Is there an end of sin?

[VW]

It would seem that we would not even have to ask this question. If one says that they do not have sin then they are a liar and the truth is not in them. What is the end of sin?

God's creation, as He first created it in the beginning, was perfect, pure, holy, true, eternal, and without sin. There was no death. There was no sin. There was no dishonesty, no injustice, no inequity. God, being perfect Himself, has only perfect creations.

But sin entered. Lies entered. Death entered. Transgressions and inequity and injustice, all came about because of one lie, and one choice to believe that lie. Creation itself is subject to sin, even now, in the hope of a restoration to perfection.

Paul wrote that the entire creation groans and travails awaiting the revealing of the sons of God. Does this sound like sin is ended?

When we see Him, we will know just as we are known. But what is it we will know? Among other things, we will know the true depths of the deception, the lies, the utter sinfulness that we are in even now. Not sins themselves, but the sinfulness that still resides in us. There is nothing good that dwells in my flesh, only sin.

We will finally see sin in the way that God sees it, when we see Jesus with these eyes.

Not until the new heavens and the new earth will there be an end to sin, to the stain of sin, to the results of sin, when the creature is no longer subject to futility.

Do not believe the lie, sin is not ended. Sin has been paid for. Sin has been covered. We are able to fellowship with God because of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. But do not believe that when you fellowship with Him that He will not vividly point out to you your sins. Go to Him seeking revelation, seeking to know true righteousness, to be cleansed completely, each time you go to Him.

In His love,
vic

 

[zone]

It would seem that we would not even have to ask this question. If one says that they do not have sin then they are a liar and the truth is not in them. What is the end of sin?

all because you can't understand a single phrase....you end up denying messiah has come.

Hebrews 9:28
so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Ephesians 1:7
In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace

2 Corinthians 5:21
For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Acts 13:39
Through him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses.

Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Romans 3:22
This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference

Romans 3:21-26
The Righteousness of God Through Faith
But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Romans 5:9
Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him!

Romans 5:18
Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.

 

[VW]

all because you can't understand a single phrase....you end up denying messiah has come.

Hebrews 9:28
so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Ephesians 1:7
In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace

2 Corinthians 5:21
For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Acts 13:39
Through him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses.

Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Romans 3:22
This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference

Romans 3:21-26
The Righteousness of God Through Faith
But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Romans 5:9
Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him!

Romans 5:18
Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.

You are wrong. I do not deny that Jesus the Messiah has come.

All of your quotes show how Jesus has made us acceptable to God by His sacrifice.

Do you still need His forgiveness?

 

[VW]

Therefore, let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and may find grace to help in time of need.

Just throw that out of scripture, unless we are only to draw near to the throne once and only once.

Sin is not ended. It is forgiven.

Your theology has you separated from God, where you cannot draw near to Him in order to find eternal life.

 

[zone]

Therefore, let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and may find grace to help in time of need.

Just throw that out of scripture, unless we are only to draw near to the throne once and only once.

Sin is not ended. It is forgiven.

Your theology has you separated from God, where you cannot draw near to Him in order to find eternal life.

what an absurd substitution of human reasoning for God's ability to justify the ungodly through Christ's FINISHED WORK.

you've taken this so far away from Daniel, where Jesus Christ fulfilled all 70 weeks, and turned it into a carnally-minded conception of what it means that He was made to be SIN, though he knew none.

by denying Daniel's fulfillment, you deny messiah has come. end of story: you've joined the ranks of those who also believe that (the very ones who brainwashed you with dispensational/dual covenant theology).

and you also claim to be taught ONLY by The Holy Spirit.

here it is again for those who can actually see:

Daniel 9
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Christians are DECLARED righteous, Christ's Righteousness (accomplished for us EXACTLY as prophesied to Daniel) IMPUTED to the one who receives it by faith. The Christ's Fulfillment of the Everlasting Coveant is what has accomplished all those things

but your messiah didnt fulfill Daniel, so i don't know how you draw near to God, since your christ hasn't made an end to sin by making an end to the law, by bearing sin in his body, and by rising from the dead and ascending bringing in everlasting righteousness. your christ isn't even king.

 

[VW]

what an absurd substitution of human reasoning for God's ability to justify the ungodly through Christ's FINISHED WORK.

you've taken this so far away from Daniel, where Jesus Christ fulfilled all 70 weeks, and turned it into a carnally-minded conception of what it means that He was made to be SIN, though he knew none.

by denying Daniel's fulfillment, you deny messiah has come. end of story: you've joined the ranks of those who also believe that (the very ones who brainwashed you with dispensational/dual covenant theology).

and you also claim to be taught ONLY by The Holy Spirit.

here it is again for those who can actually see:

Daniel 9
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Christians are DECLARED righteous, Christ's Righteousness (accomplished for us EXACTLY as prophesied to Daniel) IMPUTED to the one who receives it by faith. The Christ's Fulfillment of the Everlasting Coveant is what has accomplished all those things

but your messiah didnt fulfill Daniel, so i don't know how you draw near to God, since your christ hasn't made an end to sin by making an end to the law, by bearing sin in his body, and by rising from the dead and ascending bringing in everlasting righteousness. your christ isn't even king.

Draw near to God, then come back and tell me that sin is ended.

 

[zone]

Draw near to God, then come back and tell me that sin is ended.

i already know He made a full end of sin FOR THOSE WHO BELEIVE.

but your messiah hasn't finished his work per Daniel 9...so dunno what you're talking about.

boring.

 

[Necto]

If the sin is ended, then you are sinless Zone now? Yes or no ?

 

[livingbygrace]

I believe that though in the flesh we do wrong/sin, in God's eyes we are seen as sinless because Christ paid the price of all our sin

For by one sacrifice he made forever PERFECT those who are BEING MADE HOLY

Rom 10:14

So we are perfect and sinless in the spiritual sense, even while we are being made Holy. But in the flesh still do wrong/sin

 

[Mark777]

I believe that though in the flesh we do wrong/sin, in God's eyes we are seen as sinless because Christ paid the price of all our sin

For by one sacrifice he made forever PERFECT those who are BEING MADE HOLY

Rom 10:14

So we are perfect and sinless in the spiritual sense, even while we are being made Holy. But in the flesh still do wrong/sin

Makes sense to me. (That reference should be Heb 10:14.) Jesus made an end of sin and that should become increasingly evident in my life as I am transformed into His image. "But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the lord." 2 Cor 3:18.

 

[Consumed]

we arein Christ

 

[Mark777]

Another thought.
"As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust, and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. And as we have bourne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man." 1 Cor 15:48-49.

Another passage which speaks of both the finished work of Christ (as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly) and the work which is yet to be accomplished in us (we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man).
This is not a case of "either/or", but of both statements being true at the same time. Christ has made an end of sin and "having begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ." Phil 1:6.

 

[zone]

Another thought.
"As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust, and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. And as we have bourne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man." 1 Cor 15:48-49.

Another passage which speaks of both the finished work of Christ (as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly) and the work which is yet to be accomplished in us (we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man).

This is not a case of "either/or", but of both statements being true at the same time. Christ has made an end of sin and "having begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ." Phil 1:6.

hi mark777.
this is a remarkable post that reveals the spiritual things Paul spoke of, so hard to be grasped by some (see peter).

reformed theology (amillennial) sees the TWO AGE model (or structure, or Plan) in Scripture.

basically you summarized it perfectly:

This is not a case of "either/or", but of both statements being true at the same time. Christ has made an end of sin and "having begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ." Phil 1:6

reformed (amillennial) says "ALREADY/NOT YET" as a way to describe your "not either/or".

it means exactly the same thing: that since Christ HAS Finished His Work (having sat down at the right hand of God), we IN HIM are perfected ALREADY/NOT YET....we have received our inheritence ALREADY/NOT YET, etc....that we live between TWO WORLDS (or ages)..THIS WORLD (ALREADY) and the WORLD TO COME (eternity/NOT YET).

good one mark! hold on to this light and keep going...set it high and help others see it. the "dispensationalist" can not see the ALREADY, placing everything in the future, NOT YET.

zone.

 

[resurrection33]

I think someday we will all stop sinning.

 

[dmdave17]

I think someday we will all stop sinning.

Yep. Right after “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.". (Matthew 24:30-31)

 

[VW]

hi mark777.
this is a remarkable post that reveals the spiritual things Paul spoke of, so hard to be grasped by some (see peter).

reformed theology (amillennial) sees the TWO AGE model (or structure, or Plan) in Scripture.

basically you summarized it perfectly:

This is not a case of "either/or", but of both statements being true at the same time. Christ has made an end of sin and "having begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ." Phil 1:6

reformed (amillennial) says "ALREADY/NOT YET" as a way to describe your "not either/or".

it means exactly the same thing: that since Christ HAS Finished His Work (having sat down at the right hand of God), we IN HIM are perfected ALREADY/NOT YET....we have received our inheritence ALREADY/NOT YET, etc....that we live between TWO WORLDS (or ages)..THIS WORLD (ALREADY) and the WORLD TO COME (eternity/NOT YET).

good one mark! hold on to this light and keep going...set it high and help others see it. the "dispensationalist" can not see the ALREADY, placing everything in the future, NOT YET.

zone.

Until the day of Jesus Christ. Beginning a good work does not show its finish yet. He will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus, that is the phrase Paul used.

And end of sin mean just that, no more sin, any where or any time by any one, ever. If that has happened already, then you are justified in your stance. Otherwise, you are deceived.

What you miss in your approach is the way that God sees sin, and what His reaction to it is. It should be obvious just by knowing the sacrifice He demanded of His Son just so we could be saved. But forgiveness of sins is not the end of salvation, but merely the beginning, the first step. Salvation is coming to know God personally, intimately, as our Father in fact. Any doctrine which prevents this, even any doctrine which does not promote this, is deception.

 

[Ramon]

It would seem that we would not even have to ask this question. If one says that they do not have sin then they are a liar and the truth is not in them. What is the end of sin?

God's creation, as He first created it in the beginning, was perfect, pure, holy, true, eternal, and without sin. There was no death. There was no sin. There was no dishonesty, no injustice, no inequity. God, being perfect Himself, has only perfect creations.

But sin entered. Lies entered. Death entered. Transgressions and inequity and injustice, all came about because of one lie, and one choice to believe that lie. Creation itself is subject to sin, even now, in the hope of a restoration to perfection.

Paul wrote that the entire creation groans and travails awaiting the revealing of the sons of God. Does this sound like sin is ended?

When we see Him, we will know just as we are known. But what is it we will know? Among other things, we will know the true depths of the deception, the lies, the utter sinfulness that we are in even now. Not sins themselves, but the sinfulness that still resides in us. There is nothing good that dwells in my flesh, only sin.

We will finally see sin in the way that God sees it, when we see Jesus with these eyes.

Not until the new heavens and the new earth will there be an end to sin, to the stain of sin, to the results of sin, when the creature is no longer subject to futility.

Do not believe the lie, sin is not ended. Sin has been paid for. Sin has been covered. We are able to fellowship with God because of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. But do not believe that when you fellowship with Him that He will not vividly point out to you your sins. Go to Him seeking revelation, seeking to know true righteousness, to be cleansed completely, each time you go to Him.

In His love,
vic

AMEN AMEN AMEN! Yes Amen again!

 

[Ramon]

I think someday we will all stop sinning.

Stop sinning TODAY!

 

[VW]

i already know He made a full end of sin FOR THOSE WHO BELEIVE.

but your messiah hasn't finished his work per Daniel 9...so dunno what you're talking about.

boring.

This is what makes me sad. You do not know what I am talking about when I say for you to draw near to God.

God, for reasons of His own, likes to do things in patterns. One pattern is in His commandments. They have been given in series of 3's. The 10 commandments were given 3 times. First, God spoke them out loud to the children of Israel. Then Moses went up on the mountain, saw God's glory, and God wrote the commandments out with His own finger. (Moses broke these tablets on the idol that Arron built for the people.) Then Moses carved out another set of commandment with his hand.

Jesus gave His new commandment 3 times. "Love one another even as I have loved you."

In Hebrews we are commanded to draw near to God, yep, 3 times. But the second time we are commanded to draw near is interesting. To quote, Hence, also, He is able to save forever those who are drawing near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

The entire purpose of Jesus' coming into the world is our reconciliation with God, that we might draw near to Him and be His people. God did not make man to have an object to punish. He made man to fellowship with Him.

 

[zone]

Until the day of Jesus Christ. Beginning a good work does not show its finish yet. He will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus, that is the phrase Paul used.

And end of sin mean just that, no more sin, any where or any time by any one, ever. If that has happened already, then you are justified in your stance. Otherwise, you are deceived.

What you miss in your approach is the way that God sees sin, and what His reaction to it is. It should be obvious just by knowing the sacrifice He demanded of His Son just so we could be saved. But forgiveness of sins is not the end of salvation, but merely the beginning, the first step. Salvation is coming to know God personally, intimately, as our Father in fact. Any doctrine which prevents this, even any doctrine which does not promote this, is deception.

cling to your error which denies that Jesus DID fulfill Daniel 9.
then you can use your little "proof text" about Him not having made an end of sin to deny all the other things listed, and attribute them to a future Antichrist.