Is there anything good in the law?

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crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#61
Nov 24, 2012
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#61
RedTent said:
But I am sure that you only see the cancellations.
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No I see this as part of the New Testament promised in Jer 31, this part at least Gentile believers also are partakers of.

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
(Jer 31:33-34)
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#62
Nov 24, 2012
30,712
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#62
RedTent said:
What a beautiful chapter! It isn't a chapter saying that the law isn't holy, or the law is only a curse, I don't see that in it at all. It is a chapter telling of how wonderful it is that we are given the Holy Spirit for our understanding. We don't have to read the law as only stone, the law is engraved on our hearts, also. The law and the Holy Spirit speak with one voice, when this chapter was breathed by God there was no idea that almost 2,000 years later, people wouldn't be Torah literate and would say the beauty that God gave us was cancelling everything before, only what was new would be true.
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It's a chapter highlighting the fact that the ministry of the Holy Spirit far surpasses that of Moses. God's will written on stone tablets could not compare to God's will/nature written on our hearts in the new birth by God Himself and now indwelling molding and shaping us into His image.
Like I said, no cancellation but by a new and better way whose recipients bear fruit of the Holy Spirit, not by their grunting and groaning trying to keep the law but by an inner working of God Himself.
 
Brother_Don

Brother_Don

Banned
#63
Jul 27, 2011
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#63
Yes. um. hmm. Amen. to me this is truth, and it won't be shaken. To another it may not be, but thats not for me to tell them they are wrong, or i am right. To me it's truth, call it a lie if you will. Giving people your personal testimony shouldn't be mocked, and ridiculed. thats the problem with a lot of the threads, its not sharing, its looks like people beating each other over the head with their belief. Lets share our journey with the LORD and stop telling others they are on a dead end road.
 
RedTent

RedTent

Banned
#65
Oct 31, 2011
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#65
crossnote said:
It's a chapter highlighting the fact that the ministry of the Holy Spirit far surpasses that of Moses. God's will written on stone tablets could not compare to God's will/nature written on our hearts in the new birth by God Himself and now indwelling molding and shaping us into His image.
Like I said, no cancellation but by a new and better way whose recipients bear fruit of the Holy Spirit, not by their grunting and groaning trying to keep the law but by an inner working of God Himself.
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All that the Lord has given to us in showing His love through the law, all the power and glory of it, it seems to me should never be called "grunting and groaning" because God added the Holy Spirit that was better.
 
RedTent

RedTent

Banned
#66
Oct 31, 2011
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#66
Brother_Don said:
Yes. um. hmm. Amen. to me this is truth, and it won't be shaken. To another it may not be, but thats not for me to tell them they are wrong, or i am right. To me it's truth, call it a lie if you will. Giving people your personal testimony shouldn't be mocked, and ridiculed. thats the problem with a lot of the threads, its not sharing, its looks like people beating each other over the head with their belief. Lets share our journey with the LORD and stop telling others they are on a dead end road.
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Amen!! God is so good, God wants the best for each of His creation He even gave His Son. And God's creation berate God even for what is only of goodness, and call each other liars, etc.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#67
#67
RedTent said:
All that the Lord has given to us in showing His love through the law, all the power and glory of it, it seems to me should never be called "grunting and groaning" because God added the Holy Spirit that was better.
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wow

Again. Those words were not crossnote saying this. It was God and the apostles saying those words.

I just pray you find the freedom and rest we have found soon. Although it seems more and more unlikely every day you puff up the law.
 
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chubbena

Guest
#68
#68
chubbena said:
Interesting you kept asking the same question whenever the commandments of God are mentioned.
So to keep it interesting still, I'm asking the same question again: have you kept the commandments of Jesus perfectly? :)
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eternally-gratefull said:
No I have not.

Thus according to the law I am condemned. And there is no turning back and starting over, and getting another chance.

If not for Christ. I would have no hope
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According to which law did you say you are condemned? The law which came through Moses? Or what you said "the law of love" by Jesus? Which law are you talking about? Or are they one and same which we shouldn't try to separate them c.f. post #21.
The OT is showing there's turning back and starting over and getting another chance. For example, the Israel nation as a whole and David as an individual so perhaps you have to clarify your statement.
If not for Christ, none have hope - same for those in OT, same for those in NT - that I agree.
 
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chubbena

Guest
#69
#69
followjja said:
The man of lawlessness, or iniquity in the KJV is Paul.

You NEED to read Jesus' words/teachings in the 4 gospels.
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The man of lawlessness, or iniquity is the one who misunderstands Paul.
The man of lawlessness, or iniquity is the one who pick and choose what to believe in the writings of Paul.

Calling to the stand Peter:
"Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other scriptures, to their own destruction. Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."

Calling the defendant Paul:
"I admit that I worship the God of our fathers as a follower of the Way, which the call a sect. I believe everything that agrees with the Law and that is written in the Prophets, and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked."
"I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds."
 
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chubbena

Guest
#70
#70
notuptome said:
The law is perfect and good. The problem is that men are not. Israel begged God for a law so they could show their faithfulness. Israel wanted to proved to God how good they were. They had a very high opinion of themselves. We know that the law cannot produce righteousness but makes manifest man's sin. The law makes sin personal. Before the law sin was not personal but corporate in nature.

The law is still good and the law still points men to Christ. The law still shows that only Gods grace is sufficient to save us.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Israel begged God for a king I know. They begged God for a law? Please show me where the scripture recorded that. Thanks
 
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chubbena

Guest
#71
#71
eternally-gratefull said:
there are one and the same, why are you trying to separate them?"
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RedTent said:
If you don't know, you truly need to get out your bible and study.
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The law must be one and the same - otherwise the argument using the letter to the Galatians would not stand. Got it?:p
 
S

Sirk

Guest
#72
#72
This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success. Joshua 1:8
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#73
#73
chubbena said:
According to which law did you say you are condemned? The law which came through Moses? Or what you said "the law of love" by Jesus? Which law are you talking about? Or are they one and same which we shouldn't try to separate them c.f. post #21.
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[SUP]10 [/SUP]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”[SUP][e][/SUP] [SUP]11 [/SUP]But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.”[SUP][f][/SUP] [SUP]12 [/SUP]Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”[SUP][g][/SUP]
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”[SUP][h][/SUP]), [SUP]14 [/SUP]that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

This law. given to moses, 400 years after the promise given to abraham, of which covenant I belong to.


The OT is showing there's turning back and starting over and getting another chance. For example, the Israel nation as a whole and David as an individual so perhaps you have to clarify your statement.
If not for Christ, none have hope - same for those in OT, same for those in NT - that I agree.
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The law says perfection. if I have broken the law I am cursed. there is no going back to the point of being perfect of my own accord. I will continue to be worthy of condemnation, if fact I will actually grow more condemned, as I continue to sin.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#74
#74
chubbena said:
The law must be one and the same - otherwise the argument using the letter to the Galatians would not stand. Got it?:p
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When the word "law" is used. it speaks of ALL the laws given to moses. They are ALL part of the :law of God" given to moses.

we can not separate them, they are one thing.
 
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Sirk

Guest
#75
#75
"Everything is permissible but not everything is profitable ." Don't recall the reference right off hand but notice in the pre fall world the first command gave was to be fruitful and multiply and subdue the earth. He didn't start off by making rules or laws. The law was given to the Jews to teach them about the future messiah. It is my opinion that when God made clothes for Adam and Eve out of animal skin He used a lamb skin. Everything in scripture points to Jesus.
 
ChosenbyHim

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
#76
Sep 19, 2011
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63
#76
RedTent said:
I HOPE peoplen't read my exploring how the Jews used law to live as "do as the Jews do". I did it to explore if there was anything good in law, but law as the Jews do often is law, not only as scripture says, but much of their personal interpretation added to it. To study to find a man made way to follow Christ would not be a good study at all.

Scripture tells us that Christ gives us the spiritual meaning of the "Jewish holidays and stuff" and we must go by that, but I cannot see how knowing these things can't lead to knowing the spiritual meaning Christ points out better, or that doing them is sinful.
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There were things that were good in the Law. In fact: the Law is good and holy. Paul affirms this in Rom. 7:12.

God gave the Nation of Israel His laws, statutes, and commandments to keep and to follow.

Old Testament saints were saved by keeping the Law.

And the righteousness that the Old Testament saints had was simply the righteousness of the Law. Now when people read of the righteousness of OT saints like Moses, David, or Job, a lot of times they will mistakenly equate their righteousness with sinlessness.

Righteousness in the Old Testament concerning a saint or patriarch, does not ever mean sinlessness. It just means they were righteous in that they kept the law of God.
 
RedTent

RedTent

Banned
#77
Oct 31, 2011
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#77
Especially on this Easter morning, when we praise the Lord, I thank all the people who praise all of the Lord with me. I had hoped we could show that even in the holy law, God meant us to use it for a good way to live. We have only set them into deeper determination to decide law is cursing, when God meant it to show a path to blessings. I am sorry. But it is encouraging to hear those who only praise their God. God is only good, God only wants the best for us all, both here and in the life to come. Thank you all who have knowledge of that to share with me.
 
RedTent

RedTent

Banned
#78
Oct 31, 2011
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#78
ChosenbyHim said:
.................... Old Testament saints were saved by keeping the Law----------.
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Thank you so much, Chosen, for knowing God meant the law for good, that it is holy. But, God never said in any scripture that he sent atonement (as being saved is called in the OT) because people were holy enough, it was always through the blood of Christ, even those they only used the shadow of that blood that wasn't as good as the blood after the crucifixion. If they could have saved themselves by something they did they would be as good as God, it was grace only even then.
 
ChosenbyHim

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
#79
Sep 19, 2011
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#79
RedTent said:
Thank you so much, Chosen, for knowing God meant the law for good, that it is holy. But, God never said in any scripture that he sent atonement (as being saved is called in the OT) because people were holy enough, it was always through the blood of Christ, even those they only used the shadow of that blood that wasn't as good as the blood after the crucifixion. If they could have saved themselves by something they did they would be as good as God, it was grace only even then.
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Well one thing you have to understand redtent is that in the time of the Old Testament back then, the Blood of Christ had not yet been shed.

So the blood of the bulls and goats had to be shed to cover and make a temporary atonement for their sins.

Now the blood of animals could not take away their sins; we know that from Hebrews 9, but when an Old Testament saint was saved, he was saved by works.

Understand that while OT Saints were saved by keeping the Law, still though, only the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ could take away sins and could purchase and offer eternal redemption for mankind.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#80
#80
ChosenbyHim said:
Old Testament saints were saved by keeping the Law.
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How could this be, Since moses made it clear. anyone who did not confirm ALL the words of the law and obey were cursed.

So how could the law save anyone?
 
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