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It is a poor example.
If we're going to use Abram as an example, then we have to go to war before we give a tenth. His tenth was given on war spoils, not on earnings/salary/wages.
Secondly, Abram didn't keep any of the spoils. People cherry-pick Scripture and note that Abram gave a tenth to Melchizedek. They fail to add that Abram didn't keep any of the spoils. Abram, then, gave 100% of his spoils of war.
But Abram said to the king of Sodom, “With raised hand I have sworn an oath to the Lord, God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth, that I will accept nothing belonging to you, not even a thread or the strap of a sandal, so that you will never be able to say, ‘I made Abram rich.’ I will accept nothing but what my men have eaten and the share that belongs to the men who went with me—to Aner, Eshkol and Mamre. Let them have their share.” -Gen 14:22-24
If we're going to use Abram as an example, then we have to go to war before we give a tenth. His tenth was given on war spoils, not on earnings/salary/wages.
Secondly, Abram didn't keep any of the spoils. People cherry-pick Scripture and note that Abram gave a tenth to Melchizedek. They fail to add that Abram didn't keep any of the spoils. Abram, then, gave 100% of his spoils of war.
But Abram said to the king of Sodom, “With raised hand I have sworn an oath to the Lord, God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth, that I will accept nothing belonging to you, not even a thread or the strap of a sandal, so that you will never be able to say, ‘I made Abram rich.’ I will accept nothing but what my men have eaten and the share that belongs to the men who went with me—to Aner, Eshkol and Mamre. Let them have their share.” -Gen 14:22-24
Hi,
What makes it a poor example? If Scripture is there to support the "tenth", as God said it then we should by all means believe it. It was written there by Moses by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, our idea seems to make it a poor idea.
What could be better if someone cherry pick scriptures while some cherry pick ideas and opinions. Let's face it Abram as you have said gave 100%, but the question is did he not give the 10%? You don't need to dwell on the problem by giving 100% since Abram and what the Bible says on the NT is that Abram paid tithes. If Abraham paid tithes what is that? Is that 20%, 30% or 100%? The NT says the tithe is the tenth. Actually, Aner , Eschol, and Mamre were no longer been quoted in the NT scripture or in the Hebrews giving rather more emphasis on Abraham and his tenth. So Abraham is still a very good example.
What makes it a poor example? If Scripture is there to support the "tenth", as God said it then we should by all means believe it. It was written there by Moses by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, our idea seems to make it a poor idea.
What could be better if someone cherry pick scriptures while some cherry pick ideas and opinions. Let's face it Abram as you have said gave 100%, but the question is did he not give the 10%? You don't need to dwell on the problem by giving 100% since Abram and what the Bible says on the NT is that Abram paid tithes. If Abraham paid tithes what is that? Is that 20%, 30% or 100%? The NT says the tithe is the tenth. Actually, Aner , Eschol, and Mamre were no longer been quoted in the NT scripture or in the Hebrews giving rather more emphasis on Abraham and his tenth. So Abraham is still a very good example.
Hi,
What makes it a poor example? If Scripture is there to support the "tenth", as God said it then we should by all means believe it. It was written there by Moses by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, our idea seems to make it a poor idea.
What could be better if someone cherry pick scriptures while some cherry pick ideas and opinions. Let's face it Abram as you have said gave 100%, but the question is did he not give the 10%? You don't need to dwell on the problem by giving 100% since Abram and what the Bible says on the NT is that Abram paid tithes. If Abraham paid tithes what is that? Is that 20%, 30% or 100%? The NT says the tithe is the tenth. Actually, Aner , Eschol, and Mamre were no longer been quoted in the NT scripture or in the Hebrews giving rather more emphasis on Abraham and his tenth. So Abraham is still a very good example.
What makes it a poor example? If Scripture is there to support the "tenth", as God said it then we should by all means believe it. It was written there by Moses by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, our idea seems to make it a poor idea.
What could be better if someone cherry pick scriptures while some cherry pick ideas and opinions. Let's face it Abram as you have said gave 100%, but the question is did he not give the 10%? You don't need to dwell on the problem by giving 100% since Abram and what the Bible says on the NT is that Abram paid tithes. If Abraham paid tithes what is that? Is that 20%, 30% or 100%? The NT says the tithe is the tenth. Actually, Aner , Eschol, and Mamre were no longer been quoted in the NT scripture or in the Hebrews giving rather more emphasis on Abraham and his tenth. So Abraham is still a very good example.
No one told him to do it.
It came from his heart.
It is an example to us.
That does not give a pastor the right to look down on his congregation and quote Malachi 3:10 and tell us we are robbing God.
People, I'm not afraid to tell it like it is.
In every New Testament book there are warnings of false teachers and antichrists all over the place. and it will only get worse.
Well, who are these people?
Can you name them?
Can you name what they are doing wrong to get these titles?
If they are increasing, then who are they and where are they?
In every New Testament book there are warnings of false teachers and antichrists all over the place. and it will only get worse.
Well, who are these people?
Can you name them?
Can you name what they are doing wrong to get these titles?
If they are increasing, then who are they and where are they?
Hi,
What makes it a poor example? If Scripture is there to support the "tenth", as God said it then we should by all means believe it. It was written there by Moses by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, our idea seems to make it a poor idea.
What could be better if someone cherry pick scriptures while some cherry pick ideas and opinions. Let's face it Abram as you have said gave 100%, but the question is did he not give the 10%? You don't need to dwell on the problem by giving 100% since Abram and what the Bible says on the NT is that Abram paid tithes. If Abraham paid tithes what is that? Is that 20%, 30% or 100%? The NT says the tithe is the tenth. Actually, Aner , Eschol, and Mamre were no longer been quoted in the NT scripture or in the Hebrews giving rather more emphasis on Abraham and his tenth. So Abraham is still a very good example.
What makes it a poor example? If Scripture is there to support the "tenth", as God said it then we should by all means believe it. It was written there by Moses by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, our idea seems to make it a poor idea.
What could be better if someone cherry pick scriptures while some cherry pick ideas and opinions. Let's face it Abram as you have said gave 100%, but the question is did he not give the 10%? You don't need to dwell on the problem by giving 100% since Abram and what the Bible says on the NT is that Abram paid tithes. If Abraham paid tithes what is that? Is that 20%, 30% or 100%? The NT says the tithe is the tenth. Actually, Aner , Eschol, and Mamre were no longer been quoted in the NT scripture or in the Hebrews giving rather more emphasis on Abraham and his tenth. So Abraham is still a very good example.
Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy are full of Laws that
are to be kept.
Are we required to keep those too?
Or is tithing the only one some are interested in promulgating?
Fran
Hi Fi2Luv
I found information on the three different types of tithes on the internet.
I'm going to post it here for those reading along who might be interested:
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
[h=3]What are the different types of tithes?[/h]
The topic of tithing is referenced dozens of times throughout the Word of God, often listed under words such as tithe, tithe, tithes, tithing, and a tenth. However, do all references in the Bible refer to the same type of tithe? Whenever you hear tithing referenced in a church, you could easily assume there is only one definition of the term tithe – ten percent of one’s income. In reality, there are several different types of tithes and applications thereof. The most commonly quoted tithe is the ordinance requiring the nation of Israel to give a tenth of everything from their land, herds and flocks to Levites as part of their inheritance, since they did not inherit any land and were responsible for part-time rotational duties in the temple. The Levites were also required to give a tenth of the best and holiest part of their tithes to the Aaronic priests. In addition to the inheritance tithe, the Old Testament also includes a yearly festival tithe and a triennial poor tithe. Likewise, there are passages about Old Testament patriarchs giving a tenth to a priest or God. Below you will find a breakdown for each of the three tithes. The other tithing references pertaining to the Old Testament patriarchs will be addressed in a separate article.
The Levitical tithe
required the nation of Israel to give, on a yearly basis, a tenth of everything from their land, herds and flocks to the Levites in the cities where they lived and worked around Israel, as part of their inheritance and their responsibility for temple duties in Jerusalem. Likewise, the Levites were required to give a tenth of the best and holiest part of their tithes to the Aaronic priests.
“The Lord said to Moses, ‘Speak to the Levites and say to them: When you receive from the Israelites the tithes I give you as your inheritance, you must present a tenth of that tithe as the Lord’s offering…From these tithes you must give the Lord’s portion to Aaron the priest. You must present as the Lord’s portion the best and holiest of everything given to you.’” (Numbers 18:25-26, 28-29 NIV)
“The Lord said to Moses, ‘Speak to the Israelites and say to them…A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the Lord…The entire tithe of the herd and flock – every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd’s rod – will be holy to the Lord.’” (Leviticus 27:1-2, 30, 32 NIV)
“And we will bring a tithe of our crops to the Levites, for it is the Levites who collect the tithes in all the towns where we work. A priest descended from Aaron is to accompany the Levites when they receive the tithes, and the Levites are to bring a tenth of their tithes up to the house of our God, to the storerooms of the treasury.” (Nehemiah 10:37-38 NIV)
The festival tithe
required the nation of Israel to bring, on a yearly basis, a tithe from their land, herds and flocks to the temple in Jerusalem, where everybody celebrated before the Lord as they ate portions of this tithe.
“These are the decrees and laws you must be careful to follow in the land that the Lord, the God of you fathers, has given you to possess – as long as you live in the land. …you are to seek the place the Lord you God will choose from among all your tribes to put his Name there for his dwelling. To that place you must go; there bring your burnt offering and sacrifices, your tithes and special gifts, what you have vowed to give and your freewill offerings, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks. There, in the presence of the Lord your God, you and your families shall eat and rejoice in everything you have put your hand to, because the Lord your God has blessed you.” (Deuteronomy 12:1, 5-7 NIV)
“Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year. Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the Lord your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the Lord your God always.” (Deuteronomy 14:22-23 NIV)
The poor tithe
required the nation of Israel to give, on a triennial basis (once every three years), a tithe of that year’s produce and store it within their cities, where the poor may come and eat and be satisfied.
“At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year’s produce and store it in your towns, so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your hands.” (Deuteronomy 14:28-29 NIV)
Overall, the same common theme applies to all three of the tithes – the tithe always derived from food grown or raised on the Israelites’ land, not money earned from any of their crafts or skills. However, the application of the Old Testament tithes served specifically different purposes. The tithe compensated for the lack of an inheritance and part-time rotational temple duties, supplied food for the yearly celebration before the Lord, and provided sustenance for the poor around the cities of Israel.
Posted by Depending on God at 10:41 AM
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It's interesting that it was the harvest of the land that was to be tithed and not income from work. This was due to the fact that the Levites were not given land and would have gone hungry. The same was true for the Poor Tithe.
(bold is mine).
I was thinking all day of some preachers on TV. Some own their own private jet. Cheflo (?) Dollar would be one of them.
Did Billy Graham own his own jet? I just ask if maybe things are getting out of hand. These Ministers-Preachers need to make a living - but should their life-style be so extravagant at the expense of persons who may be sacrificing themselves to give this tenth that is required by them?
And I do hear sermons specifically for the purpose of giving and they always do seem to be intended to make the congregants feel guilty. Do these preachers make these same congregants feel guilt about sin? No. I'm sorry to hear that I don't perceive the same passion in this regard.
I'm not saying guilt should be used for teaching sin.
But it shouldn't be used for asking for funds either!
It should be applied to all
or it should be applied to nothing.
Fran
I found information on the three different types of tithes on the internet.
I'm going to post it here for those reading along who might be interested:
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
[h=3]What are the different types of tithes?[/h]
The topic of tithing is referenced dozens of times throughout the Word of God, often listed under words such as tithe, tithe, tithes, tithing, and a tenth. However, do all references in the Bible refer to the same type of tithe? Whenever you hear tithing referenced in a church, you could easily assume there is only one definition of the term tithe – ten percent of one’s income. In reality, there are several different types of tithes and applications thereof. The most commonly quoted tithe is the ordinance requiring the nation of Israel to give a tenth of everything from their land, herds and flocks to Levites as part of their inheritance, since they did not inherit any land and were responsible for part-time rotational duties in the temple. The Levites were also required to give a tenth of the best and holiest part of their tithes to the Aaronic priests. In addition to the inheritance tithe, the Old Testament also includes a yearly festival tithe and a triennial poor tithe. Likewise, there are passages about Old Testament patriarchs giving a tenth to a priest or God. Below you will find a breakdown for each of the three tithes. The other tithing references pertaining to the Old Testament patriarchs will be addressed in a separate article.
The Levitical tithe
required the nation of Israel to give, on a yearly basis, a tenth of everything from their land, herds and flocks to the Levites in the cities where they lived and worked around Israel, as part of their inheritance and their responsibility for temple duties in Jerusalem. Likewise, the Levites were required to give a tenth of the best and holiest part of their tithes to the Aaronic priests.
“The Lord said to Moses, ‘Speak to the Levites and say to them: When you receive from the Israelites the tithes I give you as your inheritance, you must present a tenth of that tithe as the Lord’s offering…From these tithes you must give the Lord’s portion to Aaron the priest. You must present as the Lord’s portion the best and holiest of everything given to you.’” (Numbers 18:25-26, 28-29 NIV)
“The Lord said to Moses, ‘Speak to the Israelites and say to them…A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the Lord…The entire tithe of the herd and flock – every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd’s rod – will be holy to the Lord.’” (Leviticus 27:1-2, 30, 32 NIV)
“And we will bring a tithe of our crops to the Levites, for it is the Levites who collect the tithes in all the towns where we work. A priest descended from Aaron is to accompany the Levites when they receive the tithes, and the Levites are to bring a tenth of their tithes up to the house of our God, to the storerooms of the treasury.” (Nehemiah 10:37-38 NIV)
The festival tithe
required the nation of Israel to bring, on a yearly basis, a tithe from their land, herds and flocks to the temple in Jerusalem, where everybody celebrated before the Lord as they ate portions of this tithe.
“These are the decrees and laws you must be careful to follow in the land that the Lord, the God of you fathers, has given you to possess – as long as you live in the land. …you are to seek the place the Lord you God will choose from among all your tribes to put his Name there for his dwelling. To that place you must go; there bring your burnt offering and sacrifices, your tithes and special gifts, what you have vowed to give and your freewill offerings, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks. There, in the presence of the Lord your God, you and your families shall eat and rejoice in everything you have put your hand to, because the Lord your God has blessed you.” (Deuteronomy 12:1, 5-7 NIV)
“Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year. Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the Lord your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the Lord your God always.” (Deuteronomy 14:22-23 NIV)
The poor tithe
required the nation of Israel to give, on a triennial basis (once every three years), a tithe of that year’s produce and store it within their cities, where the poor may come and eat and be satisfied.
“At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year’s produce and store it in your towns, so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your hands.” (Deuteronomy 14:28-29 NIV)
Overall, the same common theme applies to all three of the tithes – the tithe always derived from food grown or raised on the Israelites’ land, not money earned from any of their crafts or skills. However, the application of the Old Testament tithes served specifically different purposes. The tithe compensated for the lack of an inheritance and part-time rotational temple duties, supplied food for the yearly celebration before the Lord, and provided sustenance for the poor around the cities of Israel.
Posted by Depending on God at 10:41 AM
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
It's interesting that it was the harvest of the land that was to be tithed and not income from work. This was due to the fact that the Levites were not given land and would have gone hungry. The same was true for the Poor Tithe.
(bold is mine).
I was thinking all day of some preachers on TV. Some own their own private jet. Cheflo (?) Dollar would be one of them.
Did Billy Graham own his own jet? I just ask if maybe things are getting out of hand. These Ministers-Preachers need to make a living - but should their life-style be so extravagant at the expense of persons who may be sacrificing themselves to give this tenth that is required by them?
And I do hear sermons specifically for the purpose of giving and they always do seem to be intended to make the congregants feel guilty. Do these preachers make these same congregants feel guilt about sin? No. I'm sorry to hear that I don't perceive the same passion in this regard.
I'm not saying guilt should be used for teaching sin.
But it shouldn't be used for asking for funds either!
It should be applied to all
or it should be applied to nothing.
Fran
Nop, not in every way a Christian is to follow the Mosaic Law specifically, the sacrifical Law which Christ already fulfilled that. Christ became the sacrificial lamb. Honoring God, respecting your parents to name a few are part of the original 10 Commandments and Paul said we need to follow. Obeying is quite easy for those who love Him
Nop, not in every way a Christian is to follow the Mosaic Law specifically, the sacrifical Law which Christ already fulfilled that. Christ became the sacrificial lamb. Honoring God, respecting your parents to name a few are part of the original 10 Commandments and Paul said we need to follow. Obeying is quite easy for those who love Him
The 10 Commandments are not the only written law in the Torah. There are 613 commandments which must be kept.
I ask again, are we to keep them? Are YOU keeping them?
Are we under the Mosaic or Old Covenant or are we under the New Covenant?
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Here's something from Into The Light Ministries which explains the O.C. and the N.C. very well:
Did tithing become part of the new covenant?
If so God decided to hide it from Paul and the other New Testament writer's. No matter how hard you try, you have to use Old Testament covenant to teach it. Some say tithing was before the law, part of the law and in force now also. Where is the New Testament Scripture for this? Circumcision was before the law (Genesis 17:24), part of the law, but is it in effect now? Some of the New Testament apostles tried to maintain it (Acts 15:5-11; Galatians 2:11) but Paul would have none of it. Hebrews talks about Abraham giving a tithe to Melchizedek but the same passage says there was a change in the law Hebrews 7:12. Hebrews 8:13 and 9:1 talks about the "first covenant with regulations (tithing is a regulation of the law) made obsolete (tithing was made obsolete)." Hebrews 10:9 "takes away first (tithing was part of the first) to establish second (tithing is not part of the second)" Hebrews 10:16 "writes law on heart and mind (God never wrote tithing on my heart or mind)"
The Melchizedek argument
Some have said that Melchizedek was Christ. So if Abraham gave Melchizedek a tithe then Jesus should receive tithes today. This is an interesting theory with no scriptural basis. The problem with this premise is that Jesus was not a man back then thus not Melchizedek and Jesus' ministry as a high priest, after the order of Melchizedek, is a heavenly one not an earthly one.
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Jesus said we are to keep the 10 Commandments.
He did not say we are to keep all the traditions passed down from the O.T.:
Mark 7:1-8
7 The Pharisees and some of the teachers of the law who had come from Jerusalem gathered around Jesus [SUP]2 [/SUP]and saw some of his disciples eating food with hands that were defiled, that is, unwashed. [SUP]3 [/SUP](The Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they give their hands a ceremonial washing, holding to the tradition of the elders. [SUP]4 [/SUP]When they come from the marketplace they do not eat unless they wash. And they observe many other traditions, such as the washing of cups, pitchers and kettles.[SUP][a][/SUP])
[SUP]5 [/SUP]So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, “Why don’t your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with defiled hands?”
[SUP]6 [/SUP]He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:
“‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules.’[SUP][b][/SUP]
[SUP]8 [/SUP]You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.”
Fran
Nop, not in every way a Christian is to follow the Mosaic Law specifically, the sacrifical Law which Christ already fulfilled that. Christ became the sacrificial lamb. Honoring God, respecting your parents to name a few are part of the original 10 Commandments and Paul said we need to follow. Obeying is quite easy for those who love Him
Alright, because some say that tithe is of the Law and doing the tenth means Mosaic Law and many of the opponents of the tithe circles on their argument. I think you need to qualify what law you are referring, I made 2 specific examples that I need to. BTW, I know that it is more that just 10 of the many commandments in the Bible. Now if you are meant to keep it in order to get my salvation, then NO. Christ did it for me.
God bless
God bless
You want me to qualify which Law I'm speaking of?
I'm speaking of the difference between the Old Covenant (Mosaic) and the New Covenant.
That's not A LAW, it's the difference between the LAW and GRACE.
You don't seem to get the point.
You can tithe or give all you want to - no one is trying to stop you Fredoheaven.
But we are not FORCED to tithe, if we are under the N.C., and the pastor cannot lord it over you.
Blessings.
I'm speaking of the difference between the Old Covenant (Mosaic) and the New Covenant.
That's not A LAW, it's the difference between the LAW and GRACE.
You don't seem to get the point.
You can tithe or give all you want to - no one is trying to stop you Fredoheaven.
But we are not FORCED to tithe, if we are under the N.C., and the pastor cannot lord it over you.
Blessings.
Hi,
What makes it a poor example? If Scripture is there to support the "tenth", as God said it then we should by all means believe it. It was written there by Moses by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, our idea seems to make it a poor idea.
What could be better if someone cherry pick scriptures while some cherry pick ideas and opinions. Let's face it Abram as you have said gave 100%, but the question is did he not give the 10%? You don't need to dwell on the problem by giving 100% since Abram and what the Bible says on the NT is that Abram paid tithes. If Abraham paid tithes what is that? Is that 20%, 30% or 100%? The NT says the tithe is the tenth. Actually, Aner , Eschol, and Mamre were no longer been quoted in the NT scripture or in the Hebrews giving rather more emphasis on Abraham and his tenth. So Abraham is still a very good example.
What makes it a poor example? If Scripture is there to support the "tenth", as God said it then we should by all means believe it. It was written there by Moses by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, our idea seems to make it a poor idea.
What could be better if someone cherry pick scriptures while some cherry pick ideas and opinions. Let's face it Abram as you have said gave 100%, but the question is did he not give the 10%? You don't need to dwell on the problem by giving 100% since Abram and what the Bible says on the NT is that Abram paid tithes. If Abraham paid tithes what is that? Is that 20%, 30% or 100%? The NT says the tithe is the tenth. Actually, Aner , Eschol, and Mamre were no longer been quoted in the NT scripture or in the Hebrews giving rather more emphasis on Abraham and his tenth. So Abraham is still a very good example.
If Scripture is there to support the "tenth", as God said it then we should by all means believe it. Scripture support is there for giving ALL. Furthermore, in this case, giving on war spoils.
It was written there by Moses by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, our idea seems to make it a poor idea. Moses was inspired to write that Abram went to war to save his nephew Lot. He won the war and gave back ALL the spoils, with a majority of it going to the King of Salem and a tenth going to Melchizedek.
What could be better if someone cherry pick scriptures while some cherry pick ideas and opinions. Just avoid cherry-picking whenever possible.
but the question is did he not give the 10%? You don't need to dwell on the problem by giving 100% There is no question of whether Abram gave 10% since, as I have repeated over and over and over, Abram gave 100%. It's tithing promoters who focus on the 10% and neglect that Abram gave 100% and that he gave 100% on war spoils rather than on occupational work.