Is the Great Commission irrelevant for the church now?

[Absolutely]

John 3:16 is like one of the first verse we memorized out of Sunday School and I do understand the immense popularity of that verse and I think the message of that verse is indeed wonderful.

But if you adopt a dispensational view of the Bible, John 3:16 is actually part of the Old Covenant. When John 3:16 tells us that we need to believe in Jesus to have eternal life, the next question is believe what about Jesus? You have to understand that verse in the context of John 20:31

But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

But according to Paul, in the current Gospel of Grace, you need to believe in the following thing about Jesus, 1 Cor 15:4

For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that He was buried, that He was raised on the thirdday according to the Scriptures

Thus when Jesus said those words in John, that DBR have not happened. What were the Jews supposed to believe in Jesus then? That he is the promised Messiah, the Son of God. That is the Gospel of the Kingdom.

But now, under the Gospel of Grace, we don't tell unbelievers to believe in that, we now follow Paul's instructions to teach them that the good news is to believe in the DBR of Jesus.

TLDR version: As wonderful as John 3:16 is, strictly speaking, it is as OT as the rest of the OT. When we read it now, we are reading in the context of what we learn from Paul. But the Jewish listeners during the 4 Gospels viewed it very differently from us.

That jn 3;16 verse ruins your entire deal.
Your softshoe dance is clever.
Clever is not from heaven sir

 

[Absolutely]

You know, and i have probably been guilty of tbis too, us Christians insulting each other, being sbript, and curt in our conversations is a terrible example go the world. I am 100% sure that on this site, over the years, we have potentially turned some people off to Christianity that may have been on the fence.
The fact that there is a thread that instructs us to be civil is damning enough.
Last week while typing in Christianchat onto a new tablet i got i accidentally came across a site that was reviewing this site, by people who have been on here. Now i realize that probably some of the reviews were by atheists and Christ haters, but not all of them could have been. I would say about 65% of the comments were negative. It is embarassing.
If for any other reason, that we care about the souls of the lost, we must tone it down here. We are going to be accountable for our words and attitudes.
Whether we want to admit or not, this is public conversation. We are being watched and people are forming opinions about us individually and as a site and a group.

And how about this!! Sorry for the upcoming caps, but God just confirmed go me that this message is something He wants to be on here.

Just as i was about to tap the post reply button, my daughter, who is on her cell phone on Youtube, said dad, listen to what i came across, just browsing around. So went to tell me that a poster, who is Christian, was complaining about HOW CHRISTIANS TREAT EACH OTHER, AND HOW HE "IS TIRED OF OTHER CHRISTIANS".

Thats a confirmation, if you ask me.

Several things come to mind.
I know i post differently when walking in the spirit,because love increases.
There also is a passion amongst believers for the bible and a loathing of false doctrine,especially when they are teaching it as authority.
Hence lively debate.
If lively debate is interpreted as mean spirited then we have a perception issue,not a love/disrespect issue.
That is why i believe engaging others should be concept vs concept,not personal attacks.
Once going personal escalates,the mods enter into adult day care mode,and the chips fall where they may.
Being misunderstood,or mis-interpreted is pretty common,because we can not see each other.
Dry humor,innocent humor,kidding around,can invoke wrath.
Giving someone the benefit of the doubt goes a long way.

As far as turning off and emotionally damaging non believers/believers,yes we can all do better,but that needs to be framed to include the other side of the coin...walking on egg shells

 

[kaylagrl]

That jn 3;16 verse ruins your entire deal.
Your softshoe dance is clever.
Clever is not from heaven sir

What he's saying doesn't even make sense. It's silly to even try to make the argument. Then he gets ignorant with people that call him out. Ridiculous.

 

[kaylagrl]

You know, and i have probably been guilty of tbis too, us Christians insulting each other, being sbript, and curt in our conversations is a terrible example go the world. I am 100% sure that on this site, over the years, we have potentially turned some people off to Christianity that may have been on the fence.
The fact that there is a thread that instructs us to be civil is damning enough.
Last week while typing in Christianchat onto a new tablet i got i accidentally came across a site that was reviewing this site, by people who have been on here. Now i realize that probably some of the reviews were by atheists and Christ haters, but not all of them could have been. I would say about 65% of the comments were negative. It is embarassing.
If for any other reason, that we care about the souls of the lost, we must tone it down here. We are going to be accountable for our words and attitudes.
Whether we want to admit or not, this is public conversation. We are being watched and people are forming opinions about us individually and as a site and a group.

And how about this!! Sorry for the upcoming caps, but God just confirmed go me that this message is something He wants to be on here.

Just as i was about to tap the post reply button, my daughter, who is on her cell phone on Youtube, said dad, listen to what i came across, just browsing around. So went to tell me that a poster, who is Christian, was complaining about HOW CHRISTIANS TREAT EACH OTHER, AND HOW HE "IS TIRED OF OTHER CHRISTIANS".

Thats a confirmation, if you ask me.

When you challenge someone in false doctrine I find they tend to attack. But that cannot be helped if you are going to stand for the truth of God's word. To say anyone but God alone can forgive sins is pure false doctrine.It goes against Scripture,the fact that Christ was crucified for the remission of our sins. It's important to know false doctrine, correct it and stand for the truth. If that looks like conflict it cannot be helped. The truth of the Word is more important than offending peoples sensibilities.

 

[Guojing]

That jn 3;16 verse ruins your entire deal.
Your softshoe dance is clever.
Clever is not from heaven sir

Care to explain how John 3 16 means the great commission must be towards Jews and gentiles? What is the exact link?

 

[Guojing]

What he's saying doesn't even make sense. It's silly to even try to make the argument. Then he gets ignorant with people that call him out. Ridiculous.

I think it’s even more ridiculous for you to have such poor reading comprehension that you insist I am promoting John 20:21 for the church today, when I have already stated throughout this thread that it was not meant for us to follow.

One can explain as clearly as he can but no way can we account for such poor reading among our readers.

 

[kaylagrl]

I think it’s even more ridiculous for you to have such poor reading comprehension that you insist I am promoting John 20:21 for the church today, when I have already stated throughout this thread that it was not meant for us to follow.

One can explain as clearly as he can but no way can we account for such poor reading among our readers.

Not taking about John.

 

[Guojing]

When you challenge someone in false doctrine I find they tend to attack. But that cannot be helped if you are going to stand for the truth of God's word. To say anyone but God alone can forgive sins is pure false doctrine.It goes against Scripture,the fact that Christ was crucified for the remission of our sins. It's important to know false doctrine, correct it and stand for the truth. If that looks like conflict it cannot be helped. The truth of the Word is more important than offending peoples sensibilities.

Your reading comprehension is really poor here. Read this reply of mine again. Do you understand what "I agree with you about the point "Only Christ can forgive sins", means in English?

Okay, why not quote the verse here again and tell me how you interpret that verse into "Only Christ can forgive sins".

I agree with you about the point in "", I just want to know how in the world you can get that truth from that verse alone.

 

[kaylagrl]

Your reading comprehension is really poor here. Read this reply of mine again. Do you understand what "I agree with you about the point "Only Christ can forgive sins", means in English?

You keep bringing up the verse, not me,so why are you arguing if you understand only Christ could and can forgive sins? No one is going to hear the Gospel unless WE tell it. What have you against sharing the Gospel? You're picking at threads making no point at all and blasting anyone who disagrees insult them. You're all over the map. If you have information that can save a persons life aren't you obligated to share it? I don't see the point in all your squabbling. What's the straightforward point you're trying to make in one sentence? Quit blowin at the fur and get to the hide for pity sake!

 

[Guojing]

You keep bringing up the verse, not me,so why are you arguing if you understand only Christ could and can forgive sins? No one is going to hear the Gospel unless WE tell it. What have you against sharing the Gospel? You're picking at threads making no point at all and blasting anyone who disagrees insult them. You're all over the map. If you have information that can save a persons life aren't you obligated to share it? I don't see the point in all your squabbling. What's the straightforward point you're trying to make in one sentence? Quit blowin at the fur and get to the hide for pity sake!

Well if you are claiming that someone is promoting false doctrine, that someone should have the right to clarify that it is instead your poor reading comprehension abilities correct?

 

[kaylagrl]

Well if you are claiming that someone is promoting false doctrine, that someone should have the right to clarify that it is instead your poor reading comprehension abilities correct?

How bout you answer one question I asked? If you'd wanted to clarify you could have done it. But you're still blowin at that fur.... I don't think you even know what point you're trying to make.

 

[Guojing]

How bout you answer one question I asked? If you'd wanted to clarify you could have done it. But you're still blowin at that fur.... I don't think you even know what point you're trying to make.

Is there a new question you have that I have not already addressed in this Long discussion thread?

 

[kaylagrl]

Is there a new question you have that I have not already addressed in this Long discussion thread?

Your point... You haven't made one.

 

[Guojing]

Your point... You haven't made one.

I made a point about your poor reading comprehension ability. You claim I made a false doctrine when I did not.

 

[kaylagrl]

I made a point about your poor reading comprehension ability. You claim I made a false doctrine when I did not.

This is where the issue began...

Quote -John 20:23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”

Does your church follow this? Why not?


As I have said in the opening post of this thread, the Roman Catholics took that verse seriously in their concept of absolution. In early Acts, I can see Peter practicing that by basically condemning Ananias and Sapphira to their deaths for lying to the Holy Spirit.

Nowadays of course, no Protestant Church that I know of, take that verse seriously. It showed that certain instructions provided for under the GC, are no longer relevant for the current dispensation of Grace.

To which several posters called you on it saying only God can forgive. Now you post to me and say that you agree that only God can forgive. It didn't seem that is what you were saying in your posts. So apparently everyone in this thread got it wrong. Perhaps it' s not that people have trouble with reading comprehension, perhaps you are horrible at making your point.

 

[Melach]

of course its relevant. it was said after Jesus resurrection to His disciples.

i believe only devil wouldnt want us bring the gospel to all world. we need all saved and believe in Jesus

 

[JosephsDreams]

Several things come to mind.
I know i post differently when walking in the spirit,because love increases.
There also is a passion amongst believers for the bible and a loathing of false doctrine,especially when they are teaching it as authority.
Hence lively debate.
If lively debate is interpreted as mean spirited then we have a perception issue,not a love/disrespect issue.
That is why i believe engaging others should be concept vs concept,not personal attacks.
Once going personal escalates,the mods enter into adult day care mode,and the chips fall where they may.
Being misunderstood,or mis-interpreted is pretty common,because we can not see each other.
Dry humor,innocent humor,kidding around,can invoke wrath.
Giving someone the benefit of the doubt goes a long way.

As far as turning off and emotionally damaging non believers/believers,yes we can all do better,but that needs to be framed to include the other side of the coin...walking on egg shells

I dont have an issue with what you said. Emotional, spirited, lively, passionate, guarding Gods word, etc.
Just I have seen bad etiquette and downright rudeness and insults here at times. Crossing the line of what hou mentioned. There is no good reason for it.

 

[Guojing]

This is where the issue began...

Quote -John 20:23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”

Does your church follow this? Why not?


As I have said in the opening post of this thread, the Roman Catholics took that verse seriously in their concept of absolution. In early Acts, I can see Peter practicing that by basically condemning Ananias and Sapphira to their deaths for lying to the Holy Spirit.

Nowadays of course, no Protestant Church that I know of, take that verse seriously. It showed that certain instructions provided for under the GC, are no longer relevant for the current dispensation of Grace.

To which several posters called you on it saying only God can forgive. Now you post to me and say that you agree that only God can forgive. It didn't seem that is what you were saying in your posts. So apparently everyone in this thread got it wrong. Perhaps it' s not that people have trouble with reading comprehension, perhaps you are horrible at making your point.

I see you are finally wiling to quote that verse.

John 20:23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”

Tell me how one will interpret this verse as it is written. What exactly is the verse saying, if we read as it is, without bringing in other Bible verses?

In the end, if all of us accept that only God can forgive sins, it is clear what we are going beyond this verse and using other Bible verses in our interpretation of this particular verse. That is actually fine. We should not form our church doctrine based on just one verse from the Bible, if its not backed by other passages.

 

[Guojing]

of course its relevant. it was said after Jesus resurrection to His disciples.

i believe only devil wouldnt want us bring the gospel to all world. we need all saved and believe in Jesus

When someone say the GC is irrelevant to the Gentile church, it does not mean he is against spreading the Gospel. But spread the CORRECT gospel, which is the gospel of grace given to Paul, and NOT the gospel of the kingdom which is given to the 12 Jewish disciples.

 

[Absolutely]

When someone say the GC is irrelevant to the Gentile church, it does not mean he is against spreading the Gospel. But spread the CORRECT gospel, which is the gospel of grace given to Paul, and NOT the gospel of the kingdom which is given to the 12 Jewish disciples.

30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,

31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

Looks like ole Paul got deceived.
He ended up preaching the gospel of the kingdom.

Pssst....feldic and miles stamford are false teachers

Jseus preached salvation through Jesus
The apostles the same
That 2 gospel mess is off