Is the rapture found in II Thess. 2:3?

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Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,024
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#1
This thread is mostly for those who believe in a pretrib premillennial rapture. The rest of you may of course post anything you want and argue, . . . :)

I just ran across the idea that the KJV words "falling away" (apostasia) means literally "a departure". Some earlier translations before the KJV translated it this way. This was a new idea to me, and I am wondering what the rest of you think. Is this verse evidence for a pretrib rapture?

I do lean toward a pretrib rapture, but never saw the rapture in II Thess. 2:3 before. I am a bit skeptical, but want to know what the rest of you believe.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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#2
Not in the "dispensational" sense - it was return of the Lord to dwell with his people and destroy the enemies of the gospel (the apostate Jews and collaborators) that were persecuting the church during it's early days.

2 Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

2 Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Traditional dating of this letter is around 52-53 AD, so when Paul wrote the "day was not yet at hand" but coming soon to an apocalypse near them.

But it should be noted that Paul is promising THEM relief from tribulation at the hands of persecuting Jews and "friends"

2 Th 1:7 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

2 Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

2 Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

2 Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

2 Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Paul promised deliverance to the Thessalonians with Christ taking vengeance in "flaming fire" on the enemies of the Gospel - the apostate Jews (66-70AD).
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#3
The body presence of Christ and our gathering together unto him speaks for itself........literally-->The body presence of Christ, THAT IS TO SAY our gathering together unto HIM.....

JESUS comes and gatherers.....what do you suppose that means!

Written unto a N.T. CHURCH I might add!
 

Enow

Banned
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
39
0
#4
This thread is mostly for those who believe in a pretrib premillennial rapture. The rest of you may of course post anything you want and argue, . . . :)

I just ran across the idea that the KJV words "falling away" (apostasia) means literally "a departure". Some earlier translations before the KJV translated it this way. This was a new idea to me, and I am wondering what the rest of you think. Is this verse evidence for a pretrib rapture?

I do lean toward a pretrib rapture, but never saw the rapture in II Thess. 2:3 before. I am a bit skeptical, but want to know what the rest of you believe.
I believe the falling away from the faith is the reference meaning in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, but in context;

2 Thessalonians 2:1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

I read two events stated in verse 1. His actual coming and by the gathering together unto Him.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

I read that verse above as the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ since it pertains to comforting us presently.


[SUP]3 [/SUP]Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

I read two events again per the verse 1. The falling away from the faith is happening now and so His coming is at any moment and when the pre tribulational rapture happens, then afterwards the Lord will deal with that son of perdition when He returns with the saints at the end of the great tribulation.

1 Peter 4:17-19 cites that God will judge His House first; so that is what the pre trib rapture is for. Since the church is supposed to excommunicate unrepentant saved believers so as to lead them to repentance to be let back in, so will Jesus Christ do to each believer found not abiding in Him but found in iniquity. 1 Peter 4:19 gives us assurance that those left behind at the re trib rapture to suffer what is coming on the earth, Jesus will do well in keeping the souls of those saints.

So I see the falling away as meaning a departure from the faith as cited in 1 Timothy 4:1-2 which when it happens in droves where faith is hard to find in the latter days, then God will come to judge His House to restore the wayward saints to the path of righteousness for His name's sake because Jesus Christ really is the Good Shepherd to find His lost sheep.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#5
My view on the apostasy which coincides with the man of sin being revealed is more indicative of humanity being conditioned to receive the beast as God....before the man of sin can be revealed the falling away must take place.....humanity must reach a state of apostasy that is unrivaled in history.......and what is tragic is the biggest "so called" Christian country with the most churches of every flavor that names Jesus is embracing wickedness by law.........
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
2,926
678
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#6
This thread is mostly for those who believe in a pretrib premillennial rapture. The rest of you may of course post anything you want and argue, . . . :)

I just ran across the idea that the KJV words "falling away" (apostasia) means literally "a departure". Some earlier translations before the KJV translated it this way. This was a new idea to me, and I am wondering what the rest of you think. Is this verse evidence for a pretrib rapture?

I do lean toward a pretrib rapture, but never saw the rapture in II Thess. 2:3 before. I am a bit skeptical, but want to know what the rest of you believe.
I would also say, that 2. Thess. 2,3 speakes from the " day of the Lord" in vers 2 and with apostasia falling away is meant.

that means: before the day of the Lord comes.:
first must happend the apostasia (falling away)
first must happend the man of sin happend revealed, who sits in the temple of God, who exalts himself about all what is God.
(I suppose the antichrist)
But it is not said, that believers will expierience this time! So I believe we are pretrib raptured then!
 
P

prodigal

Guest
#7
so why did the Thessalonian think they missed the day of the lord if it meant the end of time. just wondering, you couldn't really miss that.



2thes 2

2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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684
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#8
"I read two events stated in verse 1. His actual coming and by the gathering together unto Him."

You dispensationalists are great at splitting hairs - that's one event/action only.

The other would be:

2 Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
 

88

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2016
3,517
75
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#9
This thread is mostly for those who believe in a pretrib premillennial rapture. The rest of you may of course post anything you want and argue, . . . :)

I just ran across the idea that the KJV words "falling away" (apostasia) means literally "a departure". Some earlier translations before the KJV translated it this way. This was a new idea to me, and I am wondering what the rest of you think. Is this verse evidence for a pretrib rapture?

I do lean toward a pretrib rapture, but never saw the rapture in II Thess. 2:3 before. I am a bit skeptical, but want to know what the rest of you believe.
***Paul was reassuring Christians that the Lord had not yet come (verse 2)---first there will be a fallen away because of the Rapture----after the Rapture the Anti-Christ will be revealed (the Presence of the Holy Spirit in the Church is preventing the Anti-Christ from being revealed (verse 7)...
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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#10
You people need to make up your minds, is it the "man of sin" or the "antichrist"?


1 Jo 2:18 Little youths, it is the last hour; and even as ye heard that the antichrist doth come, even now antichrists have become many -- whence we know that it is the last hour;

The last hour does not "last" for 20 centuries.
 
P

prodigal

Guest
#11
paul was re-assuring them they hadn't missed the end of time, mmm, or the day of the lord never meant end of time to them.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#12
"I read two events stated in verse 1. His actual coming and by the gathering together unto Him."

You dispensationalists are great at splitting hairs - that's one event/action only.

The other would be:

2 Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
Study a Grandsville Sharp in Greek...it literally states....

The body presence of Christ (Parousia) THAT IS TO SAY our gathering together unto HIM....It is one event......not 2!
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
684
113
#13
Study a Grandsville Sharp in Greek...it literally states....

The body presence of Christ (Parousia) THAT IS TO SAY our gathering together unto HIM....It is one event......not 2!

I already said that:

"that's one event/action only".