-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I also believe that when the Lord commences to reign on the earth at the conclusion of the beasts term, the Lord will do so spiritually along with his saints spiritually who have been killed and beheaded, and also along with his remnant still living in their flesh saints who have not been killed during the great tribulation and the reign of the beast.
Scripture teaches that at the revealing/appearance/presence of Jesus Christ is when the (Fire) takes place, and Matthew 24:29-30 below teaches that this appearance/revealing takes place (Immediately After The Tribulation)(They Shall See The Son Of Man Coming)
I will highlight in red below the Lords Appearance/Revealing/ Presence, making it very easy for you to understand.
There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation.
This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ!
(Behold, I Make All Things New)
2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.
Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.
Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.
Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.
Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
I will highlight in red below the Lords Appearance/Revealing/ Presence, making it very easy for you to understand.
There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation.
This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ!
(Behold, I Make All Things New)
2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.
Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.
Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.
Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.
Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
I agree we are at the time of the end, the next event I believe will be Daniel's 70 literal weeks to start
When the command goes out to build the wall and street in Jerusalem,the 70 weeks start,7 weeks of planning, 62 weeks of building, the 70th week the Antichrist is revealed,the 3.5 year tribulation starts.
When the command goes out to build the wall and street in Jerusalem,the 70 weeks start,7 weeks of planning, 62 weeks of building, the 70th week the Antichrist is revealed,the 3.5 year tribulation starts.
There are three areas in the Word where the description of being "caught up" to heaven appears. The first is in 2 Corinthians 12:2-4 where Paul describes a man who had been caught up to heaven and paradise, who later back on the earth relates his experience to Paul.
The second area is in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 where the remnant saints who are alive are caught up to meet the Lord in the clouds along with the martyred saints who will have preceded being caught up first.
The third area is in Revelation 12:5 in which the travailing woman delivers a man child who is caught up to Gods throne in heaven, but is then later seen with the devil making war against the caught up remnant offspring on the earth in Revelation 12:17.
With the first and third examples where those who had earlier been caught up to God in heaven still on the earth; being caught up to God is then recognized as a spiritual experience, and not one in which people are whisked away off the planet.
The remnant saints who shall be caught up to God following their previously martyred brethren shall likewise experience a catching up to the Lord spiritually, while still remaining physically on the earth, until it is their time to physically die.
The second area is in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 where the remnant saints who are alive are caught up to meet the Lord in the clouds along with the martyred saints who will have preceded being caught up first.
The third area is in Revelation 12:5 in which the travailing woman delivers a man child who is caught up to Gods throne in heaven, but is then later seen with the devil making war against the caught up remnant offspring on the earth in Revelation 12:17.
With the first and third examples where those who had earlier been caught up to God in heaven still on the earth; being caught up to God is then recognized as a spiritual experience, and not one in which people are whisked away off the planet.
The remnant saints who shall be caught up to God following their previously martyred brethren shall likewise experience a catching up to the Lord spiritually, while still remaining physically on the earth, until it is their time to physically die.
Here I do see things different than you. The first 69 weeks lead up to the Lord and his crucifixion, which is then separated by two millennia from the last week in which the abomination of desolation appears and forms a covenant with many for this final 70th week. As the first 69 weeks include the return of the Jews from Babylon to the rebuilding of Jerusalem's streets, up until the Lord is crucified which took place over 483 years, each day of the 69 weeks is then recognized as a year and not as literal days. Likewise the last week in which the abomination of desolation forms a covenant with many for a week is seven years, and not a literal seven day period.
What are you talking about 7 weeks of planning 62 weeks of building????
The command of Artaxerxes Longimanus to the Messiah of the King (the date of the triumphal entry) is 69 weeks of years or 173,880 days.
The 70th week of years (seven years 2520 days) occurs when Jesus receives the seven sealed scroll in heaven, an event that occurs directly after the rapture of the Church. The Church is not appointed to wrath.....the wrath of unbridled fury of judgement and WAR of God upon the unbelieving world. The day or the hour of the receiving of the scroll and the Rapture is absolutely unknown to everyone except the Father.
Dude this is elementary. EVERYBODY knows this.
The command of Artaxerxes Longimanus to the Messiah of the King (the date of the triumphal entry) is 69 weeks of years or 173,880 days.
The 70th week of years (seven years 2520 days) occurs when Jesus receives the seven sealed scroll in heaven, an event that occurs directly after the rapture of the Church. The Church is not appointed to wrath.....the wrath of unbridled fury of judgement and WAR of God upon the unbelieving world. The day or the hour of the receiving of the scroll and the Rapture is absolutely unknown to everyone except the Father.
Dude this is elementary. EVERYBODY knows this.
Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained?
Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.
If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written
(Four hundred and ninety years), simple
Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.
Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;
Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.
Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weekswere fulfilled.
Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal future weeks or 490 days.
When the call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period.
62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the Antichrist who stops the building.
The 70th literal week will see the antichrist revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.
The 3.5 year tribulation has started.
Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.
If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written
(Four hundred and ninety years), simple
Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.
Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;
Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.
Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weekswere fulfilled.
Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal future weeks or 490 days.
When the call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period.
62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the Antichrist who stops the building.
The 70th literal week will see the antichrist revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.
The 3.5 year tribulation has started.
Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Isa 26
Your dead will live; their bodies will rise. Awake and sing, you who dwell in the dust! For your dew is like the dew of the morning, and the earth will bring forth her dead. Go, my people, enter your rooms and shut your doors behind you. Hide yourselves a little while until the wrath has passed. For behold, the LORD is coming out of His dwelling to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity. The earth will reveal her bloodshed and will no longer conceal her slain.…
Your dead will live; their bodies will rise. Awake and sing, you who dwell in the dust! For your dew is like the dew of the morning, and the earth will bring forth her dead. Go, my people, enter your rooms and shut your doors behind you. Hide yourselves a little while until the wrath has passed. For behold, the LORD is coming out of His dwelling to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity. The earth will reveal her bloodshed and will no longer conceal her slain.…
Except the text does not state that the dead in Christ are "caught up FIRST" (and there, "we which are ALIVE and remain" MEET THEM [where they've preceded, "in the clouds"], no).
Instead, the text states that we are "caught up TOGETHER" with them (the verb-action "caught up" being what the word "together" corresponds to). This means, "caught up" AT THE SAME TIME that they are.
Instead, the text states that we are "caught up TOGETHER" with them (the verb-action "caught up" being what the word "together" corresponds to). This means, "caught up" AT THE SAME TIME that they are.
-
1
- Show all
The abomination of desolation many understand to be in reference to the beast and its mouth, the false prophet. It is during the beast and false prophets seven year covenant with many, in which they will install a new world world order over which they will reign for 42 months (1/2 of the seven year period). Prior to the 42 month reign there will be tribulation during the first half of the covenant with many, which will then be followed by additional tribulation for the faithful during the final half of the week in which the beast and false prophets 42 month reign.
Heaven will then come here on the earth when the Lord commences to reign following the last indignation when Satan, the beast, and the false prophets 42 month reign concludes. The beast and the false prophet will then be cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 19:20), while Satan will be cast into the bottomless pit for a thousand years (Revelation 20:3), while heaven (Christs kingdom) comes on the earth.
Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Do you notice how nearly everyone here has differing opinions on what different aspects of the Word represent? This is because we are all currently deceived by the devil (Revelation 12:9) who masquerading as an angel of true illumination (2 Corinthians 11:14), in fact provides us all with his deceptions. This deception from the devil will soon, however, come to an end upon him being cast out into the earth, whereupon we shall then be of like mind in what the truth is about the Word.
Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Heaven will then come here on the earth when the Lord commences to reign following the last indignation when Satan, the beast, and the false prophets 42 month reign concludes. The beast and the false prophet will then be cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 19:20), while Satan will be cast into the bottomless pit for a thousand years (Revelation 20:3), while heaven (Christs kingdom) comes on the earth.
Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Do you notice how nearly everyone here has differing opinions on what different aspects of the Word represent? This is because we are all currently deceived by the devil (Revelation 12:9) who masquerading as an angel of true illumination (2 Corinthians 11:14), in fact provides us all with his deceptions. This deception from the devil will soon, however, come to an end upon him being cast out into the earth, whereupon we shall then be of like mind in what the truth is about the Word.
Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Are you equating "the man child" / "the male [G730 - arsena/arren]" [singular] with "the remnant/rest [plural] of her seed" (as the same entity/person/persons)??
[I see "the remnant/rest [PLURAL]" to correlate with Micah 5:3 (distinct from v.2 which refers to Jesus' birth [I do not say Rev12 refers to it])... May the readers note the word "UNTIL" in v.3 of Micah 5... I do not equate these PLURALS with "the man child / the male [SINGULAR]" who had been "caught up" before this point/before when v.17 (of Rev12) unfolds upon the earth]
[I see "the remnant/rest [PLURAL]" to correlate with Micah 5:3 (distinct from v.2 which refers to Jesus' birth [I do not say Rev12 refers to it])... May the readers note the word "UNTIL" in v.3 of Micah 5... I do not equate these PLURALS with "the man child / the male [SINGULAR]" who had been "caught up" before this point/before when v.17 (of Rev12) unfolds upon the earth]
Why do you think there is a time difference mentioned between those who are dead rising first than those who are alive? Is it because there are a few minutes or less in difference? Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up to be together with those who will have earlier been caught up to Christ. Do we remain for a few seconds, minutes or hours after the martyrs are caught up first?
As I have shown, I believe in a future 3.5 year tribulation, that starts at the revealing of the Antichrist, and the abomination takes place.
I believe the two Witnesses will stand before the beast/antichrist for the entire time of the 3.5 years, bringing all plagues as Often as they will, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt
As seen in Rev 11, when these two Witnesses finish their testimony and are killed the final hours of earth's existence unfolds as they rise to heaven after 3.5 days dead, eaethquake, fear, as the second coming takes place in final fire in judgemnt, the earth is dissolved,the new heaven, earth, jerusalem are revealed for eternity in the twinkling of an eye.
There will be no future Millennium on this earth,its gone
I believe the two Witnesses will stand before the beast/antichrist for the entire time of the 3.5 years, bringing all plagues as Often as they will, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt
As seen in Rev 11, when these two Witnesses finish their testimony and are killed the final hours of earth's existence unfolds as they rise to heaven after 3.5 days dead, eaethquake, fear, as the second coming takes place in final fire in judgemnt, the earth is dissolved,the new heaven, earth, jerusalem are revealed for eternity in the twinkling of an eye.
There will be no future Millennium on this earth,its gone