and the time of the church.

That figures. You mean you are spiritually blind? Sad

So his minions. and who controls them? When satan is bound even his minions will have no leader. thats why they are rendered powerless.

Jesus said Satan was bound (Matt 12.28-29). you say he isn't. Now who should I believe?

Have you noticed that Satan is not mentioned as active in Rev 13-19? I don't suppose you have. But his minions are able to carry on.

God's restriction on Satan does not necessarily prevent Satan communicating with his minions. That is why he can indirectly act through them.

Ask yourself that question.

I have and I recognise that you ignore what Scripture actually says and manipulate it to say what you want it to say. I was similarly deceived long, long ago so I know precisely how you have to wriggle and misuse the languages in order to justify your position. But once I had jettisoned Scofield the Holy Spirit through Scripture itself gradually brought me to the truth.

 

[Ahwatukee]

That is simply untrue. We do not allegorise or spiritualise Rev 20. We see the reign of Christ with His saints ruling over the world today as literal. We see Satan's restriction/binding as being as literal as it can be given that Satan is a spirit and not physical.

Hello Valiant,

"seeing the reign of Christ with His saints ruling over the world today as literal" in this case is misinterpretation and that because the chronological order of scripture makes it clear that the thousand years begins after Jesus physically and visually returns to the earth to end the age, where the beast and the false prophet are thrown into the lake of fire and Satan is cast into the Abyss. Yet, these things have not yet taken place.

You interpret Jesus as currently ruling from heaven through the saints, but scripture states that he himself will be here ruling on earth with a rod of iron from the throne of David from Jerusalem. Even if you want to claim that he is currently ruling through the saints, that is also is not happening. I don't see the saints ruling with a rod of iron over the people of the earth nor do I see any of the other characteristics of the millennial period currently existing.

Regarding Satan's binding, you don't believe in a literal thousand years, but interpret it as an unknown amount of time even though it says "a thousand years" six times. It also states that his binding will be in the Abyss, but your binding has him out and about in some passive binding, where Scripture has him bound in the Abyss which is under the earth. Just because Satan and his angels are spirit, that doesn't mean that God could not have some type of spiritual barrier below the surface of the earth which they cannot cross. Obviously there is some type of barrier and that because that angel, the beast, who is currently in the Abyss has not yet been able to come out of there, but will do so only at the sounding of the fifth trumpet when the Abyss is unlocked. So something is keeping him from leaving the Abyss.

you must meet some strange people. Of course amillennialists believe in the resurrection of the dead and the rapture of the living saints at the coming of Christ.

Then you are a different kind of Amillennialis, because most of them believe that when the body dies, it returns to dust and stays that way never to rise again.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That figures. You mean you are spiritually blind? Sad

Thats your argument? Sad

Jesus said Satan was bound (Matt 12.28-29). you say he isn't. Now who should I believe?

Jesus does not say he is bound in math 28 so he can not decieve nations.. Now your being wishy washy to support your own faulty belief.

Again, WHen has satan ever stopped Gods kingdom from going on?? He has NEVER Had the power to do this.

Have you noticed that Satan is not mentioned as active in Rev 13-19? I don't suppose you have. But his minions are able to carry on.

An army without a leader is dead. I supposed you have not studied much about military have you?

He is not bound until Jesus returns, He does not return until after 19.. soo.. your point is mute.

God's restriction on Satan does not necessarily prevent Satan communicating with his minions. That is why he can indirectly act through them.

Then he is not bound for he can still deceive nations, through his minions who he controls.

You do not understand what unable to deceive means do you??

I have and I recognise that you ignore what Scripture actually says and manipulate it to say what you want it to say. I was similarly deceived long, long ago so I know precisely how you have to wriggle and misuse the languages in order to justify your position. But once I had jettisoned Scofield the Holy Spirit through Scripture itself gradually brought me to the truth.

Your deceived now.

You state he is bound when he is not..

thats deception.

 

[valiant]

lol.. 2000 years ago. your right. Today, it can happen. and your making assumptions that it will not even be easier when it actually happens.

Now I know that you are lacking in the upper section. There is no way that Jerusalem on earth could be made large enough to cater for the peoples of the whole world. If it was it would no longer be Jerusalem.

I mean, according to jesus the world and all life in it would be destroyed if he did not return, that was not possible back then, but is today.

LOL reading into Scripture again? It is true that after Jesus second coming there will be no life on earth. All will either have been raptured or judged and executed.

Your problem is you are blinded by your belief system, and not looking forward. and giving God the power to do what he says he will do and make happen what he said will happen.

But GOD doesn't say it. It is in your dreams.

See, I do not have to explain how or why, I just have to have faith God said it will happen, it will..

But you are supposed to get it right first LOL

Abraham lived in a day no one had ever risen from the dead, But he trusted God that God would keep his promise.

But God did not raise anyone from the dead in Abraham's day. Wake up.

I have the faith of abraham, why don't you?

You mean you believe what is not going to happen? At last you admit it LOL

I prefer to believe what IS going to happen and have faith in that.

Yes your right, But the OT prophesies of the king and jerusalem is not the new one, it is the one that is hear on this earth..

Proof? And don't just cite Scriptures with Jerusalem in them. You have to PROVE which Jerusalem it means. Read Isaiah.

Nope. thats symbolising or spiritualizing

No I know you are a sad case, See how you wriggle? How can saying that peoples make up nations be spiritualising? No wonder you are mixed up.

God said nations, Not people. Nice try.

So nations are not people? What are they then? Ah yes as Solomon said they can be ants.

 

[Bowman]

lol.. Well if yuo do not know scripture. Then I certainly do not need to listen to you.

Revelation 12:10 [Full Chapter]
Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.


Oh and just in case you say that was past.. You can do the work of looking it up to get context..

And....you want it to mean what, exactly...?

 

[Bowman]

I agree with Bouman on his initial statement of the OP, even though he has an incorrect understanding of it, but he is also correct on the writing of Revelation. It is all based on numbers and seven is a very common number which means complete. Revelation is divided into seven parts, each part repeats. Here are those divisions.
1. Rev 1-3
2. Rev 4-7
3. Rev 8-11
4. Rev 12-14
5. Rev 15-16
6. Rev 17-19
7. Rev 20-22

All sections repeat the history of the church from the first advent of Christ to His second coming. Thus most of it is past history with the second coming, judgment and new heaven/new earth in the future. It depicts a war that is occurring between Christ and Satan and secondarily with Christ's Church. A war that has been in existance since Satan fell from Heaven.

The first three deal with the real, live, on earth church and Christians in their struggle against powers and principalities, Satan. All speak of promise, hope and admonition. Basically, stay the course, overcome, Christ will triumph.

The next two are a transition between the real world, reality and the spiritual and mystical struggle of the church against Satan. The message is the same, promise and admonition.

The last two are totally spiritual, or mystical and deals with the underlying real struggle going on between Christ and Satan.

Thus Revelation gives us an ever deepening understanding of what is happening in the world and an ever spiraling revelation of the destiny of man from God's perspective and revealed to John by visions.

Thanks brother....we can agree on some things...