It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security
- Thread starter Atwood
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While reading your post I was thinking of this scripture, which to most people who profess salvation is very upsetting.
Hebrews 4:1 Let us therefore fear , lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it .
Hebrews 6:4-6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened , and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come ,
6 If they shall fall away , to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh , and put him to an open shame .
Hebrews 4:1 Let us therefore fear , lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it .
Hebrews 6:4-6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened , and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come ,
6 If they shall fall away , to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh , and put him to an open shame .
Peter, kill an eat, and Peter said no Lord I can't kill and eat anything unclean
The Lord said, do not call anything unclean the I (God) speaking have cleansed
And so Peter led by God in Spirit, went to the Gentiles and preached, not him, rather God through him and they were saved, even before water Baptism, saved by god through Peter
To start it was unlawful for Peter to even enter the Gentile houshold
And even Paul state that he is convinced that all things are clean of itself, by the Lord Jesus Christ
So bottom line is what you do with things you have, how you use them, and if we purposely defile our neighbor, oh boy, not good
Love you all God's way through Son's finished work for all,
Father teach me Mercy over sacrifice please?
The Lord said, do not call anything unclean the I (God) speaking have cleansed
And so Peter led by God in Spirit, went to the Gentiles and preached, not him, rather God through him and they were saved, even before water Baptism, saved by god through Peter
To start it was unlawful for Peter to even enter the Gentile houshold
And even Paul state that he is convinced that all things are clean of itself, by the Lord Jesus Christ
So bottom line is what you do with things you have, how you use them, and if we purposely defile our neighbor, oh boy, not good
Love you all God's way through Son's finished work for all,
Father teach me Mercy over sacrifice please?
Hello Brother, long time no hear from, I see you are well, and am thankful, you do stand for the Faith and avoid condemnation as I do that as well, love you,yet just put it out there and have no fight with flesh, just trust from God what to say as in Matt 10:16-20
Here have some food, off of my four foot fork, good to hear from you
Here have some food, off of my four foot fork, good to hear from you
The first obstacle to dependence upon "OSAS" (if true at all) is assurance of being once saved. Assurance of salvation is not instant and automatic upon profession of faith.
The Scripture says: "Examine yourself whether you are in the faith" (2 Co 13:5).
Scripture does give us some ways to test like: "We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren..." (1 John 3:14)
I hope that we all pass that test. I could love others more.
I should also test persons and things outside of myself. Not everyone who claims to be a Christian will prove out to be a Christian in the end (Matthew 7). Jesus will say to many who call him Lord: Depart from me. Many have their houses built on sand rather than on the rock (Matthew 7:13-29).
Faith can be in the head rather than in the heart and that faith won't save (Romans 10:9-10).
We each must be born again before each can enter the kingdom of God. The Holy Spirit must bring about a supernatural and radical change (2 Corinthians 5:17). No one can see where the Holy Spirit comes from when He does his work nor where He goes afterwards (John 3:3,5,8)
Test everything is what Scripture commands (1 Thess. 5:21). Test the spirits to see whether they are from God. (1 John 4:1)
In the USA, 73% claim to be Christian but testing the evidence around me demonstrates that reality is otherwise. Source: Religion in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
We need to consider everything that Jesus and the Bible said. Some sayings of Jesus and the Bible are hard sayings. "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a sewing needle than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of God"(Luke 18:25). More accurate truth is found considering much and by not dispensing with parts of God's message that are less comfortable.
Lying people is something that we have all observed (Psalm 58:3). Satanic power and signs and lying wonders remain that are yet to be displayed (2 Thessalonians 2:9). Many will believe the wrong thing.
When Jesus called his disciples, He commanded: "Follow me" (Matt 4:19, 8:22). Jesus called his disciples to committed discipleship not to a momentary confession of faith. The response of the disciples was an act of obedience that continued. They left all behind and followed.
The Scripture says: "Examine yourself whether you are in the faith" (2 Co 13:5).
Scripture does give us some ways to test like: "We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren..." (1 John 3:14)
I hope that we all pass that test. I could love others more.
I should also test persons and things outside of myself. Not everyone who claims to be a Christian will prove out to be a Christian in the end (Matthew 7). Jesus will say to many who call him Lord: Depart from me. Many have their houses built on sand rather than on the rock (Matthew 7:13-29).
Faith can be in the head rather than in the heart and that faith won't save (Romans 10:9-10).
We each must be born again before each can enter the kingdom of God. The Holy Spirit must bring about a supernatural and radical change (2 Corinthians 5:17). No one can see where the Holy Spirit comes from when He does his work nor where He goes afterwards (John 3:3,5,8)
Test everything is what Scripture commands (1 Thess. 5:21). Test the spirits to see whether they are from God. (1 John 4:1)
In the USA, 73% claim to be Christian but testing the evidence around me demonstrates that reality is otherwise. Source: Religion in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
We need to consider everything that Jesus and the Bible said. Some sayings of Jesus and the Bible are hard sayings. "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a sewing needle than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of God"(Luke 18:25). More accurate truth is found considering much and by not dispensing with parts of God's message that are less comfortable.
Lying people is something that we have all observed (Psalm 58:3). Satanic power and signs and lying wonders remain that are yet to be displayed (2 Thessalonians 2:9). Many will believe the wrong thing.
When Jesus called his disciples, He commanded: "Follow me" (Matt 4:19, 8:22). Jesus called his disciples to committed discipleship not to a momentary confession of faith. The response of the disciples was an act of obedience that continued. They left all behind and followed.
Are you scared of work Jesus is a worker...But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
John 5:16-18
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
ask and keep on asking but I can only answer for myself you have to answer for yourself. If a man be dead how can he work for self. If a man has problems with flesh ...
Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Colossians 3:4-6
[SUP]4 [/SUP]When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
John 5:16-18
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
ask and keep on asking but I can only answer for myself you have to answer for yourself. If a man be dead how can he work for self. If a man has problems with flesh ...
Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Colossians 3:4-6
[SUP]4 [/SUP]When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
Another Divine Outrage vs the god of Human Free Will?
and the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we also do toward you; to the end
he may establish your hearts unblameable in holiness before our God and Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all his saints .
What limit is there on what the Lord will do for the believer to effect the believer's salvation? Has He in fact determined to do whatever it takes? Is this beyond his soveriegn power because He must be inferior to the human free will?
So the Lord makes the believer abound in love.
The Lord establishes hearts unblameable in holiness
[even if the wife or satan is around to object?]
Yes, the latter part is a desire, a prayer by prophet Paul ("may establish").
But will a prayer which a prophet is led by the Holy Spirit to pray, be unanswered?
It must not be outrageous to pray for someone that way, for it is in the Word of God.
We are not going to establish ourselves before God by our human efforts, straining to obey commandments. If it is to be done, God Himself will do it.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.
OSS = Once saved, Saved.
Or should I call this OS-FCO-S =
Once saved, for crying outloud, saved!
Eternal security.
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.
and the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we also do toward you; to the end
he may establish your hearts unblameable in holiness before our God and Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all his saints .
What limit is there on what the Lord will do for the believer to effect the believer's salvation? Has He in fact determined to do whatever it takes? Is this beyond his soveriegn power because He must be inferior to the human free will?
So the Lord makes the believer abound in love.
The Lord establishes hearts unblameable in holiness
[even if the wife or satan is around to object?]
Yes, the latter part is a desire, a prayer by prophet Paul ("may establish").
But will a prayer which a prophet is led by the Holy Spirit to pray, be unanswered?
It must not be outrageous to pray for someone that way, for it is in the Word of God.
We are not going to establish ourselves before God by our human efforts, straining to obey commandments. If it is to be done, God Himself will do it.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.
OSS = Once saved, Saved.
Or should I call this OS-FCO-S =
Once saved, for crying outloud, saved!
Eternal security.
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.
Does the Lord Keep His Appointments.
Anyone remember The Rockford Files, where this character Angel, was an incorrigible Flake? He was good at flaking out, not following through with commitments, if he ever made any.
Now no one could accuse the Lord of not keeping His Word.
"For God appointed us not unto wrath, but to the obtaining of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
For God appointed us not unto wrath, but unto the obtaining of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
So let's divide believers into
1) those who are awake and
2) those who are asleep.
It makes no difference for this promise:
we will live together with Him.
And of course that is a future promise of being sinless.
Now I realize that some may object as to how the Baal god of human free will won't allow as how God should appoint such a thing. I mean for them, it might be OK if a believer got to Heaven, but getting their on God's appointment is another matter.
So if you ever become an "us" by trusting Christ as Savior, you are going to have an appointment, an appointment put in the appointment book by the Lord. He does not just point you to salvation, but appoints you to salvation when you trust Christ as Savior.
Can you see some demon secretary of Hell looking at his roster of coming clients, but in that appointment book no believer's name is found.
God appointed us to the obtaining of salvation.
OSS = Once Saved, Saved!
Eternal Security.
Why miss out? Trust the Savior for your eternal security now.
Drop the unbiblical objects.
Depend on the crucified.
Anyone remember The Rockford Files, where this character Angel, was an incorrigible Flake? He was good at flaking out, not following through with commitments, if he ever made any.
Now no one could accuse the Lord of not keeping His Word.
"For God appointed us not unto wrath, but to the obtaining of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
For God appointed us not unto wrath, but unto the obtaining of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
So let's divide believers into
1) those who are awake and
2) those who are asleep.
It makes no difference for this promise:
we will live together with Him.
And of course that is a future promise of being sinless.
Now I realize that some may object as to how the Baal god of human free will won't allow as how God should appoint such a thing. I mean for them, it might be OK if a believer got to Heaven, but getting their on God's appointment is another matter.
So if you ever become an "us" by trusting Christ as Savior, you are going to have an appointment, an appointment put in the appointment book by the Lord. He does not just point you to salvation, but appoints you to salvation when you trust Christ as Savior.
Can you see some demon secretary of Hell looking at his roster of coming clients, but in that appointment book no believer's name is found.
God appointed us to the obtaining of salvation.
OSS = Once Saved, Saved!
Eternal Security.
Why miss out? Trust the Savior for your eternal security now.
Drop the unbiblical objects.
Depend on the crucified.
Eternal Security Goes Along w/ Salvation by Faith, Not Works
What is so hard to understand about the plain truth in the Word of God?
Eph 2 tells us:
For by grace you have been saved through faith,
& that not of yourselves,
not of works lest anyone should boast.
So why do some keep going on about obeying commandments, doing things for salvation??? Why the confusion of 1) good works being the necessary result of salvation and
2) doing good works for salvation?
Not of Works.
Does everyone see the word Not ?
What is so hard to understand about the plain truth in the Word of God?
Eph 2 tells us:
For by grace you have been saved through faith,
& that not of yourselves,
not of works lest anyone should boast.
So why do some keep going on about obeying commandments, doing things for salvation??? Why the confusion of 1) good works being the necessary result of salvation and
2) doing good works for salvation?
Not of Works.
Does everyone see the word Not ?
Re: Eternal Security Goes Along w/ Salvation by Faith, Not Works
"suffer hardship with the gospel according to the power of God; who saved us, and
called us with a holy calling,
not according to our works, but
according to his own purpose and grace, which was
given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal,
but has now been manifested by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus,
who abolished death and
brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, < 2 Tim 1
This is a fascinating concept:
God saved us not according to our works, but
according to his own purpose and grace, which was
given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal,
Eph 2 has a similar contrast between works & grace
By grace you have been saved . . . not of works.
But in 2 Tim 1 here, "faith" is left out, not that faith is thereby excluded, but it is just not mentioned here.
Can we escape the conclusion that God gave us-believers grace long before we were born,
long before the creation of Adam, saving grace?
Along with the grace went a "calling."
According to Rom 8, if you are called, you are justified & glorified;
in other words, by the calling of the foreordained, they were assured to be in the chain of event which must end in the called being glorified -- final salvation.
Does this imply eternal security? If believers got a calling that must eventuate in glorification,
how can we escape a doctrine of eternal security?
I am not big on arguing predestination here, nor do I claim to fully understand it. I know predestination is mentioned in the Bible a number of times, along with election.
So I put it out for pondering, ye who consider the topic of "eternal security,"
aka OSS = once saved, saved!
But whatever you make of predestination and grace before times eternal,
the following did dead certain:
1) Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.
2) Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & you shall be saved.
3) I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.
4) We'll understand it better bye & bye. (not a Bible quote)
"suffer hardship with the gospel according to the power of God; who saved us, and
called us with a holy calling,
not according to our works, but
according to his own purpose and grace, which was
given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal,
but has now been manifested by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus,
who abolished death and
brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, < 2 Tim 1
This is a fascinating concept:
God saved us not according to our works, but
according to his own purpose and grace, which was
given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal,
Eph 2 has a similar contrast between works & grace
By grace you have been saved . . . not of works.
But in 2 Tim 1 here, "faith" is left out, not that faith is thereby excluded, but it is just not mentioned here.
Can we escape the conclusion that God gave us-believers grace long before we were born,
long before the creation of Adam, saving grace?
Along with the grace went a "calling."
According to Rom 8, if you are called, you are justified & glorified;
in other words, by the calling of the foreordained, they were assured to be in the chain of event which must end in the called being glorified -- final salvation.
Does this imply eternal security? If believers got a calling that must eventuate in glorification,
how can we escape a doctrine of eternal security?
I am not big on arguing predestination here, nor do I claim to fully understand it. I know predestination is mentioned in the Bible a number of times, along with election.
So I put it out for pondering, ye who consider the topic of "eternal security,"
aka OSS = once saved, saved!
But whatever you make of predestination and grace before times eternal,
the following did dead certain:
1) Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.
2) Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & you shall be saved.
3) I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.
4) We'll understand it better bye & bye. (not a Bible quote)
Is There Free Will in Repentance? Good Ol' Metanoia
Metanoia = change of mind. (contrast with the word group metamelomai, which implies sorrow for sin; Judas had this one & hanged himself).
The only metanoia which can save is a change of mind from not trusting the Savior to trusting Him. Now the gospel goes out to whosoever will, whoever is willing. Notwithstanding, the imagination of the unsaved man's heart is only to do evil continually.
Now does the Lord ever interfere with this and give repentance to someone, as a gift, thus interfering, 'twould seem with their sinful hearts?
"in meekness correcting them who oppose themselves;
if peradventure God may give them repentance to the knowledge of the truth, and they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to his will [thelēma, what the devil wants]." - 2 Tim 2
Looks like the human will is not so free as you might postulate. Could it be that men are duped by satan, who has captivating power of them? While you mull that one over, consider 2 Tim 2 where God may give [gift] repentance.
Next question is, if the Lord gives a change mind leading to recovery from the snare of the devil, will be work in the believer both to will and to do His good will?
Does the idea of the Lord giving you repentance & following up with help in your spirit seem attractive to you? Would you be clay in the hands of the potter?
Rom 5 puts forth the thought that if the Lord would save a rotten sinner, much more will He save the Christian in the future which follows his initial salvation.
For while we were yet weak, in due season Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: for peradventure for the good man some one would even dare to die. But God commendeth his own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through him. For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we be saved by his life;
And that is eternal security;
the postposterous & preposterous & altogether posterous idea of OSS = once saved, saved! If you are saved, you indeed are saved.
Are there any reading this determined to go on opposing yourself?
Trust in the crucified Son of God, trust Him for your eternal destiny.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.
Metanoia = change of mind. (contrast with the word group metamelomai, which implies sorrow for sin; Judas had this one & hanged himself).
The only metanoia which can save is a change of mind from not trusting the Savior to trusting Him. Now the gospel goes out to whosoever will, whoever is willing. Notwithstanding, the imagination of the unsaved man's heart is only to do evil continually.
Now does the Lord ever interfere with this and give repentance to someone, as a gift, thus interfering, 'twould seem with their sinful hearts?
"in meekness correcting them who oppose themselves;
if peradventure God may give them repentance to the knowledge of the truth, and they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to his will [thelēma, what the devil wants]." - 2 Tim 2
Looks like the human will is not so free as you might postulate. Could it be that men are duped by satan, who has captivating power of them? While you mull that one over, consider 2 Tim 2 where God may give [gift] repentance.
Next question is, if the Lord gives a change mind leading to recovery from the snare of the devil, will be work in the believer both to will and to do His good will?
Does the idea of the Lord giving you repentance & following up with help in your spirit seem attractive to you? Would you be clay in the hands of the potter?
Rom 5 puts forth the thought that if the Lord would save a rotten sinner, much more will He save the Christian in the future which follows his initial salvation.
For while we were yet weak, in due season Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: for peradventure for the good man some one would even dare to die. But God commendeth his own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through him. For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we be saved by his life;
And that is eternal security;
the postposterous & preposterous & altogether posterous idea of OSS = once saved, saved! If you are saved, you indeed are saved.
Are there any reading this determined to go on opposing yourself?
Trust in the crucified Son of God, trust Him for your eternal destiny.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.
Re: Does the Lord Keep His Appointments.
forgetful ...If OSS why this epistle with all these rules Thanks to ES none of these things matters according to the gospel of atwood you don't have to obey these words you are OSS and thus have ES. Just trust the saviour Paul don't know what he is talking about. You have been appointed to obtain salvation, and nothing can change that. All those things require work for which you will get a reward.but who needs a reward when you already ES through OSS. Isn't it great don't miss out Get your ES now.
"We are not going to establish ourselves before God by our human efforts, straining to obey commandments. If it is to be done, God Himself will do it."
According to Rom 8, if you are called, you are justified & glorified;
in other words, by the calling of the foreordained, they were assured to be in the chain of event which must end in the called being glorified -- final salvation. Don't worry about this[SUP]...13 [/SUP]For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. You already Have ES and you know of course OSS[SUP]14 [/SUP]Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Rejoice evermore.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Pray without ceasing.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Quench not the Spirit.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Despise not prophesyings.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Abstain from all appearance of evil.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
forgetful ...If OSS why this epistle with all these rules Thanks to ES none of these things matters according to the gospel of atwood you don't have to obey these words you are OSS and thus have ES. Just trust the saviour Paul don't know what he is talking about. You have been appointed to obtain salvation, and nothing can change that. All those things require work for which you will get a reward.but who needs a reward when you already ES through OSS. Isn't it great don't miss out Get your ES now.
"We are not going to establish ourselves before God by our human efforts, straining to obey commandments. If it is to be done, God Himself will do it."
According to Rom 8, if you are called, you are justified & glorified;
in other words, by the calling of the foreordained, they were assured to be in the chain of event which must end in the called being glorified -- final salvation. Don't worry about this[SUP]...13 [/SUP]For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. You already Have ES and you know of course OSS[SUP]14 [/SUP]Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Rejoice evermore.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Pray without ceasing.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Quench not the Spirit.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Despise not prophesyings.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Abstain from all appearance of evil.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Re: Eternal Security Goes Along w/ Salvation by Faith, Not Works
Probably because you don't understand scripture. When you are speaking about salvation, your opponents are speaking about attaining eternal life. These are two separate things. Eph 2:8-9 is not referencing attaining eternal life but the salvation that Christ gave as a gift to all men.
Man has nothing to do with the work that Christ did for us. However, why He saved us was to be able to offer all men to be united with Him. That uniting is for eternal life. That is uniting is all about being perfected, being molded into the Likeness of Christ. That takes works, works that were created for us to do, Eph 2:10.
So, keep knocking down your strawmen.
Probably because you don't understand scripture. When you are speaking about salvation, your opponents are speaking about attaining eternal life. These are two separate things. Eph 2:8-9 is not referencing attaining eternal life but the salvation that Christ gave as a gift to all men.
Man has nothing to do with the work that Christ did for us. However, why He saved us was to be able to offer all men to be united with Him. That uniting is for eternal life. That is uniting is all about being perfected, being molded into the Likeness of Christ. That takes works, works that were created for us to do, Eph 2:10.
So, keep knocking down your strawmen.
Apostasy is a fact. Men do depart from "the faith," doctrinal orthodoxy, the things we must believe, be convinced of. For example, some deny that when a man is saved he is saved. They deny:
"He shall save His people from their sins."
They deny, "I give to them eternal life, and they shall never perish."
It is not that those who trust the Lord Jesus as Savior stop trusting Him; there is no such scripture.
The Lord Jesus is the author & perfecter of our faith.
The gifts & the calling of God are irrevocable.
"But the Spirit saith expressly, that in later times some shall fall away from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons, through the hypocrisy of men that speak lies,"
The faith in context is doctrine, orthodox, Biblical doctrine. Main line denominations that officially endorsed the Bible as God's Word and the trinity, have departed. What could be more demonic than the pretended marriages they are now performing.
Heb 6:9 explains it: men can be in a profession of faith, while they never trusted Christ as Savior.
1 John 2 explains it, how they came out from among us, but never were of us, as their departure proves. For if they had been of us, they would not have departed.
"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they all are not of us."
"He shall save His people from their sins."
They deny, "I give to them eternal life, and they shall never perish."
It is not that those who trust the Lord Jesus as Savior stop trusting Him; there is no such scripture.
The Lord Jesus is the author & perfecter of our faith.
The gifts & the calling of God are irrevocable.
"But the Spirit saith expressly, that in later times some shall fall away from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons, through the hypocrisy of men that speak lies,"
The faith in context is doctrine, orthodox, Biblical doctrine. Main line denominations that officially endorsed the Bible as God's Word and the trinity, have departed. What could be more demonic than the pretended marriages they are now performing.
Heb 6:9 explains it: men can be in a profession of faith, while they never trusted Christ as Savior.
1 John 2 explains it, how they came out from among us, but never were of us, as their departure proves. For if they had been of us, they would not have departed.
"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they all are not of us."
Re: Eternal Security Goes Along w/ Salvation by Faith, Not Works
Hogwash. Speaking of straw men you grasp at exegetical straws.
By no means is this about any general salvation that is distinguished from eternal life. Those who do the works in Eph 2:10 are those whom He recreated in salvation, not the general populace. The ones to do the good works are those who trusted Christ as Savior. "By grace you have been saved through faith." Only the born again children of God who are also the saved have faith in Christ. That cannot refer to all men. Notice that the you stays the same throughout the passage, these are Christian believers, the saved. And this special group of you is also called we. The you / we is a special group, the general populace is the sons of disobedience.
This is no salvation for the sons of disobedience. This is the his people: Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins. You make a satanic confusion. To be saved is to have eternal life. By grace you have been saved through faith. God so loved the world that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have eernal life. Those who trust Christ as Savior are alternatively saved or have eternal life.
"And you did he make alive, when you were dead through your trespasses and sins, wherein you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the powers of the air, of the spirit that now works in the sons of disobedience; among whom we also all once lived in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest:— but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward we in Christ Jesus: for by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, that no man should glory. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them."
Hogwash. Speaking of straw men you grasp at exegetical straws.
By no means is this about any general salvation that is distinguished from eternal life. Those who do the works in Eph 2:10 are those whom He recreated in salvation, not the general populace. The ones to do the good works are those who trusted Christ as Savior. "By grace you have been saved through faith." Only the born again children of God who are also the saved have faith in Christ. That cannot refer to all men. Notice that the you stays the same throughout the passage, these are Christian believers, the saved. And this special group of you is also called we. The you / we is a special group, the general populace is the sons of disobedience.
This is no salvation for the sons of disobedience. This is the his people: Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins. You make a satanic confusion. To be saved is to have eternal life. By grace you have been saved through faith. God so loved the world that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have eernal life. Those who trust Christ as Savior are alternatively saved or have eternal life.
"And you did he make alive, when you were dead through your trespasses and sins, wherein you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the powers of the air, of the spirit that now works in the sons of disobedience; among whom we also all once lived in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest:— but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward we in Christ Jesus: for by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, that no man should glory. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them."
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