Is the Devil bound right now...?

[Cassian]

And yet you did not reveal the Scriptures, nor what Jesus said that contradicts what i have said above. If you claim that what i said above disagrees with Scriptures and with Jesus, then reveal the Scriptures and reveal what Jesus said that contradicts. If you can't do that, then what i said is what you disagree with, and NOT what the Scriptures disagree with.

^i^ responding to post # 1080

I have presented scriptures at least five or six times already in this thread. I'm not going to post them over and over. The point is no a single person has refuted them as yet. If you need them just back track to my previous posts.

There is nothing in scripture that supports any variation of premillennialism, dispensationalism, or an earthly reign of Christ.

 

[DiscipleDave]

DiscipleDave said > You do not know me at all, i have made it well known throughout ChristianChat, that what i teach is from God, what He has told me. i have had many conversations with God. i have seen visions, and have had dreams of the future, i have seen the anti-christ on TV saying, "Where is your God now?" which causes millions to fall away from the faith, i have seen the mark of the Beast, and how it comes about, i have seen the one world govenment. i have spoken with two Angels of God. i clearly give credit to whom it belongs, what i teach is NOT from men, nor from my own intellect. What i teach is from God and what He has told me. If then you do not believe that which i teach, then you do not disagree with me, but with Him who told me these things. If then you disagree with anything that i teach, then show one verse in Scriptures which is contrary to what i teach. Don't care for your opinions, or what you believe is the Truth, show me Scriptures that contradict ANYTHING that i teach, which i claim is from God, i know to whom speaks with me, And He is God. So i do not hold on to man-made doctrine, i teach against man-made doctrines. God told me one time in conversation, "If what you believe contradicts even one verse in Scriptures then what you believe is WRONG"

so now you make the same claim. You claim that your opinion/interpretation is of God and other mens's opinion is nothing.

Apparently you not understanding what i have said above. i have made it clear it is NOT my opinion/interpretation, yet you just now are saying it is still my opinion/interpretation. If God spoke to you and said "Tomorrow the Golden Gate Bridge will collapse" And you went and warned people saying "The Golden Gate Bridge is going to collapse tomorrow" Tell me, is that your opinion/interpretation? Is it your opinion that the Golden Gate Bridge will collapse tomorrow, or are you merely repeating what God told you?

What i teach is what God has told me, it has nothing to do with what i believe, What i teach did not come from my own mind, but came from God Himself. If then i merely repeat what He has told me, how is that my opinion? How is that my interpretation? God tells you that tomorrow the Golden Gate Bridge will collapse, that is not your opinion, that is not your interpretation, that is what God plainly told you. Are you still lacking understanding of this, or do i need to explain to you farther this concept? (please note, that was not said in a mean way, but was said in genuinely wanting to know if you need for me to explain more about what God told me, is not my opinion or interpretation.

so now you make the same claim. You claim that your opinion/interpretation is of God and other mens's opinion is nothing.

ALL men's opinions are NOTHING, mine included, as i have said before to others in other threads. What i teach is NOT my opinion, it is what God told me, and it is TRUE.

^i^ responding to post # 1080

 

[DiscipleDave]

DiscipleDave said > So if you accuse me of believing man-made doctrine, then show what i have said that contradicts one verse in all of Scriptures.

You already have done so, even in this response. see the very first paragraph.

Are you not understanding what is being asked? let me be more specific.

So if you accuse me of believing man-made doctrine, then show what i have said that contradicts one verse in all of Scriptures. Please show the VERSE in Scriptures that contradicts what i have said. What you are doing is called redirection. You are unwilling or unable to show the verse which contradicts ANYTHING that i have said, and therefore give an answer that redirects, such as you gave here. Answer the question. if you claim that i teach a man-made doctrine, then show ANY Scriptures that contradicts what i teach, One verse would be sufficient. Or will you use Redirection again?

^i6 responding to post 1080

 

[popeye]

Since you are only giving a summary view of man's Pre-trib Rapture theory, I will give mine about Christ's coming and our gathering to Him, but according to Scripture.

The signs which Jesus was giving His saints with Him upon the Mount of Olives in Matt.24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 are... the seven signs He gave in His Revelation through Apostle John to the seven Churches in Asia. They specifically match the Seals Jesus gave in Revelation 6, the last sign in that chapter being about His coming and reign.

The very last, and final sign Jesus gave in His Olivet Discourse was that of His 2nd coming to gather all of His Church, both from Heaven and from the earth (Matt.24:29-31; Mark 13:24-27).

Per Paul in 1 Thess.4, we know Jesus will bring the 'asleep' saints with Him when He returns, and at the same timing will gather the alive saints still on earth. No mention of angels He sends to do that gathering is in that 1 Thess.4 chapter, but... there are angels that do that gathering as mentioned in the Matt.13 parable of the "tares". In that parable He said the angels are the reapers at harvest time, and those angels also gather the good wheat to His barn. The good wheat ("good seed") in that parable He said are "the children of the kingdom" (Matt.13:38). Are you a child of Christ's future manifested Kingdom? If you are a believer on Christ Jesus as God's Promised Savior, regardless of your nationality, then yes, you are a child of His future Kingdom, for that is especially... about His Church made up of believers from all nations.

And recall what our Lord Jesus said to those of Israel that rejected Him:

Matt 8:11-12
11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
KJV


Even in the parable of the wicked husbandmen of the vineyard, Jesus showed the relationship of His Church with His future Kingdom:

Matt 21:40-43
40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
41 They say unto him, "He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons."
42 Jesus saith unto them, "Did ye never read in the scriptures, 'The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?'
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."
KJV

Jesus is represented by that "lord" of the vineyard there. The unbelieving Jews that rejected Him as Messiah are those "wicked men" in that parable. Believing Israelites and Gentiles joined together represent that "nation" that kingdom will be given to, and that definitely is about Christ's Church. That also reveals another idea the Pre-trib Rapture theorists came up with as false, i.e., their false idea that His Church has no part in the Kingdom promised to Israel. Ephesians 2 by Apostle Paul also disproves John Darby's Dispensationalist theories on that point.



Moreover, in Matt.25, our Lord Jesus showed that when He and all His angels come, He will send His angels to separate His sheep from ALL NATIONS and the sheep will inherit the Kingdom prepared for them since the foundation of the world. That is NOT specific to just the seed of Israel, but specific to ALL NATIONS of believers on Christ Jesus which make up His many-member Body, His Church. And when is any Gentile believer on Christ Jesus NOT one of His "sheep" per God's Word???

What Apostle Paul said about those who are to inherit that Kingdom from the foundation of the world; notice Paul was not speaking to Israel only, but to all believers on Christ Jesus, of both believing Israel and believing Gentiles:

Eph 1:4-5
4 According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
KJV


As a matter of fact, there is so much written in the NT Epistles about believers on Christ from all nations (His Church) inheriting that Kingdom, (even with Abraham), that it would make up another small book.

Since you are only giving a summary view of man's Pre-trib Rapture theory, I will give mine about Christ's coming and our gathering to Him, but according to Scripture.

lol,.....and leave out the heart of heaven,THE BRIDE / GROOM DIMENSION.AND FAIL TO FACTOR IN THE VERSES WE USE TO PRESENT THE PRETRIB VIEW.

You are way out in left field by default.

Way off.

For you guys to "win" you absolutely must take verses off the table.

 

[DiscipleDave]

DiscipleDave said > my advice is but dung, But what God told me is TRUTH. If i say a verse means this or a verse means that, it is not because i have interpreted those verses to mean this or that, as if interpretations belong to men, i KNOW what those verses mean, because i asked God when He would talk with me, and He told me what they mean. And do you want to know what He told me several times when i asked what does a particular verse mean, He would say "What does it say?" i would read the verse, then He would say "That is what it means" If you desire advice from me, it would be this. Believe the Word of God and what it plainly says, and do not Believe a word than men teach you.

If it is dung, then don't give any.

You are not hearing what i have been saying, have you? Are you lacking faith that you can't believe God speaks to people any more? Where is it written that God STOPS speaking with people? i have plainly told you, it is not from me, but from God, for some reason in your own thinking, God does not speak to people. What is that to me, if you lack Faith that He does?

You should study scripture more, it might help you.

This actually made me chuckle, you do not know me at all. i have studied the Bible extensively, read it cover to cover over 80 times in my life, studied Hebrew and Greek, college to be an ordained minister, lived in a Monastery and studied the Word of God, listen to the Bible every work day for eight hours a day, and YOU tell me that i should study the Scriptures more. lol, you don't know me at all.

The Holy Spirit does not give new revelation to individual men.

Now this is an opinion. Show me Any Scriptures which teach what you just said? This is a false teaching that teaches that. Where in Scriptures does it teach that the Spirit of Truth is bound to only reveal Truths that are already written? Where? This is what you believe, and it does not line up with Scriptures. Was it not written that certain things were not to be written but only revealed in the last days, but according to your logic, if the Holy Ghost does not give new revelations to individual men, how then is that which was sealed going to be revealed. You do error not knowing or understanding the Scriptures.

He gave His Revelation ONCE, via the Apostles 2000 years ago. Since then He has guarded and protected that revelation which He entrusted to His Church. It has not changed since that time, even in spite of many men trying to impose their innovative ideas upon it, including you.

They are not my ideals, they come from God. But you have altogether bypassed the trying of the Spirits, haven't you?

^i^ responding to post # 1080

 

[Cassian]

Are you not understanding what is being asked? let me be more specific.

So if you accuse me of believing man-made doctrine, then show what i have said that contradicts one verse in all of Scriptures. Please show the VERSE in Scriptures that contradicts what i have said. What you are doing is called redirection. You are unwilling or unable to show the verse which contradicts ANYTHING that i have said, and therefore give an answer that redirects, such as you gave here. Answer the question. if you claim that i teach a man-made doctrine, then show ANY Scriptures that contradicts what i teach, One verse would be sufficient. Or will you use Redirection again?

^i6 responding to post 1080

A very common claim of many other men over time. Yet in every case what they supposedly got from God turned out to be false. I know it is false because God does not give direct revelation to individuals for private interpretation. Your lack of understanding scripture is obvious.

The Holy Spirit gave man ALL of His revelation via the Apostles for this Messianic Age. There is nothing about premillennialism, dispensationalism, or an earthly reign that was given to the Apostles in the beginning. There is nothing in the history of historical Christianity that the Church has ever believed in these teachings.
It is one of the functions of the Holy Spirit to guide and guard Christ's Body and to preserve the revelation entrusted to it until Christ comes again.

On the other hand history also shows that the modern versions began with Miller, Darby and Scofield and became popularized only recently. They are all man made versions and they are still in flux, probably never to actually have any kind of unity. Hardly the unity of the Gospel from the beginning, preserved by the Holy Spirit. Your opinion/interpretation is just one of those many that exists today.

Another issue is that within the sola scriptura milieu most interpreters do not accept the theories either. So, for those who use the same inquiry method there is no unity either. Hardly Gospel Truth, the same from the beginning.

 

[Cassian]

You are not hearing what i have been saying, have you? Are you lacking faith that you can't believe God speaks to people any more? Where is it written that God STOPS speaking with people? i have plainly told you, it is not from me, but from God, for some reason in your own thinking, God does not speak to people. What is that to me, if you lack Faith that He does?

This actually made me chuckle, you do not know me at all. i have studied the Bible extensively, read it cover to cover over 80 times in my life, studied Hebrew and Greek, college to be an ordained minister, lived in a Monastery and studied the Word of God, listen to the Bible every work day for eight hours a day, and YOU tell me that i should study the Scriptures more. lol, you don't know me at all.

Now this is an opinion. Show me Any Scriptures which teach what you just said? This is a false teaching that teaches that. Where in Scriptures does it teach that the Spirit of Truth is bound to only reveal Truths that are already written? Where? This is what you believe, and it does not line up with Scriptures. Was it not written that certain things were not to be written but only revealed in the last days, but according to your logic, if the Holy Ghost does not give new revelations to individual men, how then is that which was sealed going to be revealed. You do error not knowing or understanding the Scriptures.



They are not my ideals, they come from God. But you have altogether bypassed the trying of the Spirits, haven't you?

You have an entirely different understanding regarding scripture. Scripture was not given in isolation or a vacuum, nor was it even given in written form. There is no logical reason that the Holy Spirit is going to give either more revelation based on scripture, nor interpretations in this modern age different than He originally give in the beginning.

The Holy Spirit works to lead men to the ONE Truth He gave a very long time ago, ONCE.

As I stated before, many men make your claim, but they always end up being false teachers. The real test of false teachers/spirits is has it always been believed from the beginning. Is it something the Holy Spirit gave and has preserved from the beginning. Not from some man who claims God spoke to him and gave him new or more revelation. I can give you names of some of those men who make the same claim as you.

 

[popeye]

A very common claim of many other men over time. Yet in every case what they supposedly got from God turned out to be false. I know it is false because God does not give direct revelation to individuals for private interpretation. Your lack of understanding scripture is obvious.

The Holy Spirit gave man ALL of His revelation via the Apostles for this Messianic Age. There is nothing about premillennialism, dispensationalism, or an earthly reign that was given to the Apostles in the beginning. There is nothing in the history of historical Christianity that the Church has ever believed in these teachings.
It is one of the functions of the Holy Spirit to guide and guard Christ's Body and to preserve the revelation entrusted to it until Christ comes again.

On the other hand history also shows that the modern versions began with Miller, Darby and Scofield and became popularized only recently. They are all man made versions and they are still in flux, probably never to actually have any kind of unity. Hardly the unity of the Gospel from the beginning, preserved by the Holy Spirit. Your opinion/interpretation is just one of those many that exists today.

Another issue is that within the sola scriptura milieu most interpreters do not accept the theories either. So, for those who use the same inquiry method there is no unity either. Hardly Gospel Truth, the same from the beginning.

Justin Martyr in the 2nd century was one of the first Christian writers to clearly describe himself as continuing in the “Jewish” belief of a temporary messianic kingdom prior to the eternal state. According to Johannes Quasten, “In his eschatological ideas Justin shares the views of the Chiliasts concerning the millennium.”[SUP][15][/SUP] He maintains a premillennial distinctive, namely that there would be two resurrections, one of believers before Jesus' reign and then a general resurrection afterwards. Justin wrote in chapter 80 of his work Dialogue with Trypho, “I and others who are right-minded Christians on all points are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built... For Isaiah spoke in that manner concerning this period of a thousand years.” Though he conceded earlier in the same chapter that his view was not universal by saying that he “and many who belong to the pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise.” [SUP][16][/SUP][SUP][17]

[/SUP]Irenaeus and Justin represent two of the most outspoken premillennialists of the pre-Nicean church. Other early premillennialists included Pseudo-Barnabas,[SUP][20][/SUP] Papias,[SUP][21][/SUP] Methodius, Lactantius,[SUP][22][/SUP] Commodianus[SUP][23][/SUP] Theophilus, Tertullian,[SUP][24][/SUP] Melito,[SUP][25][/SUP] Hippolytus of Rome, Victorinus of Pettau [SUP][26][/SUP][SUP][27][/SUP] and various Gnostics groups and the Montanists. Many of these theologians and others in the early church expressed their belief in premillennialism through their acceptance of the sexta-septamillennial tradition. This belief claims that human history will continue for 6,000 years and then will enjoy Sabbath for 1,000 years (the millennial kingdom), thus all of human history will have a total of 7,000 years prior to the new creation.


source ; wiki

 

[DiscipleDave]

DiscipleDave said > False teaching is revealed by if what is being taught contradicts Scriptures.

precisely which is why your explanation is false because it is not found in scripture but imposed by modern man. This has been shown many times already in this thread. But if you still think that you have visions that premillennialism and an earthly reign of Christ is actually what scripture teaches and has always been believed, then cite the evidence.

So what it ends up being is all bluster and no evidence, just man's opinion and many variations of it as well. Hardly Gospel Truth from the beginning.

unlike what you believe to be True, what i teach is backed up by Scriptures, and since you have asked me to reveal them to you, i will, The question is going to be though, will you believe the Scriptures and change what you believe, or will you continue to keep your belief, even though it contradicts Scriptures?

... .. . ... .... .. .. . .. .... an earthly reign of Christ is actually what scripture teaches

The first Scripture that comes to mind right off the bat is this one:

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Rev_20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Rev_11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Has at ANY time in the past has ALL THE KINGDOMS of this world belong to Jesus Christ. Has at ANY time in the past Jesus was KING over ALL NATIONS in the entire Word? The answer is NO, this is yet to be fulfilled, and the Major Prophets will shed light on this as well, proof that Jesus Christ reigns ON EARTH over ALL kingdoms of the Earth. Stay tuned.

Rev_20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Notice, Scriptures do not teach that we (Saints) shall reign with Him FOREVER, but is a very specific time frame that we reign with Him.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: (Fulfilled) and the government shall be upon his shoulder: (Not yet fulfilled) and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. (Not fulfilled)
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, (Not Fulfilled yet) upon the throne of David, (Not fulfilled, Jesus does not yet sit on the Throne of David) and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. (Not Fulfilled) The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this. (He has not yet performed this)

People (humans) will serve, worship, and obey Jesus during His reign on Earth:

Dan 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
Dan 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

All people, nations, have not served Jesus Christ, YET, but they will when He returns.

Psa 72:17 His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations (human nations) shall call Him (Jesus) blessed.

All Nations shall call Jesus Blessed. This has not yet happened., But will.

Mic 4:1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, (ON EARTH) and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
Mic 4:2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Mic 4:3 And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. (This is when He is called the Prince of Peace)

Dan 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, (of the world) and it shall stand for ever.

Again yet more prophesies about God setting up a Kingdom on EARTH, that all other kingdoms will worship and serve.

When Jesus does first set up His Kingdom on Earth, the nations rise up against Him in the first, and He utterly destroys all them who comes against Him. Read the entire Chapter of Zec 14. Jesus sets up His Kingdom over Jerusalem, the Holy City of God sits down upon a split mountain.

Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

When Jesus reigns on the Earth, after He destroys all people who came against the Holy City of the Lord, He will cause all people in the World to come to the Holy City, and those who do not come, their land will get no rain, because Jesus controls the weather on the planet, during His reign.

Psa 72:2 He shall judge thy people with righteousness, and thy poor with judgment. (Remember Jesus when He came in the flesh said He did not come to judge at that time, so this is yet to come)
Psa 72:3 The mountains shall bring peace to the people, and the little hills, by righteousness. (The Mountains which the Lord set up His kingdom on Earth, read above)
Psa 72:4 He shall judge the poor of the people, he shall save the children of the needy, and shall break in pieces the oppressor. (Jesus while in the flesh, did not do these things, but He will when He reigns on Earth as King of all Nations of the World)
Psa 72:5 They shall fear thee as long as the sun and moon endure, throughout all generations.
Psa 72:6 He shall come down like rain upon the mown grass: as showers that water the earth.
Psa 72:7 In his days shall the righteous flourish; and abundance of peace so long as the moon endureth.
Psa 72:8 He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth. (This has not yet been fulfilled, Jesus does not have dominion, YET.)
Psa 72:9 They that dwell in the wilderness shall bow before him; and his enemies shall lick the dust. (Not been fulfilled yet)
Psa 72:10 The kings of Tarshish and of the isles shall bring presents: the kings of Sheba and Seba shall offer gifts.
Psa 72:11 Yea, ALL KINGS shall fall down before Him: ALL NATIONS shall serve Him. (This has not ever been fulfilled. ALL KINGS have NOT fell down before Jesus, ALL Nations HAVE NOT served Jesus, but they will, when He comes the second time.

Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Has the Lord been KING over all the Earth at any time in the past? The answer is NO, but He will be when He returns to reign on the Earth with His Saints, over the people of the Earth.

Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, (Saints reign with Jesus) whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him. (not yet fulfilled)

Isa 60:11 Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that men may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought.
Isa 60:12 For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted. (Not yet fulfilled, but will be, Nations that do not serve Jesus when He comes, will be utterly destroyed)

All of Isa chapter 60 is a description of the reign of Christ on Earth, out of the New City Jerusalem.

Isaiah Chapter two talks about God's Government out from the Holy City Jerusalem.

Eze 48:35 It was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name of the city from that day shall be, The LORD is there. (reference to the New City Jerusalem)

Heb 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Heb 13:14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

This city, the New City Jerusalem, comes down out of Heaven, with Jesus. When Jesus returns, He will be coming with the City that He has prepared for the Saints, When He comes, He will rapture the Church and we will meet Him in the air, and then after that we will go to live in the Holy City in one of the thousands of mansions there, and we will forever be with Him, and we, the Saints, will rule over the Earth with Jesus, out of the New City Jerusalem.

There are many, many more verses that i could list, but time has caught up with me. The Question is will you not change your belief to match with Scriptures, or will you now have a need to try to make void, or interpret away, all these Scriptures which teach that Jesus reigns on the Earth, and all kings, and nations serve and worship Him. How will you explain all those verses away, so you can continue to hold on to what YOU THINK is the Truth?

Jesus is coming to the Earth, and Jesus and the Saints will rule all the inhabitants of the Earth during that time. This is not my opinion, this is not my interpretations, this is what God specifically told me in a conversation. So you can go ahead and kid your own self, by thinking you disagree with me and what i personally believe, but it is not i that you disagree with, but with God who told me these things. And these things are NOT contrary to Scriptures, but are contrary to what YOU THINK is the Truth, is that not right?

i have told you the Truth, i have revealed to you what God has told me, what you do with it, is on your hands, my hands are clean, because i have not failed to tell you the Truth concerning this matter. Believe the Scriptures, NOT what men teach. i wish that would sink into the minds of this generation.

^i^ responding to post # 1080

 

[DiscipleDave]

i am sorry that i could not get to others after post #1080, who have addressed me in some way.

^i^ Love you all, pray for the Truth, but leave your own thinking out of it. Pray for divine Truth, not truths that come from the minds of men.

 

[Cassian]

Justin Martyr in the 2nd century was one of the first Christian writers to clearly describe himself as continuing in the “Jewish” belief of a temporary messianic kingdom prior to the eternal state. According to Johannes Quasten, “In his eschatological ideas Justin shares the views of the Chiliasts concerning the millennium.”[SUP][15][/SUP] He maintains a premillennial distinctive, namely that there would be two resurrections, one of believers before Jesus' reign and then a general resurrection afterwards. Justin wrote in chapter 80 of his work Dialogue with Trypho, “I and others who are right-minded Christians on all points are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built... For Isaiah spoke in that manner concerning this period of a thousand years.” Though he conceded earlier in the same chapter that his view was not universal by saying that he “and many who belong to the pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise.” [SUP][16][/SUP][SUP][17]

[/SUP]Irenaeus and Justin represent two of the most outspoken premillennialists of the pre-Nicean church. Other early premillennialists included Pseudo-Barnabas,[SUP][20][/SUP]Papias,[SUP][21][/SUP]Methodius, Lactantius,[SUP][22][/SUP]Commodianus[SUP][23][/SUP]Theophilus, Tertullian,[SUP][24][/SUP]Melito,[SUP][25][/SUP]Hippolytus of Rome, Victorinus of Pettau[SUP][26][/SUP][SUP][27][/SUP] and various Gnostics groups and the Montanists. Many of these theologians and others in the early church expressed their belief in premillennialism through their acceptance of the sexta-septamillennial tradition. This belief claims that human history will continue for 6,000 years and then will enjoy Sabbath for 1,000 years (the millennial kingdom), thus all of human history will have a total of 7,000 years prior to the new creation.


source ; wiki

Several points should be made. First Papias was the first and we know also that he got his views from Cerinthes a Gnostic. A few others also wrote of it as your post indicates, however these are just men with their own interpretations. The Church itself never held to any of these views. I might also add that the millennial or Chilism view as it was known then is not even remotely like any modern teaching today.
The last point is the Church declared this view, Chilism, a heresy at the Second Ecumenical Council.

 

[Cassian]

unlike what you believe to be True, what i teach is backed up by Scriptures, and since you have asked me to reveal them to you, i will, The question is going to be though, will you believe the Scriptures and change what you believe, or will you continue to keep your belief, even though it contradicts Scriptures?



The first Scripture that comes to mind right off the bat is this one:

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Rev_20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Rev_11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Has at ANY time in the past has ALL THE KINGDOMS of this world belong to Jesus Christ. Has at ANY time in the past Jesus was KING over ALL NATIONS in the entire Word? The answer is NO, this is yet to be fulfilled, and the Major Prophets will shed light on this as well, proof that Jesus Christ reigns ON EARTH over ALL kingdoms of the Earth. Stay tuned.

Rev_20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Notice, Scriptures do not teach that we (Saints) shall reign with Him FOREVER, but is a very specific time frame that we reign with Him.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: (Fulfilled) and the government shall be upon his shoulder: (Not yet fulfilled) and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. (Not fulfilled)
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, (Not Fulfilled yet) upon the throne of David, (Not fulfilled, Jesus does not yet sit on the Throne of David) and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. (Not Fulfilled) The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this. (He has not yet performed this)

People (humans) will serve, worship, and obey Jesus during His reign on Earth:

Dan 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
Dan 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

All people, nations, have not served Jesus Christ, YET, but they will when He returns.

Psa 72:17 His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations (human nations) shall call Him (Jesus) blessed.

All Nations shall call Jesus Blessed. This has not yet happened., But will.

Mic 4:1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, (ON EARTH) and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
Mic 4:2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Mic 4:3 And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. (This is when He is called the Prince of Peace)

Dan 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, (of the world) and it shall stand for ever.

Again yet more prophesies about God setting up a Kingdom on EARTH, that all other kingdoms will worship and serve.

When Jesus does first set up His Kingdom on Earth, the nations rise up against Him in the first, and He utterly destroys all them who comes against Him. Read the entire Chapter of Zec 14. Jesus sets up His Kingdom over Jerusalem, the Holy City of God sits down upon a split mountain.

Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

When Jesus reigns on the Earth, after He destroys all people who came against the Holy City of the Lord, He will cause all people in the World to come to the Holy City, and those who do not come, their land will get no rain, because Jesus controls the weather on the planet, during His reign.

Psa 72:2 He shall judge thy people with righteousness, and thy poor with judgment. (Remember Jesus when He came in the flesh said He did not come to judge at that time, so this is yet to come)
Psa 72:3 The mountains shall bring peace to the people, and the little hills, by righteousness. (The Mountains which the Lord set up His kingdom on Earth, read above)
Psa 72:4 He shall judge the poor of the people, he shall save the children of the needy, and shall break in pieces the oppressor. (Jesus while in the flesh, did not do these things, but He will when He reigns on Earth as King of all Nations of the World)
Psa 72:5 They shall fear thee as long as the sun and moon endure, throughout all generations.
Psa 72:6 He shall come down like rain upon the mown grass: as showers that water the earth.
Psa 72:7 In his days shall the righteous flourish; and abundance of peace so long as the moon endureth.
Psa 72:8 He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth. (This has not yet been fulfilled, Jesus does not have dominion, YET.)
Psa 72:9 They that dwell in the wilderness shall bow before him; and his enemies shall lick the dust. (Not been fulfilled yet)
Psa 72:10 The kings of Tarshish and of the isles shall bring presents: the kings of Sheba and Seba shall offer gifts.
Psa 72:11 Yea, ALL KINGS shall fall down before Him: ALL NATIONS shall serve Him. (This has not ever been fulfilled. ALL KINGS have NOT fell down before Jesus, ALL Nations HAVE NOT served Jesus, but they will, when He comes the second time.

Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Has the Lord been KING over all the Earth at any time in the past? The answer is NO, but He will be when He returns to reign on the Earth with His Saints, over the people of the Earth.

Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, (Saints reign with Jesus) whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him. (not yet fulfilled)

Isa 60:11 Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that men may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought.
Isa 60:12 For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted. (Not yet fulfilled, but will be, Nations that do not serve Jesus when He comes, will be utterly destroyed)

All of Isa chapter 60 is a description of the reign of Christ on Earth, out of the New City Jerusalem.

Isaiah Chapter two talks about God's Government out from the Holy City Jerusalem.

Eze 48:35 It was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name of the city from that day shall be, The LORD is there. (reference to the New City Jerusalem)

Heb 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Heb 13:14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

This city, the New City Jerusalem, comes down out of Heaven, with Jesus. When Jesus returns, He will be coming with the City that He has prepared for the Saints, When He comes, He will rapture the Church and we will meet Him in the air, and then after that we will go to live in the Holy City in one of the thousands of mansions there, and we will forever be with Him, and we, the Saints, will rule over the Earth with Jesus, out of the New City Jerusalem.

There are many, many more verses that i could list, but time has caught up with me. The Question is will you not change your belief to match with Scriptures, or will you now have a need to try to make void, or interpret away, all these Scriptures which teach that Jesus reigns on the Earth, and all kings, and nations serve and worship Him. How will you explain all those verses away, so you can continue to hold on to what YOU THINK is the Truth?

Jesus is coming to the Earth, and Jesus and the Saints will rule all the inhabitants of the Earth during that time. This is not my opinion, this is not my interpretations, this is what God specifically told me in a conversation. So you can go ahead and kid your own self, by thinking you disagree with me and what i personally believe, but it is not i that you disagree with, but with God who told me these things. And these things are NOT contrary to Scriptures, but are contrary to what YOU THINK is the Truth, is that not right?

i have told you the Truth, i have revealed to you what God has told me, what you do with it, is on your hands, my hands are clean, because i have not failed to tell you the Truth concerning this matter. Believe the Scriptures, NOT what men teach. i wish that would sink into the minds of this generation.

^i^ responding to post # 1080

You cite scripture and give your interpretation, but where is the facts. You have several others on this post who are disagreeing with you and with others of the whole theory. The fact is that none of this theory can be found in scripture as scripture was given in the beginning and preserved the same since. Where is this view ever taught and believed by the Church from the beginning until now. In the previous post by Popeye he stated several early Fathers wrote about Chilism, thousand. See my reply to him in post 1111.
I could ask for facts but I know none exist. Their view of Chilism, which was meshed from the Gnostics, did not have what the view today has incorporated all into one theory, namely premillennialism, Darby's Dispensationalism, and an earthly reign of Christ is some future time.

The view just cannot be backed up by scripture without denying, changing, ignoring a lot of what scripture actually does teach. All my previous post have outlined the differences.

Your post above is just a litney of all the arguments, misunderstanding of scripture, that man has made to create an support the modern version of premillennialism.

 

[valiant]

unlike what you believe to be True, what i teach is backed up by Scriptures,

LOL let him who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.

and since you have asked me to reveal them to you, i will,

So kind.

The question is going to be though, will you believe the Scriptures and change what you believe, or will you continue to keep your belief, even though it contradicts Scriptures?

Or possibly shall we see through what you claim to be what Scripture says and realise that it is NOT?

The first Scripture that comes to mind right off the bat is this one:

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

So true. And we ARE kings and priests and we ARE reigning on earth as Rev says. See 2 Cor 5.17; Eph 2.5-6; 1 Peter 2. So Scripture shows this to refer to the present.

Rev_20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

I see no mention of earth. That is purely your assumption. The point that is being made is that they live and reign with Christ just as we living saints do (Eph 2.5-6).

NIL points up to now.

Rev_11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

yes and this is speaking of the end of time when the eternal kingdom commences. From this point on God rules over all.

Has at ANY time in the past has ALL THE KINGDOMS of this world belong to Jesus Christ.

Well actually yes. He rules over ALL He even selects their rulers (Romans 13.1-6)

Has at ANY time in the past Jesus was KING over ALL NATIONS in the entire Word?

Of course He rules over all nations. He has been appointed LORD and Messiah (God and Christ) - Acts 2.36. And He is ruling on the throne of David (Acts 2.30)

The answer is NO, this is yet to be fulfilled,

well your Jesus may not reign over all things, but mine certainly DOES. The answer is YES YES YES. He IS King of Kings and Lord of Lords. He is the Ruler of the kings of the earth (Rev 1.5)

and the Major Prophets will shed light on this as well, proof that Jesus Christ reigns ON EARTH over ALL kingdoms of the Earth.

Along with John we can agree that He is NOW the ruler of the kings of the earth. (Rev 1.5)

stay tuned.

Rev_20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

yes and they and WE have taken part in that FIRST resurrection (Eph 2.5-6; Col 3.1-3). And what was the first resurrection? It was the resurrection of Christ in which we have taken part (Rom 6.2-11). I count myself as risen with HIM. Do you?

Notice, Scriptures do not teach that we (Saints) shall reign with Him FOREVER, but is a very specific time frame that we reign with Him.

Not specific, general. As with most large round numbers '1000' simply indicates a large undetermined number. We are reigning with Christ NOW in the heavenly places during that '1000 years'.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: (Fulfilled) and the government shall be upon his shoulder: (Not yet fulfilled)

Pardon me but it is fulfilled. The government is upon His shoulder. He rules over the kings of the earth (Rev 1.5). He is LORD and Christ NOW (Acts 2.36). He selects who will rule each nation (Rom 13.1-6)

and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. (Not fulfilled)

well the Jesus Christ I worship IS NOW called Wonderful Counsellor. Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. I'm sorry about you. You are missing so much. IT IS FULFILLED.

Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, (Not Fulfilled yet) upon the throne of David, (Not fulfilled, Jesus does not yet sit on the Throne of David) and upon his kingdom,

But Scripture makes clear that He is NOW reigning on the throne of David from Heaven (Acts 2.30, ff) where He was anointed as MESSIAH (coming Davidic king) - Acts 2.36. You really should read the Scriptures.

to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever.

(Not Fulfilled) The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this. (He has not yet performed this)

It is in process of fulfilment and will be finally fulfilled when the everlasting kingdom is established. No intermediate kingdom needed.

People (humans) will serve, worship, and obey Jesus during His reign on Earth:

As I have demonstrated this is wholly untrue unless you mean His reign over the earth NOW. Scripture NOWHERE says that He will reign ON earth.

Dan 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
Dan 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

And when did this happen? AT THE RESURRECTION. The King took His throne, is now bringing the rebels under control, will destroy all who refuse to respond, and will thus issue in the everlasting kingdom.

All people, nations, have not served Jesus Christ, YET, but they will when He returns.

If they are not serving Him when He visits the earth they will be destroyed.

Psa 72:17 His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations (human nations) shall call Him (Jesus) blessed.

A picture of Heaven and the new spiritual earth. Praise God.

All Nations shall call Jesus Blessed. This has not yet happened., But will.

Tell me one nation is which Jesus is not called Blessed. And those individuals who do not will be destroyed when Christ returns.

Mic 4:1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, (ON EARTH) and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
Mic 4:2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

Fulfilled at the first coming of Christ when Jerusalem was made the heavenly Jerusalem (Gal 4.20 ff; Heb 12.20-22)

Mic 4:3 And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

(This is when He is called the Prince of Peace)

This is in process of fulfilment and will finally be fulfilled in the everlasting kingdom.

More to follow. Listen and learn Disciple Dave. It is so sad how you are so busy looking at a fictitious future that you cannot see what Christ the Lord of all is doing NOW.

 

[popeye]

Originally Posted by popeye

Justin Martyr in the 2nd century was one of the first Christian writers to clearly describe himself as continuing in the “Jewish” belief of a temporary messianic kingdom prior to the eternal state. According to Johannes Quasten, “In his eschatological ideas Justin shares the views of the Chiliasts concerning the millennium.”[SUP][15][/SUP] He maintains a premillennial distinctive, namely that there would be two resurrections, one of believers before Jesus' reign and then a general resurrection afterwards. Justin wrote in chapter 80 of his work Dialogue with Trypho, “I and others who are right-minded Christians on all points are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built... For Isaiah spoke in that manner concerning this period of a thousand years.” Though he conceded earlier in the same chapter that his view was not universal by saying that he “and many who belong to the pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise.” [SUP][16][/SUP][SUP][17]

[/SUP]Irenaeus and Justin represent two of the most outspoken premillennialists of the pre-Nicean church. Other early premillennialists included Pseudo-Barnabas,[SUP][20][/SUP]Papias,[SUP][21][/SUP]Methodius, Lactantius,[SUP][22][/SUP]Commodianus[SUP][23][/SUP]Theophilus, Tertullian,[SUP][24][/SUP]Melito,[SUP][25][/SUP]Hippolytus of Rome, Victorinus of Pettau[SUP][26][/SUP][SUP][27][/SUP]and various Gnostics groups and the Montanists. Many of these theologians and others in the early church expressed their belief in premillennialism through their acceptance of the sexta-septamillennial tradition. This belief claims that human history will continue for 6,000 years and then will enjoy Sabbath for 1,000 years (the millennial kingdom), thus all of human history will have a total of 7,000 years prior to the new creation.


source ; wiki

Several points should be made. First Papias was the first and we know also that he got his views from Cerinthes a Gnostic. A few others also wrote of it as your post indicates, however these are just men with their own interpretations. The Church itself never held to any of these views. I might also add that the millennial or Chilism view as it was known then is not even remotely like any modern teaching today.
The last point is the Church declared this view, Chilism, a heresy at the Second Ecumenical Council.

Several points should be made.

yes ,SEVERAL INDEED;

1)YOU ARE WRONG

2) YOU CAN'T ADMIT IT

3)YOU CAN'T EXPLAIN IT AWAY IN YOUR NORMAL GENERALIZING OF MISINFORMATION.

 

[DP]

I've got to agree that Satan was not 'bound' at Christ's death and resurrection.

DiscipleDave is correct that the Biblical idea of Satan being 'bound' has a specific meaning, and time. It only applies to the future time of Christ's "thousand years" reign on earth which begins at Jesus' 2nd coming. The beginning verse of Rev.20 shows us that is when Satan is bound in chains in his pit prison for that thousand years, and is not able to go out and deceive the nations in that time.

Only after the thousand years, when Satan is loosed one final time, will he be able to go deceive the nations, as per Rev.20:7-8.

 

[valiant]

I've got to agree that Satan was not 'bound' at Christ's death and resurrection.

So have I. On the authority of Jesus he was bound during Jesus' ministry (Matt 12.28-29). Are we really going to tell Jesus He was wrong? It was his chief followers who were bound at the resurrection (Col 2.15).

DiscipleDave is correct that the Biblical idea of Satan being 'bound' has a specific meaning, and time.

Yes it meant that his activities were restricted, his minions became subject to the authority of the Apostles, and that he was prevented from keeping all nations in darkness by deceiving them. When did this happen?. Let's ask Jesus. It happened when He began His ministry (Matt 12.28-29).

It only applies to the future time of Christ's "thousand years" reign on earth which begins at Jesus' 2nd coming.

There is no future time of 1000 years. we are in that period NOW. As Rev 9.11 makes clear, the king of the angels was in the Abyss well before the second coming.

The beginning verse of Rev.20 shows us that is when Satan is bound in chains in his pit prison for that thousand years, and is not able to go out and deceive the nations in that time.

No it describes what has already been spoken of in ch 9, the release of Satan leading up to the second coming..

Only after the thousand years, when Satan is loosed one final time, will he be able to go deceive the nations, as per Rev.20:7-8.

Not after the 1000 years but once 'he who restrains' restrains no more' (2 Thess 2), describing the release of Satan and his minions from the Abyss by the restraining angel.

 

[Bowman]

NOTE that SATAN is NOT PHYSICALLY BOUND YET, but HE WILL BE.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 (NRSV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]As to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we beg you, brothers and sisters,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as though from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord is already here.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come unless the rebellion comes first and the lawless one is revealed, the one destined for destruction.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, declaring himself to be God. {HE IS DEFINITELY NOT PHYSICALLY BOUND YET, ONLY BEING RESTRAINED BY THE PRESENCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT ON EARTH.}
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Do you not remember that I told you these things when I was still with you?
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Andyou know what is now restraining him, so that he may be revealed when his time comes.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but only until the one who now restrains it is removed.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will destroy with the breath of his mouth, annihilating him by the manifestation of his coming.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] The coming of the lawless one is apparent in the working of Satan, who uses all power, signs, lying wonders,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] and every kind of wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion, leading them to believe what is false,
[SUP]12 [/SUP] so that all who have not believed the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness will be condemned.

I mean really....

Could you have selected a passage which more completely and utterly destroys what you just said?!

2 Thes 2 states very plainly that Satan is BOUND!!!

And this proclamation was made >2K years ago.

Thus, your 1K literal reading is obviously incorrect.

Satan was bound at The Cross.



Think, McFly, think......

 

[Bowman]

THERE IS WHEN IT IS THE HOLY SPIRIT THAT CONFIRMS THE UNDERSTANDING.

You try to interpret the Bible with what lies between your ears.

I earnestly strive to understand with the HELP of the HOLY SPIRIT.

Last I heard, HE is better at it than you are.

I let scripture interpret itself.

 

[Bowman]

Brother, i have one person on my ignore list, and that is Bowman.

^i^ responding to post # 988

How many times have I heard that before....?

 

[DP]

So have I. On the authority of Jesus he was bound during Jesus' ministry (Matt 12.28-29). Are we really going to tell Jesus He was wrong? It was his chief followers who were bound at the resurrection (Col 2.15).

Col 2:15
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
KJV

Nothing there that says Satan was 'bound' at that time. Our Lord Jesus' triumph on His cross was about fulfilling the prophecy long ago of defeating the devil by His crucifixion and resurrection. It did not stop Satan and his host from tempting us and accusing us, for that will continue all the way until Jesus' 2nd coming when Satan is literally bound in his prison. Because Satan's has already been judged and sentenced does not mean the execution of that sentence has been already carried out.

Yes it meant that his activities were restricted, his minions became subject to the authority of the Apostles, and that he was prevented from keeping all nations in darkness by deceiving them. When did this happen?. Let's ask Jesus. It happened when He began His ministry (Matt 12.28-29).

Jesus gave us power over all the enemy like He said. But that means only if... we stand in Christ and claim that power over the devil and his. We are still subject to Satan's tempting if we allow it. And many brethren weak in the Faith consistently allow it.

As for nations in darkness, that is still going on today, especially with nations that do not have Christ Jesus. So I don't know how you could be duped into believing that isn't still going on today.

Moreover, during the thousand years per Rev.20, with Satan 'bound' and not able to deceive the nations, that event is paralleled in the OT prophets of the time when all will know The LORD, none having to ask their neighbor if they know God; and that coupled with a great time of teaching the differences between the clean and unclean, the holy and the profane; and also when all nations will be required to come up to Jerusalem to worship The King (Jesus Christ). Does anyone honestly see that happening today?

There is no future time of 1000 years. we are in that period NOW. As Rev 9.11 makes clear, the king of the angels was in the Abyss well before the second coming.

That may be what you've been taught from men's doctrines, but it is not aligned with the Scriptures. Rev.9:11 about that "king" is indeed about Satan, but that verse does not show the time when he is 'bound' for the thousand years. Rev.20:1-2 does. That Rev.11:9 verse is about showing who those locusts have over them. The descriptor "angel of the bottomless pit" is about the realm which Satan has rule over, and not about being 'bound' in that pit yet.

No it describes what has already been spoken of in ch 9, the release of Satan leading up to the second coming..

The events of Rev.19 with Christ's coming to destroy the "beast" and "false prophet" with casting them into the "lake of fire" reveals the end of Satan's reign for the tribulation timing. Then in the very next chapter of Rev.20:1-3 we are shown Satan 'bound' for a thousand years. That event flow from Rev.19 through Rev.20 is chronological.

Not after the 1000 years but once 'he who restrains' restrains no more' (2 Thess 2), describing the release of Satan and his minions from the Abyss by the restraining angel.

Rev.20 reveals Satan is bound at the start of the "thousand years" mentioned there, and only loosed for a short time after that "thousand years" is over. Those events are chronological, and they occur after Jesus 2nd coming, not before.

The event in 2 Thess.2 of the one holds until it's time for his revealing is about the events to occur at the end this present world prior to Jesus' 2nd coming, i.e, the timing of "great tribulation" Jesus taught.

That one doing the holding Daniel 10 points to the Archangel Michael. Per Rev.12:7 forward, that war in Heaven between Michael and his angels vs. Satan and his angels is that timing of Dan.12 when Michael stands up (i.e., makes a stand). Then Satan and his angels are cast down to this earth (in our presence) to begin the great tribulation timing which is to occur prior to Jesus' 2nd coming. That "thousand years" of Rev.20 requires Jesus' 2nd coming to have taken place, and it has not yet.