Is The Mosaic Law Beneficial For Those Who Have Faith?

[just-me]

I agree that works do not EARN salvation, it is a gift. Do you reward your children with gifts when they curse? When they steal from the local supermarket? When they intentionally do things you tell them not to do?

Does God reward those who intentionally do the things He tells them not to do? More importantly, does He reward those who intentionally do NOT do those things He tells them TO DO?

When your father corrected you was it for doing the things he instructed you to do? Or was it for disobedience?

Heb 12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

See Deut 5:29 below.

Heb 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Why would He expect us to toe the line?

Deu 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

Because that terrible old Law is a burden?

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

No, because they are for our good...

Deu 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

For how long? FOREVER! Eternal life...

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

I am with all you wrote here. All scripture, including the law in 2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

When seeing the ALL of the Word of God in the way that you described, we can see a love that is fulfilled (complete), not negated. The law of God instructs us in righteousness, along with the rest of scripture. As we look into James 1:25 (KJV) we can clearly understand that this liberty is not separate from the Mosaic law.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Judgment follows according to God's plan according to the LAW OF LIBERTY.

James 2:11-13 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

 

[john832]

I am with all you wrote here. All scripture, including the law in 2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

When seeing the ALL of the Word of God in the way that you described, we can see a love that is fulfilled (complete), not negated. The law of God instructs us in righteousness, along with the rest of scripture. As we look into James 1:25 (KJV) we can clearly understand that this liberty is not separate from the Mosaic law.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Judgment follows according to God's plan according to the LAW OF LIBERTY.

James 2:11-13 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

The Law of Liberty gives us wonderful blessings...

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

It converts us and makes us wise. Wise enough to not do the things that hurt us and wise enough to do the things that bring wonderful blessings.

Psa 19:8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.

Let me interpose another verse here...

Psa 119:105 NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

In fact, the 119th Psalm is always an encouraging read.

Psa 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
Psa 19:10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
Psa 19:11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.

How are we warned?

Here is a passage in Proverbs that comes to mind...

Pro 5:3 For the lips of a strange woman drop as an honeycomb, and her mouth is smoother than oil:
Pro 5:4 But her end is bitter as wormwood, sharp as a twoedged sword.
Pro 5:5 Her feet go down to death; her steps take hold on hell.
Pro 5:6 Lest thou shouldest ponder the path of life, her ways are moveable, that thou canst not know them.
Pro 5:7 Hear me now therefore, O ye children, and depart not from the words of my mouth.
Pro 5:8 Remove thy way far from her, and come not nigh the door of her house:
Pro 5:9 Lest thou give thine honour unto others, and thy years unto the cruel:
Pro 5:10 Lest strangers be filled with thy wealth; and thy labours be in the house of a stranger;
Pro 5:11 And thou mourn at the last, when thy flesh and thy body are consumed,
Pro 5:12 And say, How have I hated instruction, and my heart despised reproof;
Pro 5:13 And have not obeyed the voice of my teachers, nor inclined mine ear to them that instructed me!
Pro 5:14 I was almost in all evil in the midst of the congregation and assembly.
Pro 5:15 Drink waters out of thine own cistern, and running waters out of thine own well.
Pro 5:16 Let thy fountains be dispersed abroad, and rivers of waters in the streets.
Pro 5:17 Let them be only thine own, and not strangers' with thee.
Pro 5:18 Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth.
Pro 5:19 Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love.
Pro 5:20 And why wilt thou, my son, be ravished with a strange woman, and embrace the bosom of a stranger?
Pro 5:21 For the ways of man are before the eyes of the LORD, and he pondereth all his goings.
Pro 5:22 His own iniquities shall take the wicked himself, and he shall be holden with the cords of his sins.
Pro 5:23 He shall die without instruction; and in the greatness of his folly he shall go astray.

Warnings concerning the seventh Commandment.

Psa 19:12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.

How do we see our faults and errors that we do not recognize? By studying God's Law.

Psa 19:13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
Psa 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

Passage such as those found in the Psalms is why David is referred to as a man after God's own heart.

 

[just-me]

T
Psa 19:13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
Psa 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

Passage such as those found in the Psalms is why David is referred to as a man after God's own heart.

Sounds like the example of Nadab and Abihu, concerning presumptuous sin. Wrote a document a while back about this and it was followed by an adamant rejection of accusation that I endorsed that the law was necessary for salvation. I know it's our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ but as it is, faith doesn't negate the law in its proper place.

For anyone who is interested you can find it at Nadab And Abihu

 

[john832]

Sounds like the example of Nadab and Abihu, concerning presumptuous sin. Wrote a document a while back about this and it was followed by an adamant rejection of accusation that I endorsed that the law was necessary for salvation. I know it's our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ but as it is, faith doesn't negate the law in its proper place.

For anyone who is interested you can find it at Nadab And Abihu

The schoolmaster that was to bring us to Christ is the law of animal sacrifices. A reading of...

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

A reading of the chapter reveals this...

Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

The sacrifices were a shadow or type of the perfect sacrifice of Christ. This si what is referred to in Gal 3...

Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

We no longer need a shadow (the animal sacrifices) to bring to remembrance our sins and our need for redemption. The Redeemer has come and shed His blood that can take away sin. As Gal 3:21 and Heb 10:4 show, those sins were not taken away, but God winked at them, He was able to see that those who repented and claimed the sacrifice, would be justified by the later perfect sacrifice of Christ. God is able to see things much differently than we do, He is not bound by time...

Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree that works do not EARN salvation, it is a gift. Do you reward your children with gifts when they curse? When they steal from the local supermarket? When they intentionally do things you tell them not to do?

Does God reward those who intentionally do the things He tells them not to do? More importantly, does He reward those who intentionally do NOT do those things He tells them TO DO?

Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Gal 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

You mean to tell me God expects me to do certain things, refrain from certain things or He will (gasp - choke - wheeze) punish me?

Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
Heb 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

Rebuked for what? Disobedience.

Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

Just for the fun of it? Or does He discipline us for disobeying, for doing the things that hurt us.

Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

When your father corrected you was it for doing the things he instructed you to do? Or was it for disobedience?

Heb 12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

See Deut 5:29 below.

Heb 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Why would He expect us to toe the line?

Deu 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

Because that terrible old Law is a burden?

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

No, because they are for our good...

Deu 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

For how long? FOREVER! Eternal life...

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

see your speaking out of both sides of your mouth again.

A parent gives a child a gift out of love, not only because the child did good. No child is perfect.

What you just said, You as a parent gives gifts, BUT ONLY IF THE CHILD EARNED IT.

thus it is not a gift. IT IS A REWARD for good behavior.

Thats a works based gospel. YOU must EARN your gift. or you will not recieve it, That is not a gift.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The schoolmaster that was to bring us to Christ is the law of animal sacrifices.

wrong. That was PART of it yes, but that is NOT ALL OF IT

the LAW was also given to prove we are sinners. Paul makes this clear!

[SUP]7 [/SUP]What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]8 [/SUP]But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. [SUP]9 [/SUP]I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. [SUP]10 [/SUP]And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

We would not KNOW we were sinners (and continually sin ) if it were not for the law. If you do not KNOW you are a sinner, and continually sin, YOU WOULD NEVER KNOW YOUR NEED FOR CHRIST!

 

[just-me]

see your speaking out of both sides of your mouth again.

A parent gives a child a gift out of love, not only because the child did good. No child is perfect.

What you just said, You as a parent gives gifts, BUT ONLY IF THE CHILD EARNED IT.

thus it is not a gift. IT IS A REWARD for good behavior.

Thats a works based gospel. YOU must EARN your gift. or you will not recieve it, That is not a gift.

I see the points on both sides that have good things presented to us, but if I may, could we concentrate on the benefits of the law for those of us that have the faith given to us as a gift? I don't think anyone feels as if we can earn our rewards by the works of the law. Some will feel it necessary for themselves to do certain kinds of works because the Spirit motivates them to do that. Others may be motivated to do other things different than others. Sincerity and faith in God through Christ Jesus is all we can agree on. I started these thread to enlighten people that haven't seen things we do and recognize them as good. It's for the purpose of edification so we can grow, and if God be willing to have our faith increased according to His grace toward us.

Luke 17:5-6 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.

A sycamine is a tree that looks the same as a sycamore but it's hard to tell the difference until it bears fruit. Just something to think about. Good bless us in strength and wisdom as we continue to share with one another.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is true. It works the other way too, if we think about it. Those that totally deny the law as extinct, over, done away with, corrupt, only for the Jews, etc. don't know the truth either. It is the love that we are to have in our hearts to enlighten with meekness, considering ourselves. God bless ya man.

Matthew 5:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

fulfill=completed, not negated

I would agree in part.

what we have to watch out for is the legalists. Who claim we who take the law at fact value (as schoolmaster) love sin and negate the law. For most of us this is not true. Thus when you hear someone say this we should ask what they mean.

1. Is it ok to sin??
2. What laws? (the passover, circumcision, priesthood etc are done away with)
3. Do you mean for salvation only?


most, Like john here. Do not understand us, Because we say the law is no longer valid (for salvation) they claim we negate the whole law. When in reality, They are the ones trying to be saved by it (as proven by his posts)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I see the points on both sides that have good things presented to us, but if I may, could we concentrate on the benefits of the law for those of us that have the faith given to us as a gift? I don't think anyone feels as if we can earn our rewards by the works of the law. Some will feel it necessary for themselves to do certain kinds of works because the Spirit motivates them to do that. Others may be motivated to do other things different than others. Sincerity and faith in God through Christ Jesus is all we can agree on. I started these thread to enlighten people that haven't seen things we do and recognize them as good. It's for the purpose of edification so we can grow, and if God be willing to have our faith increased according to His grace toward us.

Luke 17:5-6 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.

A sycamine is a tree that looks the same as a sycamore but it's hard to tell the difference until it bears fruit. Just something to think about. Good bless us in strength and wisdom as we continue to share with one another.

I have no problem with this bro. Just ask that when you see someone who is NOT saying this, to call them out.

we can not let someone claim to be following the law for love, Then in the same breath use it to condemn others, because they can not fulfill it (call Gods gift a reward) that is another gospel which is NOT a gospel of Christ. and dangerous. would you not agree??

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I see the points on both sides that have good things presented to us, but if I may, could we concentrate on the benefits of the law for those of us that have the faith given to us as a gift? I don't think anyone feels as if we can earn our rewards by the works of the law. Some will feel it necessary for themselves to do certain kinds of works because the Spirit motivates them to do that. Others may be motivated to do other things different than others. Sincerity and faith in God through Christ Jesus is all we can agree on. I started these thread to enlighten people that haven't seen things we do and recognize them as good. It's for the purpose of edification so we can grow, and if God be willing to have our faith increased according to His grace toward us.

Luke 17:5-6 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.

A sycamine is a tree that looks the same as a sycamore but it's hard to tell the difference until it bears fruit. Just something to think about. Good bless us in strength and wisdom as we continue to share with one another.

by the way, have you seen a mustard seed? it is one of the smallest seeds around. So very small in fact you can hardly see it, even when in your hand.

This is the kind of faith God says to have in him. This is all that is requried for salvic faith. What does that seed produce? one of the largest trees around. which shows us what? God can take our little faith, give power to it, And grow this wonderful large tree (works) which glorify him.

Those who teach we can lose salvation deny this fact. for they are trusting in self. not God, to grow the seed.

 

[just-me]

I would agree in part.

what we have to watch out for is the legalists. Who claim we who take the law at fact value (as schoolmaster) love sin and negate the law. For most of us this is not true. Thus when you hear someone say this we should ask what they mean.

1. Is it ok to sin??
2. What laws? (the passover, circumcision, priesthood etc are done away with)
3. Do you mean for salvation only?


most, Like john here. Do not understand us, Because we say the law is no longer valid (for salvation) they claim we negate the whole law. When in reality, They are the ones trying to be saved by it (as proven by his posts)

One thing we must understand in its fullness, it to be patient and to take the time to understand what people are really saying. If the law is our schoolmaster to lead us to Christ, then it is the avenue to Christ. God gave us that avenue, and if we neglect it we are searching for our own way instead of His. It may sound like people are saying that the only way to get salvation is through the law but they are not. The avenue (schoolmaster) that God has given is not the Savior. I think everybody could agree. The problem lies in that if one says the law is necessary to receive salvation they are really saying that it is the route to salvation because God wants it that way, and it works because He made a way to come to Jesus Christ that is perfect. If Jesus wasn't there, at the end of the road, I think we would all agree that the schoolmaster led us in the wrong direction and that God made a big mistake. If God made that mistake, then Jesus Christ would be fallible also. Hope that makes sense. If this turns into arguments as the other threads that I started, I will just have to back off as I did before, and let the cookies crumble where they will. Thanks and may God bless in our endeavors for His glory.

 

[GreenNnice]

Read Romans , front to back, and , the understanding of "the Law" will be understood

 

[john832]

see your speaking out of both sides of your mouth again.

A parent gives a child a gift out of love, not only because the child did good. No child is perfect.

What you just said, You as a parent gives gifts, BUT ONLY IF THE CHILD EARNED IT.

thus it is not a gift. IT IS A REWARD for good behavior.

Thats a works based gospel. YOU must EARN your gift. or you will not recieve it, That is not a gift.

I am speaking consistently, it is just not what you want to hear.

 

[john832]

wrong. That was PART of it yes, but that is NOT ALL OF IT

the LAW was also given to prove we are sinners. Paul makes this clear!

[SUP]7 [/SUP]What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]8 [/SUP]But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. [SUP]9 [/SUP]I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. [SUP]10 [/SUP]And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

We would not KNOW we were sinners (and continually sin ) if it were not for the law. If you do not KNOW you are a sinner, and continually sin, YOU WOULD NEVER KNOW YOUR NEED FOR CHRIST!

Explain to me how thou shalt not steal is a teacher that explains Christ and His sacrifice and His grace.

 

[john832]

wrong. That was PART of it yes, but that is NOT ALL OF IT

the LAW was also given to prove we are sinners. Paul makes this clear!

[SUP]7 [/SUP]What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]8 [/SUP]But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. [SUP]9 [/SUP]I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. [SUP]10 [/SUP]And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

We would not KNOW we were sinners (and continually sin ) if it were not for the law. If you do not KNOW you are a sinner, and continually sin, YOU WOULD NEVER KNOW YOUR NEED FOR CHRIST!

So, we need to obey the Law?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

One thing we must understand in its fullness, it to be patient and to take the time to understand what people are really saying. If the law is our schoolmaster to lead us to Christ, then it is the avenue to Christ. God gave us that avenue, and if we neglect it we are searching for our own way instead of His. It may sound like people are saying that the only way to get salvation is through the law but they are not. The avenue (schoolmaster) that God has given is not the Savior. I think everybody could agree. The problem lies in that if one says the law is necessary to receive salvation they are really saying that it is the route to salvation because God wants it that way, and it works because He made a way to come to Jesus Christ that is perfect. If Jesus wasn't there, at the end of the road, I think we would all agree that the schoolmaster led us in the wrong direction and that God made a big mistake. If God made that mistake, then Jesus Christ would be fallible also. Hope that makes sense. If this turns into arguments as the other threads that I started, I will just have to back off as I did before, and let the cookies crumble where they will. Thanks and may God bless in our endeavors for His glory.

I will just leave it there, as I do not want to hijack your thread.

Will just say, many say they do not follow law for salvation. But in reality they do. And this is dangerous. Galations 1 should be heeded

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Explain to me how thou shalt not steal is a teacher that explains Christ and His sacrifice and His grace.

How?

When I am not saved, I see that I stole money from a friend because he let me borrow money, and I did not pay it back. , Or stole a toy that I really wanted as a kid. This leads me to KNOW I am a sinner. This with the sacrificial law. shows I need help, which leads to Christ.

When I am saved. and I

1. see that I have stolen credit from God because he used me in a way that would glorify him. And I tried to take credit for it. That I have broken 2 commands (though shalt love lord your God, and though shalt not steel)
2. See that I have stolen time from God. Because I was too tired. or "whatever excuse" and I did not do something he gave me opportunity to do. I realise I have broken Gods command (thou shalt not steel)
3. When I see that I have stolen time from work, and took more than a 15 minute break. I realise I have broken Gods command Thou shalt not steel.

When I realise this, The schoolmaster does its job, It shows me I STILL AM GUILT. AND I STILL NEED CHRISTS MERCY.

you see. the problem with legalists, is they see though shalt not steel. and think, I do not steel money, or things, Everything I have I have purchased as commanded. So they think they are fulfilling the law and not sinners. When we come to Christ and mature in his grace. We realise though shalt not steel means MORE than not steeling physical things from people.

This is what the schoolmaster does. and WHY the law is still being fulfilled every day in our lives!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So, we need to obey the Law?

Need? as far as salvation?? You answer! yes or no. do we NEED to obey the law to be saved? or do we not need to obey the law to be saved?

 

[just-me]

Explain to me how thou shalt not steal is a teacher that explains Christ and His sacrifice and His grace.

Many times without being more definitive we can misunderstand. There is one law with 3 parts, one man with three parts, one egg with 3 parts, and one God with three parts. Concerning the law, we have the Levitical part, the moral part, and the judgmental part. It might help to define which part of the one law we are referring to. Just said that to help put an end to misunderstandings. That is why I can see legitimacy in what both of you are saying.

 

[just-me]

Need? as far as salvation?? You answer! yes or no. do we NEED to obey the law to be saved? or do we not need to obey the law to be saved?

Again, remember what I said about the schoolmaster? This is to you both. The schoolmaster shows US, the route to salvation. The pathway leads us. So the question is answered when we look at ourselves using the law (moral part) as the mirror James mentions. In the Levitical law, we see a way out from underneath the judgmental part so that we are no longer under its condemnation. But, we are still obligated to follow the moral aspects of the law, even though we fall short because of the war that is within ourselves as Paul describes about himself in Romans chapter 7. Does that make sense?

James 1:23-25 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.