It is FINISHED.

BroTan · Apr 25, 2022

After the death of Jesus the apostles still kept the Commandments of God including the Sabbath day. Paul understood this he knew and kept Gods law including the seventh day sabbath. Now lets take a look at; (Acts 13:13-15, 42, 44) (v.13) Now when Paul and his company loosed from Pa’-phus, they came to Per’-ga in Pam-phyl’-I-a: and John departing from them returned to Jerusalem. (v.14) But when they departed from Per’-ga, they came to An’-ti-och in Pi-sid’-I-a, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down. Paul went into the church (synagogue) on the sabbath day the seventh day not the first day (Sunday). (v.15) And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on. (v.42) And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Nevertheless, in judgment each one of us will give account for our own salvation. Therefore, we must not let anyone lead us down the wrong path, but should verify all of our teaching with the holy bible. YOUR SALVATION IS AT STAKE! Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12).

BroTan · Apr 25, 2022

Lafftur said:

Jesus says in Matthew 5: 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

All is not fulfilled by the prophets, but if you are a new testament christians then you are missing a lot of prophecy coming down the pipes in the near future. So these laws (Commandments) are still on the table.

Let's look at an example....Let's go to Isaiah 11:2, And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord.

Matthew 3:16, And Jesus, when he was baptized, went straightway out the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him.

Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

Notice Jesus didn’t mention that last piece in Isaiah 61:2 and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; because this referrers to Jesus second coming. This part has not been fulfilled yet.

Lafftur · Jun 29, 2022

BroTan said:

Jesus says in Matthew 5: 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

All is not fulfilled by the prophets, but if you are a new testament christians then you are missing a lot of prophecy coming down the pipes in the near future. So these laws (Commandments) are still on the table.

Let's look at an example....Let's go to Isaiah 11:2, And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord.

Matthew 3:16, And Jesus, when he was baptized, went straightway out the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him.

Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

Notice Jesus didn’t mention that last piece in Isaiah 61:2 and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; because this referrers to Jesus second coming. This part has not been fulfilled yet.

Jesus Christ fulfilled ALL that Moses and the Prophets wrote about concerning the Messiah - The Christ - The One that would come.

Jesus Christ as the Messiah was to fulfill ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS which includes the law of Moses for us; He did it! Hallelujah!

I agree, there are still prophecies concerning Jesus' return as King of Kings and Lord of Lords to rule and reign on the Earth for a thousand years that have not yet been fulfilled but, they will.

Pilgrimshope · Jun 29, 2022

Lafftur said:

“Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.

Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭4:4-5‬

“And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; and to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; and to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: for so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭1:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The message of complacency and us judging our own salvation ahead of time isn’t leading people towards Jesus who will judge us each according to our works

we should trust I. Jesus fully for salvstion I agree , but this means we need to accept his teachkngs about how to be saved and also warnings about how one is lost

for us to say we can’t be lost and are already saved takes Christ off his throne of judgement he died to inhabit and nullifies all the new testament warnings about losing inheritance in the kingdom

co wider what Paul is saying he didn’t judge his own self even though he was t aware of any sin he was corruptly guilty of he refused to say he was justified because his judge is Jesus and will handle that part

we’re meant to be walking in Christ this means walking within the system of righteousness the gospel sets forth if we dwell on the darkness it doesn’t matter how many times we claim we’re saved it’s not going to save us we have to let Jesus do it his way and wait upon his judgements

Pilgrimshope · Jun 29, 2022

Lafftur said:

“When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.”
‭‭John‬ ‭19:30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus is saying his suffering is finished he had completely fulfilled his suffering wrotten on the prophets notice how they gave him vinegar there just before he said that ?

Jesus was fulfilling prophecy

“They gave me also gall for my meat; And in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭69:21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that was the last part of his prophetic suffering he knew he had to endure

“But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭12:50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he was apprehensive about his coming suffering and pain and was stressed until it was finished. When it was finished he said it just as they had fulfilled that final word of prophecy in the psalms regarding his suffering for sin it was now finished

there’s nothing left for Jesus to do now for us now it’s about how we will receive and react to what he’s done

“For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭21:22‬ ‭

“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:17-18‬ ‭

“But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭12:50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.”
‭‭John‬ ‭19:30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus had finished his trial and now he explains it

“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:44-48‬ ‭

the gospel of Jesus Christ was now finished his suffering and shame was finished and he entered his glory after leaving the gospel with his believers past preeent and future

there is a whole new life to accept and start living alot for us to do the judgement of one’s eternal soul is in two hands alone that are scarred fro. The nails of the cross he will judge and save his people but there’s a lot for us to learn and do and walk in and follow d if we don’t we’re well warned of the consequences

our role isn’t finished yet we have a life to live for him who died for us

ForestGreenCook · Jun 29, 2022

Lafftur said:

Salvation is PAID IN FULL. There is NOTHING left to do for Salvation except…..BELIEVE.

The Blood of Jesus Christ takes away our sin and His Body is the Human Fulfillment of the Law that we were required to obey and fulfill….IN CHRIST, “It is finished.”

We know Sin and Death entered through Adam and Eve’s rebellion to God’s Will for them.

Salvation entered through Christ the Anointed and only begotten Son of God - His obedience to God’s Will for Him and All that will….believe in Him shall be born again in Christ and live.

God seals every Believer with His Holy Spirit and we begin our journey as God’s Child…we are learning but NEVER are we not God’s Child…we are FOREVER SAVED and FOREVER HIS, amen.

DO NOT DOUBT YOUR SALVATION ANY LONGER…you are loved, you are saved in Christ ALONE…..enjoy your journey!

How do you think that the natural man described in 1 Cor 2:14 can believe in spiritual things?

FreeGrace2 · Jun 29, 2022

ForestGreenCook said:

To be clear, the gospel message isn't a "spiritual thing". It is about trust in what God's Son did for you. The "spiritual things" of 1 Cor 2:14 refers to the "deep things of God" (v.10) and doctrines for the "mature" (v.6).

Anyone is able to understand the gospel. And choose to either believe it or not.

ForestGreenCook · Jun 30, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:

Give me a scripture example of the deep things of God.

1 Cor 2:6 - "perfect" means "of full age". Isaiah 28:9-10 - Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breast. (These are new spiritually born babes in Christ and cannot digest the "deep things" of God, that are reserved for the christians that are mature.) For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, and there a little.

I do not understand how that you can denounce that the gospel is not a spiritual thing. All scripture is given by the inspiration of God.
New born babes in Christ can understand the basic truths of the gospel, unlike the un-regenerant person explained in 1 Cor 2:14 that cannot discern even the basic spiritual truths and thinks them to be foolishness. The spiritual food fed to the babes in Christ and also to the full grown are revealed to them by the revelation of the Holy Spirit that dwells within them.

The un-regenerant can be born again with the new spiritual birth, but not because he understands the spiritual things he hears and thinks of them as foolishness, but while he is "yet dead in his sins" God by his sovereign grace quickens him to a new spiritual life (Eph 2:1-5).

FreeGrace2 · Jun 30, 2022

ForestGreenCook said:

I already mentioned 2 verses in the context of "the deep things of God" from v.14.

v.6 - We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.

Paul is referring to advanced doctrines, which the spiritually mature will understand.

10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.

There is no reason to assume these "deep things of God" include the gospel itself. Many unbelievers can clearly explain the gospel message, all the while not believing it.

It means "mature". In this verse, it means spiritually mature.

Thanks for making my point!

"denounce"??? Huh? I haven't done any such thing. You seem to have quite an imagination. The gospel promise is about trust.

How spiritual is trust? Can you explain and defend your opinion?

Amen.

You are sadly mistaken. Unbelievers DO demonstrate clear knowledge of the gospel even though they don't believe it.

Sadly, many pastors fail to understand v.14 and teach their congregations in error.

True, and this doesn't support your opinion.

Calvinist talking point. Nonsense.

An unsaved person can hear the gospel, understand the promise, and believe it from his heart, because the Bible says that man believes from his heart. Rom 10:10. So we don't need Calvinist talking points to explain 1 Cor2:14.

When an unsaved person believes from his heart, God regenerates him (makes him alive) and justifies him.

Do you believe that an unsaved person must first be born again (regenerated) so he CAN believe the gospel?

ForestGreenCook · Jun 30, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:

Your thanks is a result of a misunderstanding of Isaiah 28:9-10. The un-regenerant man described in 1 Cor 2:14 is not a newborn babe in Christ and cannot even discern the basic spiritual things of the gospel. If a person is in Christ and Christ in him, he has already been born again.

FreeGrace2 said:

Most of those that have been born again do not believe the doctrine that Jesus taught by trying to take some of the glory themselves for their eternal inheritance. The doctrine that Jesus taught gives God all of the glory (Daniel 4:35).

In your post #67, your statement is that the gospel message is "not a spiritual thing".

FreeGrace2 said:

My opinion was that the babes in Christ (if in Christ they are born again) are fed spiritual food by the revelation of the Holy Spirit that dwells within them, unlike the un-regenerant man described in 1 Cor 2:14, who thinks spiritual food is foolishness.

FreeGrace2 said:

Romans 10:1 God changed Jacob's name to be called no more Jacob, but to be called Israel, Gen 33:28. Israel in verse 1 has reference to Jacob/Israel, which represents God's elect (Romans 9:11) which is evidenced by them having a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. romans 10:10 is further evidences that they have been born again and given a fleshy heart instead of their old heart of stone (Ezk 11:19).

FreeGrace2 said:

This statement contradicts other scriptures, such as, Ezk 19-20. The heart of flesh that was given in regeneration is the only heart that can believe in the things of the Spirit.

FreeGrace2 said:

I just answered that question.

BroTan · Jun 30, 2022

Lafftur said:

Just to make it clear, the law that Jesus fulfill was the law of animal sacrifice, not the royal law (ten Commandments). Paul explained this in; (Hebrews 10: (v.1) For the law (what law, the law of animal sacrifice?) having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. (v.9) Then said he, (Jesus) Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first that he may establish the second. (v.10) By which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 but this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 from henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

The point that is not understand is that we all have sin, but until Jesus came, there was no way of getting out from under your sins. So God institute a Priesthood and laws that went with the priesthood to control the sinning, and so the Lord use animal Sacrificial laws, even though it could not remove sins.

When Jesus died on the cross that was the end of the first covenant, which consisted of the blood of animals and the keeping of God’s commandments. And his death also brought in the second covenant, which consist of the blood of Jesus and the keeping of God’s commandments. (v.18) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. In other words, no more animals are going to die for your sins. (20) by a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; (21) and having an high priest over the house of God; (v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.

Now do we understand what’s being said here? If you sin willfully after you have knowledge of what the truth is, no more animals are going to die for you. (v.27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Now if you are being deceived into believing that once you are under God’s grace you no longer have to keep his commandments, all you have to look forward to is the day of judgement and the lake of fire (fiery indignation).

Lafftur · Jul 1, 2022

BroTan said:

You have not correctly understood the Law of Grace which is the Blood AND Body of Jesus Christ- The Lamb of God - Blood AND Body.

God’s Mercy triumphs over His Judgment when He sees the Blood of the Lamb which takes our sin away but His Blood does NOT give us His Righteousness… His Body gives us the Righteousness of God which is the human fulfillment of ALL that God required of us - ALL of the Law of Moses INCLUDING the Ten Commandments.

Jesus Christ fulfilled ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS including the Ten Commandments for us… The Lord Our Righteousness.

It’s NOT about works anymore, our focus needs to be on LOVE.

God has opened the door to Him, He has torn the veil…. He’s not looking at our works… He has fulfilled all the works for salvation. He’s looking at our hearts if they are seeking to know Him and to love Him… I looooooove Him! He is worthy of all my love!

Those that give Him all their love, He will reveal Himself to them and they will know Him and experience His Love for them. He gives them His Holy Spirit which fills us and empower us to do good works, not for salvation but for the Kingdom of God.

We do NOT fear judgment nor the fiery lake of fire. Hallelujah!

Lafftur · Jul 1, 2022

ForestGreenCook said:

Well, let’s look at the scripture…

The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
1 Corinthians 2:14 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Corinthians 2:14&version=NIV

We know that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God…

So, when the Word of God is spoken, the Holy Spirit of God is also present and can give life to those that can hear the understanding of the Word of God that the Holy Spirit is saying.

It is pride that renders the natural man deaf to the Holy Spirit. However, when a natural man humbles himself, then he can hear what the Holy Spirit is saying and be amazed at his own foolishness and the great wisdom of God.

Magenta · Jul 1, 2022

ForestGreenCook said:

1 Timothy 3:16

FreeGrace2 · Jul 1, 2022

ForestGreenCook said:

Please tell me what is "spiritual" in the gospel message. The message is one about trusting in what Christ did for you. Doctrines about being in fellowship with the Lord and being filled with the Spirit ARE spiritual things. Not the gospel.

As I've said, unbelievers can and do understand the gospel, even though you seem ignorant about that fact.

Of course.

So what's your point? There are lots of very confused among envangelicals. Just read these forums and threads. Ignorance abounds.

Of course.

Right. So, prove otherwise, if you can.

There is no comparison between new believers and unbelievers. Both can understand the simple gospel message.

What you describe here is about spiritual growth, which the unbeliever CANNOT understand. That's the difference. It's not the gospel message, but doctrines that lead to spiritual growth that the unbeliever is incapable of understanding.

The "things of the Spirit" refer to those doctrines that lead to spiritual growth, which the unbeliever cannot understand.

I'm talking about the gospel. It is for EVERYONE. Titus 2:11 says the grace of God offers salvation to everyone. This verse would be totally meaningless IF unbelievers can't understand the gospel.

ForestGreenCook · Jul 1, 2022

Lafftur said:

Well, let’s look at the scripture…

The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
1 Corinthians 2:14 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Corinthians 2:14&version=NIV

We know that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God…

So, when the Word of God is spoken, the Holy Spirit of God is also present and can give life to those that can hear the understanding of the Word of God that the Holy Spirit is saying.

It is pride that renders the natural man deaf to the Holy Spirit. However, when a natural man humbles himself, then he can hear what the Holy Spirit is saying and be amazed at his own foolishness and the great wisdom of God.

Can you help me out by giving me a scripture where the un-regenerant person humbles themselves?

Magenta · Jul 1, 2022

ForestGreenCook said:

Titus 1:15-16

ForestGreenCook · Jul 1, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:

Offering it to (KJV says "all men"). Verse 12 says teaching "us". The "us" are the "elect" in verse 1. Titus was commissioned by Paul to ordain elders in the churches in the cities of Crete.

FreeGrace2 said:

Your statement says that unbelievers can believe (understand) which is a contradictive statement.

FreeGrace2 said:

Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are known as the four gospels.

ForestGreenCook · Jul 1, 2022

Magenta said:

Titus 1:15-16, These two verses are stating the condition of the defiled and unblieving, not that they are humbling themselves.

Magenta · Jul 1, 2022

ForestGreenCook said:

Exactly. They are incapable.

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