Is there such a thing as being a mediocre christian?

[zone]

in any case maggie:

“Go and tell John what you hear and see: 5the blind receive their sight and the lame walk, lepersa are cleansed and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have good news preached to them. 6And blessed is the one who is not offended by me.”

please provide evidence you're restoring sight to the blind or raising the dead.
or whatever.

k...

 

[MaggieMye]

That does not support that John DOUBTED. John sent his disciples to CONFIRM that the One doing the works he was hearing of was, in fact, the SAME MAN known by John the baptist to be the Son of God. It was not that he doubted. He was only asking to know that they were one and the same person.

Maggie

 

[zone]

That does not support that John DOUBTED. John sent his disciples to CONFIRM that the One doing the works he was hearing of was, in fact, the SAME MAN known by John the baptist to be the Son of God. It was not that he doubted. He was only asking to know that they were one and the same person.

Maggie

how do you know for certain, maggie?
it's very possible a year in prison without the Messiah conquering Rome and freeing john could have caused him to doubt.

and anyway...confirm?
why...unless you were having doubts.
i conceded it may have been for confirmation or comfort.
you're wriggling out using semantics mag.

but anyway:

you said they had never met, dear
didn't ya?

ah well....back to my question.
what about all that operating in the supernatural or you're not saved thing?
like i asked...how many dead have y'all raised and such?

you might want to be a little more careful about that claim maggie...since that would disqualify you as well.
mkay then

 

[zone]

PS "The word I often hear is 'nominal Christians' which would mean a Christian in name only."

I agree! CHRISTIANS are SUPPOSED to be OF GOD...who is SUPERnatural. IF you are not operating in the SUPERnaturalness of God, you are not a Christian, Biblically. You cannot simply reiterate the little "come into my heart' prayer and think that you are 'in'. You are not. Everyone of you knows someone that has said the little prayer and they go on living their lives according to their own ways. They are not saved!!
Suffice it to say...and many of you will not like this... traditional denominations and Evangelicals, as well as far too many Pentecostals that are not operating in the Spiritual realm, led by the Spirit, obedient to the Spirit's counsel, DOing the spiritual things that the apostles in the Bible did, are not Born of God...not born again....not saved.
Why??? Because IF you are born of God you will be doing what He did when He was upon the earth AND MORE!
Mt 11:5 "[SUP]5 [/SUP]The blind see and the lame walk; the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear; the dead are raised up and the poor have the gospel preached to them." THIS is the KINGDOM OF GOD that Every Christian is to carry IN THEM (Christ is the Kingdom and He within us). If you are not doing what Christ did, there is no way you can claim to be 'born of God." IF you are of the Kingdom, you are doing Kingdom things!! Sunday school is not it; going to church is not it; and sad to say, most times for most calling themselves 'Christian', even praying is not a Kingdom thing because they pray without power and authority. Mostly they beg God to do what THEY want Him to do.
~to be "in the Spirit", which cannot be done without doing the things Christ did. Likewise, Vice versa, one cannot do the things Christ did without being in the Spirit.

ALL is spiritual. ALL. That God SPOKE us into existence is spiritual. Everything else falls under that.
Maggie

this is an outrageous post actually, on second look.

are you claiming christians are to be walking on water, turning water into wine and raising the dead or they're not saved Maggie?

 

[doulos]

Would it be safe to say a mediocre Christian is a lukewarm Christian?

Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

me·di·o·cre adjective \ˌmē-dē-ˈō-kər\

Definition of MEDIOCRE
: of moderate or low quality, value, ability, or performance : ordinary, so-so
See mediocre defined for English-language learners »
See mediocre defined for kids »
Examples of MEDIOCRE
The dinner was delicious, but the dessert was mediocre.
The carpenter did a mediocre job.
The critics dismissed him as a mediocre actor.
They sensed that mediocre students like Roosevelt really did possess a set of virtues that needed to be protected and cherished. —David Brooks, New York Times Book Review, 6 Nov. 2005

luke·warm adjective \ˈlük-ˈwȯrm\

Definition of LUKEWARM
1: moderately warm : tepid
2: lacking conviction : halfhearted <gave them only lukewarm support>
— luke·warm·ly adverb
— luke·warm·ness noun
See lukewarm defined for English-language learners »
See lukewarm defined for kids »
Examples of LUKEWARM
I hate drinking lukewarm coffee.
Our plan got a lukewarm reception.
The producer was lukewarm about her script.

 

[Bookends]

Would it be safe to say a mediocre Christian is a lukewarm Christian?

Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

me·di·o·cre adjective \ˌmē-dē-ˈō-kər\

Definition of MEDIOCRE
: of moderate or low quality, value, ability, or performance : ordinary, so-so
See mediocre defined for English-language learners »
See mediocre defined for kids »
Examples of MEDIOCRE
The dinner was delicious, but the dessert was mediocre.
The carpenter did a mediocre job.
The critics dismissed him as a mediocre actor.
They sensed that mediocre students like Roosevelt really did possess a set of virtues that needed to be protected and cherished. —David Brooks, New York Times Book Review, 6 Nov. 2005

luke·warm adjective \ˈlük-ˈwȯrm\

Definition of LUKEWARM
1: moderately warm : tepid
2: lacking conviction : halfhearted <gave them only lukewarm support>
— luke·warm·ly adverb
— luke·warm·ness noun
See lukewarm defined for English-language learners »
See lukewarm defined for kids »
Examples of LUKEWARM
I hate drinking lukewarm coffee.
Our plan got a lukewarm reception.
The producer was lukewarm about her script.

Jesus called them lukewarm because their fruit, their walk, was useless. They were useless because they were not the change agents in the culture that Jesus wanted them to be, instead the culture influenced them.

 

[coconut]

If i had spent one more year at being an "on fire" believer
the world would be in ruin.

Perhaps it is a good thing to be on fire for God and be doing the things that we would not normally do that is convenient and good for the flesh. Being a follower of Christ is not just having good doctrine but mixing faith with that doctrine and taking up a cross with that doctrine so that it can profit others in the will of God. Is there any greater vocation for the born again Christian then to take up their cross and preach the gospel to all men everywhere whether it is convenient or inconvenient? Even for the stay home mom who takes care of her family can make time to do these things on purpose without using the demands of her family as an excuse not to. How often have we taken the time to give the gospel of Christ to others, who do not know him, when opportunity was there? Are we called to preach the gospel or do we leave that to others who we believe are called? We can stay in mediocrity and refrain from the works of the flesh and never love and convert the sinner from the error of their way. We and also refrain from sharing one another's burdens in the body of Christ and lay our life down for the brethren. Many times we use our families, our jobs and the comfortability and security of our home life to excuse ourselves from doing the will of God and the works of God. I know this to be true, not just for me, but for all who have been redeemed by the blood of Christ.

 

[doulos]

Jesus called them lukewarm because their fruit, their walk, was useless. They were useless because they were not the change agents in the culture that Jesus wanted them to be, instead the culture influenced them.

And

that is different from a mediocre Christian? How?

 

[MaggieMye]

are you claiming christians are to be walking on water, turning water into wine and raising the dead or they're not saved Maggie?

The word of God tells us that IF we believe we will DO these things. If you are not doing them is it because you do not believe you are to or that you can? Regardless, it is because you do not believe! As of yet, I have not raised the dead. But I have laid hands on and a person was healed in the name of Jesus. She had severe, long term back/shoulder pain and could not lift her arm above her head. After ministering to her and two days later as she was painting her house, she realized she was constantly lifting her arm above her head WITHOUT PAIN. And all I did was put my hand on her back and say out loud, "Be healed in the name of Jesus Christ." THAT is doing kingdom things. And there have been other instances as well.
Maggie

 

[zone]

are you claiming christians are to be walking on water, turning water into wine and raising the dead or they're not saved Maggie?

The word of God tells us that IF we believe we will DO these things. If you are not doing them is it because you do not believe you are to or that you can? Regardless, it is because you do not believe! As of yet, I have not raised the dead. But I have laid hands on and a person was healed in the name of Jesus. She had severe, long term back/shoulder pain and could not lift her arm above her head. After ministering to her and two days later as she was painting her house, she realized she was constantly lifting her arm above her head WITHOUT PAIN. And all I did was put my hand on her back and say out loud, "Be healed in the name of Jesus Christ." THAT is doing kingdom things. And there have been other instances as well.
Maggie

wake up, maggie i think i got something to say to you.

Peter C. Wagner is not telling the truth.
the Disciples/Apostles - the foundation were empowered to do those things....evidence of their authority.
you're just playing.

and you're already in a lot of trouble.
end message.

 

[homwardbound]

I'm concerned I maybe one who has wasted lot of the resources God has entrusted me with. The fact that I'm concerned about this is a good thing. I think I have enough understanding of God's plan of redemption in order to make it in and genuinely want to please the Lord, but in many times I feel I have failed. "Fail" is not in the Bible. Neither is "failed" When we refuse to obey (for whatever reason) it simply reveals how much more training we need...that or our character. I ask my commander in chief to help me every day that I would die to self and pick up my cross and follow Him. I think those who claim to be Christian but have a pseudo faith absolutely no growth, no works, no obedience may find themselves on the other side of the gate, BUT is not for me point my finger and judge someones position in Christ.But it is! We ARE our brothers keeper and we are to hold each other accountable....whether they like it or not because we cannot keep silent for our own comfort. Agree?

M~

and this is based on deliveranc to one's brother, won't ever do a bit of good if it comes from flesh, but will reap life everlasting if it comes from God through you via the Holy Ghost through you as you by free choice have by god by the resurrected Christ

 

[homwardbound]

Satan is also spiritual and posses as an angel of light.

And this can discerned only by God living in you via the Holy Spirit of truth, of God and if we make a mistake in listening over a period of time we learn his voice as it took Abraham about 29 years to know when he heard
a loittle food for thought about growing in God's grace, he has got us and therefore no weapon formed against shall ever prosper, and no one can snatch us out of his hand, God is for us therefore others canact as if he is against us, but nothing can seperate us from God's love nothing

 

[Bookends]

And

that is different from a mediocre Christian? How?

This church had nothing to show for their faith, they were neither cold (refreshing to those who where spirtual thristy) or hot (healing to those who were spiritual hurting) I think they were worst then a mediocre Church or Christian. They were very rich in money and material things and in that culture you had to belong and engage in a favorable way with the culture and the trade guilds to prosper. In order to do business you had to belong to a guild, in which you had to compromise your belief to participate, such as with prostitution, or saying Caesar is Lord, or engaging in unfair/ethical business practices. So I'm suggesting that some or most in this Church weren't saved at all. Therefore Christ urges them to be zealous for Him and repent, and overcome the temptation to compromise with the culture not allow the culture to change them, but to be change agents within the culture for good/Christ.

 

[coconut]

wake up, maggie i think i got something to say to you.

Peter C. Wagner is not telling the truth.
the Disciples/Apostles - the foundation were empowered to do those things....evidence of their authority.
you're just playing.



and you're already in a lot of trouble.
end message.

If you are really going to be honest, you will have to admit that unbelief plays a role and always has. Can God save any soul unless that does not believe and trust in what Christ did on the cross? It is evidence in how we pray and many times we ask amiss according to James 4:3, and should that man think he should receive anything from the Lord? We like to add to our prayer for the sick things like, 'If it be thy will, heal this person of this affliction.' or ' if it's not thy will then teach them what you have for them in their sickness and time of need.' Wouldn't you say that there is some unbelief in those types of add ons? I do. Jesus was continually asking others 'Do you believe', 'What would you have me to do, do you believe.' He discouraged the woman from Canaan, who had brought her daughter greviously vexed with a devil in Matthew 15:22. But our Lord made some interesting statements that I do not think that we should ignore, especially in verse 28. He saw the faith of the mother and her daughter was made whole. Do we trust in the living God to do these things or do we have doctrinal issues that stop us from believing in the living God, who is immutable and changes not? Do we cry out for others or do they have to cry out for themselves? The womans' daughter was healed because of her faith in Christ, not the daughter's. Don't you think that is interesting as well as what took place in Mark 9:17-29? Perhaps some just don't want to believe God for the impossible or the supernatural, that could be the reason.

 

[Bookends]

Bookends: "My bible is full of characters who had epic "failures" in their lives, and they still made it in. Really? Like whom for instance??

Really? Just read your OT. Read the stories of Samson and Jephthah, also of David who are mentioned in the Hebrews hall of faith...There are many more I can add.

 

[Bookends]

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.[SUP]12 [/SUP]And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.

[SUP]43 [/SUP]I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive.


[SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ [SUP]23 [/SUP]And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

You Will Know Them by Their Fruits

[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. [SUP]16 [/SUP]You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? [SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. [SUP]18 [/SUP]A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

[SUP]24 [/SUP]For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


[SUP]29 [/SUP]Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”


[SUP]39 [/SUP]But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]He answered and said to them, “When it is evening you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is red’; [SUP]3 [/SUP]and in the morning, ‘It will be foul weather today, for the sky is red and threatening.’ Hypocrites! You know how to discern the face of the sky, but you cannot discern the signs of the times. [SUP]4 [/SUP]A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign shall be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.” And He left them and departed.

 

[doulos]

This church had nothing to show for their faith, they were neither cold (refreshing to those who where spirtual thristy) or hot (healing to those who were spiritual hurting) I think they were worst then a mediocre Church or Christian. They were very rich in money and material things and in that culture you had to belong and engage in a favorable way with the culture and the trade guilds to prosper. In order to do business you had to belong to a guild, in which you had to compromise your belief to participate, such as with prostitution, or saying Caesar is Lord, or engaging in unfair/ethical business practices. So I'm suggesting that some or most in this Church weren't saved at all. Therefore Christ urges them to be zealous for Him and repent, and overcome the temptation to compromise with the culture not allow the culture to change them, but to be change agents within the culture for good/Christ.

In other words the lukewarm church is of of moderate or low quality, value, ability, or performance. Doesn't that match the definition of mediocre?

Guess we will just have to agree to disagree. Have a blessed day brother and may God bless your studies!

 

[Bookends]

In other words the lukewarm church is of of moderate or low quality, value, ability, or performance. Doesn't that match the definition of mediocre?

Guess we will just have to agree to disagree. Have a blessed day brother and may God bless your studies!

lol, I'm saying that they had no quality, no value, no performance..Sure, we can agree to disagree. Jesus was still knocking on their door, wanting to come in and dine with them. God bless you as well brother. Live in peace.

 

[Angela53510]

"And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.”" Luke 10:27

"Judge not, that you be not judged. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? [SUP]5 [/SUP]You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye." Matt. 7:1-5

Perhaps the real answer is to look at our own hearts and lives, and see if we are following God with all our hearts, souls, mind and strength. I think if we do that, and then examine our own hearts to see if we are judging, and the result will be the kingdom of God will advance.

"And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.”" John 8:7

Rather than being Pharisees, and condemning others, who may be working harder on their Christian walk than we can imagine, because of the circumstances of their lives, their backgrounds, we should be shining examples, caring for others, and sharing the love of God.

Then we would not have to even worry about what the definition of a mediocre Christian is, because others would see the light of Christ in us, and they would be convicted and want to change, or turn away from God. The Spirit is a powerful witness in our lives!

 

[starfield]

I read of only one of the seven churches as being neither hot nor cold, Laodicea All of the others had some redeeming qualities..

They had some redeeming qualities but Jesus was also displeased with them on certain issues that they were told to repent, therefore they were on the path of mediocrity. Ephesus lost their excitement for Christ, their first love: Rev 2:4-5 - Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. Pergamos tolerated people in their midst who held to doctrine of Balaam and Nicolaitanesthus were told to repent as sin in the midst of the church (the body of Christ) grieves the Holy Spirit.

The church in Thyatira was commended for their good works, charity, faith, patience, and service but also scolded for allowing a seductress to preach in the church; perhaps church discipline would have been appropriate in that case. When someone in the church is in error, disciplinary procedures and shepherding needs to be implemented instead of allowing them to continue in their error thereby misleading and polluting the mind of others (i.e. new believers). Some churches tolerate all sorts of evil in their midst probably because they don't want to lose church members and money if people leave or hurt anyone's feelings, but that's certainly not what Jesus was doing. He told them to repent. There are people, pastors, elders that have actually been in church and heard the gospel for many years yet are still living hypocritical lives and trying to destroy unity in the body of Christ; such people need discipline to indicate that their behaviour dishonours God.

Although there were some in Sardis that hadn't defiled their spiritual garment, there were some that had thus were said to be spiritually dead (Rev 3:1) and their works were not perfect before God. Finally, Laodicea was plagued with lukewarmness which is a state that God dislikes. Therefore, loss of zeal for Christ, tolerating sin and compromising with it, and lukewarmness are some hallmarks of mediocrity in a church and in a believer's life.

Do you think is a direct correlation between mediocrity and being carnally minded? Perhaps they are close first cousins?

Absolutely. It could be a life that is not completely devoted to God for instance intimate relationship (communion) with God is no longer cherished, or one who is fixated on worldly things instead of the things above (Col 3:2). Such person needs to ask God for revival and grace to keep their spiritual temperature hot rather than cold or lukewarm for the Christian life should not be characterized by stagnancy, but growth.