"It is finished." What is the "it?"

[kennethcadwell]

no, I did not lie. because you said you must be following the spirit. thus you state as long as you do that you are worthy.

don;t deny it, it is still you doing something.


if one is born of God the spirit will change them. thats the part you can not comrehend.

You claim one can be saved, and God will not change them, causing them to fall away.

not in the word. God does not fail.

Because the bible shows that in the life of one who is born again.
We are unworthy to receive His grace, but once we receive it and born again the bible shows we are to walk with confidence and not question ourselves and our worthiness to God. We are to show it by the fruits of the Spirit, and the Spirit will not go around questioning His own motives and lead people in doubts. Thinking one is still unworthy after they have received the truth and acknowledged it is still living in doubt.
And your second part is wrong as that is all I keep speaking on is the change one shows after they have been born again.
I never said a person will not change by the guidance of the Holy Spirit, but the bible makes it clear that some will reject/deny that guidance; Hince blasphemy of the Holy Spirit...

I never said God fails as that is you who keeps putting misguided blame in the wrong direction, as God never fails but people do fail, and if a person walks away from God they do it to themselves. Stop reversing the blame and start realizing that people can turn their back on God as Jesus, Holy Spirit, Paul, James, and Jude all said.....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Because the bible shows that in the life of one who is born again.
We are unworthy to receive His grace, but once we receive it and born again the bible shows we are to walk with confidence and not question ourselves and our worthiness to God. We are to show it by the fruits of the Spirit, and the Spirit will not go around questioning His own motives and lead people in doubts. Thinking one is still unworthy after they have received the truth and acknowledged it is still living in doubt.

The bible says his children WILL DO THIS, not that they must. (that is what proves who his true children are, and who are not his true children but impostors. )

When you add the word MUST, then you are placing your faith in your own ability to do it and Not God.

Your placing a condition on Grace, thus nullifying grace. period!

And your second part is wrong as that is all I keep speaking on is the change one shows after they have been born again.
I never said a person will not change by the guidance of the Holy Spirit, but the bible makes it clear that some will reject/deny that guidance; Hince blasphemy of the Holy Spirit...

I never said God fails as that is you who keeps putting misguided blame in the wrong direction, as God never fails but people do fail, and if a person walks away from God they do it to themselves. Stop reversing the blame and start realizing that people can turn their back on God as Jesus, Holy Spirit, Paul, James, and Jude all said.....

Yes you do say God fails. Or you would believe in eternal security, And know that he who has begun a good work in us, will continue until the day of Christ to keep on perfecting is.

You deny that, and claim we can fall away, and lose it meaning God is powerless in his childrens lives.

 

[michael56]

Yes the reason why Jesus said, "My God, My God why have you forsaken ME," was not because He was spiritually dead or the Holy Spirit left Him.
The reason He said that was to show His sympathy for what we go through and how some when they have hit rock bottom in life think that God has left them to suffer instead of protecting them. This is mentioned in Hebrews 4:15.....

That is an apalling interpretation of why Jesus stated those words

 

[kennethcadwell]

The bible says his children WILL DO THIS, not that they must. (that is what proves who his true children are, and who are not his true children but impostors. )

When you add the word MUST, then you are placing your faith in your own ability to do it and Not God.

Your placing a condition on Grace, thus nullifying grace. period!



Yes you do say God fails. Or you would believe in eternal security, And know that he who has begun a good work in us, will continue until the day of Christ to keep on perfecting is.

You deny that, and claim we can fall away, and lose it meaning God is powerless in his childrens lives.

I think you need to go read again because there is a couple of times the scriptures say must in them.
Here is one of them from Paul;

Colossians 3:13
bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.

And no I do not nullify grace as you say, as I confirm it by obedience to give His teachings and do not tell people they have salvation even and do not have to follow His teachings. The Lord says those who believe in Him and love Him keep and obey His teachings and commands. You tell others they don't have to, or can't keep them which is in direct contradiction to scripture. You call others false teachers and constantly say they say stuff they never did. You spread lies and contradiction, and then blame others for speaking His word because it contradicts your philosophy. What do you not get or understand in scripture when it says to the one who believes all things are possible? You keep wanting to teach a limitations gospel by telling people even born again Christians can not live up to God's standards. That would be then saying the Holy Spirit does not live up to God's standards, or work in a person to do such. Apostle Paul says, " I can, " do all things through Christ. You say we can not still.................

 

[kennethcadwell]

That is an apalling interpretation of why Jesus stated those words

That is truth from the scriptures, as the bible clearly says in Hebrews 4 that He came in the flesh and suffered to show His sympathy for what we go through on earth. If you feel it is apalling then you contradict scripture and do not realize how people in the world react. I have seen a number of people in my life time who feel that God has rejected them, left them, and no longer helps them do to hardships, troubles, deaths, and so on that effects their life.
Lord Jesus went through and took the punishment for our sins and suffered for us to show He knows the kind of suffering we go through, and how we feel at times. We have a high priest in Jesus who knows what we go through and how we feel because He came in the flesh and suffered with us.

Maybe you have never hit rock bottom in your life to understand this, but people do have and go through doubts in their life when they are down.

 

[1joseph]

Originally Posted by kennethcadwell

Yes the reason why Jesus said, "My God, My God why have you forsaken ME," was not because He was spiritually dead or the Holy Spirit left Him.
The reason He said that was to show His sympathy for what we go through and how some when they have hit rock bottom in life think that God has left them to suffer instead of protecting them. This is mentioned in Hebrews 4:15.....

That is an apalling interpretation of why Jesus stated those words

I totally agree with you michael56; it is appalling!

That would mean Jesus did not actually take on our sins. Appalling! Of course he took on all mankind's sins.

This caused the earth and the heavens to respond as they did and the tombs of many wise men brake open and their bodies rising, having took on life, as Christ's did, and walked among the living. Hallelujah!

This was all the repercussions of what was going on during the greatest deed mankind will ever know.

"Thank you Father, for making this sacrifice, and giving it freely to any who will believe."

 

[dcontroversal]

That is an apalling interpretation of why Jesus stated those words

I would agree...the context is clear....He who knew no sin took our sin upon himself on the tree and the word forsaken is clear.......

 

[kennethcadwell]

I totally agree with you michael56; it is appalling!

That would mean Jesus did not actually take on our sins. Appalling! Of course he took on all mankind's sins.

This caused the earth and the heavens to respond as they did and the tombs of many wise men brake open and their bodies rising, having took on life, as Christ's did, and walked among the living. Hallelujah!

This was all the repercussions of what was going on during the greatest deed mankind will ever know.

"Thank you Father, for making this sacrifice, and giving it freely to any who will believe."

That of what I said says nothing of the sort.
Why do some of you constantly read more into what a person wrote, as I never said such a thing that He did not take on our sins. He showed His sympathy for us as Hebrews 4:15 clearly says, He went through and faced all the same temptations and troubles we go through in life. And people who have hit rock bottom or had other bad issues happen in their life have questioned God, and even gone as far as asking why God has forsaken them. Why did God let this happen in other words is what they say.
Even Jesus when in the garden pleaded with God to let this task He was sent for to pass away from Him, but then said if it be Your will though He will do it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think you need to go read again because there is a couple of times the scriptures say must in them.
Here is one of them from Paul;

Colossians 3:13
bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.

And no I do not nullify grace as you say, as I confirm it by obedience to give His teachings and do not tell people they have salvation even and do not have to follow His teachings. The Lord says those who believe in Him and love Him keep and obey His teachings and commands. You tell others they don't have to, or can't keep them which is in direct contradiction to scripture. You call others false teachers and constantly say they say stuff they never did. You spread lies and contradiction, and then blame others for speaking His word because it contradicts your philosophy. What do you not get or understand in scripture when it says to the one who believes all things are possible? You keep wanting to teach a limitations gospel by telling people even born again Christians can not live up to God's standards. That would be then saying the Holy Spirit does not live up to God's standards, or work in a person to do such. Apostle Paul says, " I can, " do all things through Christ. You say we can not still.................

No, Your the one that says we can not.

I can and will do all things in Christ, As will all his children. that is why God will never leave nor forsake us. As HE promised.

your still depending on yourself. and throwing the name of Christ in it. That is the defenition of legalism.

as far as col 3. the word must was added, it is not in the original greek. (thats why it is italicized) Nice try, but no cigar.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is truth from the scriptures, as the bible clearly says in Hebrews 4 that He came in the flesh and suffered to show His sympathy for what we go through on earth. If you feel it is apalling then you contradict scripture and do not realize how people in the world react. I have seen a number of people in my life time who feel that God has rejected them, left them, and no longer helps them do to hardships, troubles, deaths, and so on that effects their life.
Lord Jesus went through and took the punishment for our sins and suffered for us to show He knows the kind of suffering we go through, and how we feel at times. We have a high priest in Jesus who knows what we go through and how we feel because He came in the flesh and suffered with us.

Maybe you have never hit rock bottom in your life to understand this, but people do have and go through doubts in their life when they are down.

Heb 4 spoke of his sufferings.

not the cross. He did not suffer on the cross so he could know what we went through. where do you come up with this stuff.

I agree with what he said, it is appalling to God to say thats why he cried out.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Matthew 26:39
And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Psalm 22:1
My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?


Lord Jesus was saying the same utterance that David said in his Psalm prayer, as He was showing the same feelings that we have when we are in hard situations. Showing He sympathizes with us !!!

 

[kennethcadwell]

No, Your the one that says we can not.

I can and will do all things in Christ, As will all his children. that is why God will never leave nor forsake us. As HE promised.

your still depending on yourself. and throwing the name of Christ in it. That is the defenition of legalism.

as far as col 3. the word must was added, it is not in the original greek. (thats why it is italicized) Nice try, but no cigar.

More twists and lies, come on now E.G...................

 

[Jeshuvan]

The it means the ministry or work,some even call it the suffering,Jesus was sent to do.


Jesus was sent

 

[1joseph]

"When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost." -John 19:30

My hubby and I were discussing this Scripture last night, and we are in agreement (although we come to it in different ways) that the "it" is the debt that Jesus paid for us all -- the fulfillment of the Law.

So what say you? How would you describe the "it?"

To me, "it" is: The way.

The way was now made for any who believe "it" to live in the Spirit and with the assured hope of eternal life in God's kingdom.

"It (the way) is finished."

 

[MarcR]

Yes the reason why Jesus said, "My God, My God why have you forsaken ME," was not because He was spiritually dead or the Holy Spirit left Him.
The reason He said that was to show His sympathy for what we go through and how some when they have hit rock bottom in life think that God has left them to suffer instead of protecting them. This is mentioned in Hebrews 4:15.....

The reason why Jesus said, "My God, My God why have you forsaken ME is that in quoting Psa 22:1, He was by inference citing the entire Psalm to explain what was happening.

 

[kennethcadwell]

The reason why Jesus said, "My God, My God why have you forsaken ME is that in quoting Psa 22:1, He was by inference citing the entire Psalm to explain what was happening.

Yes I mentioned that between the last few posts, and in 311 I showed how He was uttering Psalm 22.
For He was showing as David did in that Psalm how people feel when in those situations, and how at times of hardships they feel like God has forsaken/deserted them in their time of need. No matter what hardships we go through if we put those cares on Him He will deliver us out of them. It may not be the way we want, but He will do it as His will sees fit on what to do. Which shows His sympathy for us, just like in His prayer in the garden to have the will of God that was placed on Him to pass from Him. He said but let His will be done never the less.........

 

[MarcR]

Yes I mentioned that between the last few posts, and in 311 I showed how He was uttering Psalm 22.
For He was showing as David did in that Psalm how people feel when in those situations, and how at times of hardships they feel like God has forsaken/deserted them in their time of need. No matter what hardships we go through if we put those cares on Him He will deliver us out of them. It may not be the way we want, but He will do it as His will sees fit on what to do. Which shows His sympathy for us, just like in His prayer in the garden to have the will of God that was placed on Him to pass from Him. He said but let His will be done never the less.........

When I read Psa 22, I see a picture of the crucifixion; NOT peoples response to adversity!

 

[kennethcadwell]

When I read Psa 22, I see a picture of the crucifixion; NOT peoples response to adversity!

It is both as the bible clearly shows that while He was in the flesh, Jesus was tempted every way we are without sinning and showed us sympathy by going through the things we do. He knows how we feel in our situations, and therefore made the quotes as such since He felt the same afflictions in the flesh that we do.
Like I said look at His statement in the garden, as He asked for the burden to take on all of our sins to pass away from Him. He was sympathizing with how hard of a burden it is, yet because it was God's will He did it anyway....

 

[MarcR]

Your saying it is both does NOT make it so!

If you want to convince anyone, do a verse by verse analysis and show where you think you are getting that from.

Enough of us here read Hebrew to keep you accurate.

 

[tribesman]

and i answered the question, i am not gonna fall fir a trap, just answer scripturally

How can a straight Q abt your beliefs be a trap? Anyways, you do believe that Jesus was born again when He was "restored" in His relation to the Father and you do believe that He died spiritually before that (yet He did not become a sinner - however you can make those beliefs reconcile or work together) just like Adam died. I'd say your pretty JDS teaching as per their school book. Just that some of them believes that Jesus suffered for a time in hell and some even say that He got born again there. Wow. How people can believe in any of the above is beyond me. But, hey, it's big wide world...