Israel

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Philos

Guest
#61
The Rabbis of Israel continually teach that Jesus is worse than a false prophet, that he is practically dung, that He is no Messiah, that He is no prophet, that he is Belial. Yes they curse Him, so God don't receive them. My people are destroyed by lack of knowledge. That is very true concerning the people of Israel, as many of then receive the teachings of a dung Jesus by their rabbis without even knowing what the Gospels say, it's looked down on to even touch a NT there, much less read it, they do not welcome it.
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#62
The Rabbis of Israel continually teach that Jesus is worse than a false prophet, that he is practically dung, that He is no Messiah, that He is no prophet, that he is Belial. Yes they curse Him, so God don't receive them. My people are destroyed by lack of knowledge. That is very true concerning the people of Israel, as many of then receive the teachings of a dung Jesus by their rabbis without even knowing what the Gospels say, it's looked down on to even touch a NT there, much less read it, they do not welcome it.
The Jews don’t believe Jesus was the Son of God, as we do. I can’t imagine they dwell on it, though.
 
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Philos

Guest
#63
They need to though. That is the essence of His salvation, that we receive Jesus as the Son of God. It's the only way we can overcome, and we must overcome to inherit the things of God. They reject Jesus as the Christ, the Son of the living God, in doing so they reject God and the very Spirit that can draw them to Him. He who rejects me rejects Him who sent me. Who is Antichrist but he who denies that Jesus Christ is come in flesh? Even if you say they have the same God, the fact is they still gotta believe He came in flesh, and they don't. In fact their primary doctrine is God is not a man, nor can He be.
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#64
They need to though. That is the essence of His salvation, that we receive Jesus as the Son of God. It's the only way we can overcome, and we must overcome to inherit the things of God. They reject Jesus as the Christ, the Son of the living God, in doing so they reject God and the very Spirit that can draw them to Him. He who rejects me rejects Him who sent me. Who is Antichrist but he who denies that Jesus Christ is come in flesh? Even if you say they have the same God, the fact is they still gotta believe He came in flesh, and they don't. In fact their primary doctrine is God is not a man, nor can He be.
Jesus saves, and it is comforting to know that.

Still, I think the essence of our existence is that we learn to follow the two great commandments: to love the Lord our God with all our hearts, minds, and souls, and love our neighbors as ourselves.
 
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Philos

Guest
#65
How can you love God with your heart apart from the new heart He promised? How can you receive the new heart without receiving the Lord as He is? the Lord Jesus is the one who promised the new heart to us, He is the only baptizer of Spirit we have. You can love your god with all your heart, but if you don't have the Son, it's not the Father that you love, it's another.
 
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#66
How can you love God with your heart apart from the new heart He promised? How can you receive the new heart without receiving the Lord as He is? the Lord Jesus is the one who promised the new heart to us, He is the only baptizer of Spirit we have. You can love your god with all your heart, but if you don't have the Son, it's not the Father that you love, it's another.
Loving the Lord is just that—loving the Lord. He is inside us and we need to do our part in building a relationship with him. That means constant prayer, as Paul instructed us.
 
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Philos

Guest
#67
He's not inside everyone.
 

pickles

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2009
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#68
It is my wish that you are right, Pickles. There are too many prideful people who want to hate the Israelis or hate the Palestinians.
We need to always remeber, that Jesus suffered the cross for all man, not just the ones we approve of.
Salvation is not about deserving, but saving! :)

God bless
pickles
 
Oct 31, 2011
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#69
Christ will return, almost all Christians agree. We know that in the last days Jerusalem will be involved. I doubt that we know just how or when Christ will return. The return of the Hebrews to the Holy Land is involved with that prophecy in some way.

Genesis 12:2-3 - "I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."

Satan does not want the Jews to take over the Holy Land, Satan is using anyone to keep that from happening. It is part of his fight for supremacy.

I don’t think that the fact that most Jews are blinded to Christ’s first coming is going to stop prophecy, and again I don’t think anyone knows how this will be handled by God. Certainly we are not given the authority to handle it, our instructions are to not judge.
 
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Philos

Guest
#71
Then you're not in agreement with the apostles' doctrines.
 
E

edward99

Guest
#73
Christ will return, almost all Christians agree. We know that in the last days Jerusalem will be involved. I doubt that we know just how or when Christ will return. The return of the Hebrews to the Holy Land is involved with that prophecy in some way.

Genesis 12:2-3 - "I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."

Satan does not want the Jews to take over the Holy Land, Satan is using anyone to keep that from happening. It is part of his fight for supremacy.

I don’t think that the fact that most Jews are blinded to Christ’s first coming is going to stop prophecy, and again I don’t think anyone knows how this will be handled by God. Certainly we are not given the authority to handle it, our instructions are to not judge.
Uh...our authority is to preach the Good News to anyone who will receive it - jews or gentiles.
Do you actually believe unsaved jews are in a Covenant with God?
Which Covenant would that be?

As for the Chistian Zionist (a sect of Dispensationalism) distortion of the Genesis 12 text, can you just read this and see what it is saying?

Genesis 12
Abram Journeys to Egypt


1Now the LORD said to Abram,
“Go forth from your country,
And from your relatives
And from your father’s house,
To the land which I will show you;
2And I will make you a great nation,
And I will bless you,
And make your name great;
And so you shall be a blessing;

3And I will bless those who bless you,
And the one who curses you I will curse.
And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed.”

4So Abram went forth as the LORD had spoken to him; and Lot went with him. Now Abram was seventy-five years old when he departed from Haran....



Is God speaking to Abram?
Where did Abram come from? Was he a gentile?
Were there any jews with Abram when God said:


3And I will bless those who bless you,
And the one who curses you I will curse.

??

No, verse 3 was to and for and about Abram. OK?
Good so far?

So, Genesis 12:3 isn't about modern day Israel, is it. No.
OK.

So what was God referring to when he said to Abram:

"And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed.”?

a) Abram would bless all the families of the earth
b) eventually the world would be blessed by the modern state of Israel
b) the reference was to Jesus

Now read this chapter:


Galatians 3
Faith Brings Righteousness

1You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? 2This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 3Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

6Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. 7Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU.” 9So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.

10For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM.” 11Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.” 12However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM.” 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE”— 14in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Intent of the Law

15Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is only a man’s covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it. 16Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ. 17What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise. 18For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.

19Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made. 20Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one. 21Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law. 22But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

23But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.



And then this:


Galatians 4
Sonship in Christ

1Now I say, as long as the heir is a child, he does not differ at all from a slave although he is owner of everything, 2but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by the father. 3So also we, while we were children, were held in bondage under the elemental things of the world. 4But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. 6Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” 7Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.

8However at that time, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are no gods. 9But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? 10You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.

12I beg of you, brethren, become as I am, for I also have become as you are. You have done me no wrong; 13but you know that it was because of a bodily illness that I preached the gospel to you the first time; 14and that which was a trial to you in my bodily condition you did not despise or loathe, but you received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus Himself. 15Where then is that sense of blessing you had? For I bear you witness that, if possible, you would have plucked out your eyes and given them to me. 16So have I become your enemy by telling you the truth? 17They eagerly seek you, not commendably, but they wish to shut you out so that you will seek them. 18But it is good always to be eagerly sought in a commendable manner, and not only when I am present with you. 19My children, with whom I am again in labor until Christ is formed in you— 20but I could wish to be present with you now and to change my tone, for I am perplexed about you.

Bond and Free

21Tell me, you who want to be under law, do you not listen to the law? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman. 23But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise. 24This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar. 25Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother.

27For it is written,
“REJOICE, BARREN WOMAN WHO DOES NOT BEAR;
BREAK FORTH AND SHOUT, YOU WHO ARE NOT IN LABOR;
FOR MORE NUMEROUS ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE DESOLATE
THAN OF THE ONE WHO HAS A HUSBAND.”

28And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also.

30But what does the Scripture say?
“CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON,
FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN.”

31So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.


Genesis 12:2-3 - "I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."

See?
 
Oct 31, 2011
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#75
Edward: Do you really think that God gave you, personally, authority to judge the Jews? He says that He didn’t. You would have to be God to take that on yourself, and you are not God. You know of the many, many scriptures telling us not to judge.

Most of the Jews think we have created a false God when we say it is Christ’s blood that saves us, the Christ who was crucified. I am sure they are wrong. But I also know that scripture tells us you are wrong in all the conclusions you have come to based on knowing this about them. It is none of your business, it is the business of our Lord, and He can be trusted to take care of it. What God is doing about it you and I can only guess, and best we keep out of it.

If what you are saying means you don't want the Jews to return to Israel, This is God's plan. Satin does not want God's plan to be successful. It is dangerous to take the side of Satan.

When God gave us the example of Sarah and Hagar it was to explain that men made plans, as the planning for Hagar to have a child were men made fleshly plans, we are to rely on God. Sarah’s child was from God’s promises.

Romans 11:25 :25 So that you will not be conceited, brothers, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery: A partial hardening has come to Israel until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
The Liberator will come from Zion;
He will turn away godlessness from Jacob.
27 And this will be My covenant with them(
when I take away their sins.
 
D

DownUnder

Guest
#76
The History of Israel - A Chronological Presentation - Introduction

Expolore this site, it gives it all from beginning to modern times.

When the Romans destroyed the Temple, and exiled many of the Jews, the Emperor changed the name from Israel/Judah, to 'filista', it then became 'philista'. Israel then came under the Ottoman Turks later, and then under the Brittish Mandate, they called it Palestine. But God called it ISRAEL!

God does not break His Word. HE gave them the land & His Word stands. Prophecy said Israel would rise again so the return of the State of Israel is prophecy fulfilled. The airlift of the Ethiopian Jews is prophecy fulfilled, even to them having to be 'ransomed'!

Read Revelation, God will deliver Israel from her enemies. There never really was a 'Palestine', nor 'Palestinians'. The Arabs cannot abide that the State of Israel exists, they want it destroyed, and the Jews with it,

Revelation gives you your answers.
 
T

texian

Guest
#77



"As for the Chistian Zionist (a sect of Dispensationalism) distortion of the Genesis 12 text, can you just read this and see what it is saying?"

The John Hagee group, Christians For Israel (CUFI), might be consoidered a more extremist Christian Zionist part of larger dispensationalism. But insofar as all dispensationalism postulates that God has two different peoples, physical israel, or the Jews, and the church, and that physical Israel or All Israel remain now God's chosen people, then all of dispensationalism is Christian Zionism.

Christian Zionism: Its History, Theology and Politics, by Stephen
SIZER, (AAARGH Internet Editions, 2005) is about the theology of dispensationalism
and its history in John Darby and C.I. Scofield. Its not focused upon a more
extremist John Hagee form of dispensationalism.

Christian Zionism is a more accurate name for what has been called dispensationalism because the name dispensationalism emphasizes the different dispensations of God's people rather than the central concern of this theology, an honoring of all Israel, which under their literalist view must always be physical Israel and never the spiritual house I Peter 2: 5 talks about.