It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[apostolic862004]

Then you just answered your own question.

if adam did not need to be saved before he sinned, you can not relate to him.

WE STILL NEED TO BE SAVED, AND WILL UNTIL THE DAY WE DIE.

I still need to be saved right this very moment, (even though I am saved) if Gods saving work would stop in my life, I would be condemned. period. This can not be said of adam before the fall. God did not have to sustain him by grace.

Adam did not need grace, Grace means undeserved merit. Adam deserved everything he got up until the time he sinned, Then EVERYTHING he got from God was by Grace.

there was no grace before the fall, it was not needed.

Wait a minute. You didn't just say that did you?! Oh wait you did say it but you don't believe that do you?! You don't believe that you still need to be saved right?!?! Because if you believe that, then you are not eternally secure right now! Either you are saved or lost. And according to your belief, once you have obeyed they Gospel, its a done deal forever. Irreversible. So why are you saying that you still need to be saved? Making statements like that would suggest that you are not actually "saved" until you are standing in heaven. (Which is what the bible teaches by the way! Ephesians 1:14) That means you are not eternally secure until you are in ETERNITY! There is only one thing on earth that is eternal: God's word. Everything else is temporal. That is why we have the admonition to be diligent about our souls salvation (2 peter 1:10)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Wait a minute. You didn't just say that did you?! Oh wait you did say it but you don't believe that do you?! You don't believe that you still need to be saved right?!?! Because if you believe that, then you are not eternally secure right now! Either you are saved or lost. And according to your belief, once you have obeyed they Gospel, its a done deal forever. Irreversible. So why are you saying that you still need to be saved? Making statements like that would suggest that you are not actually "saved" until you are standing in heaven. (Which is what the bible teaches by the way! Ephesians 1:14) That means you are not eternally secure until you are in ETERNITY! There is only one thing on earth that is eternal: God's word. Everything else is temporal. That is why we have the admonition to be diligent about our souls salvation (2 peter 1:10)

Talk about not reading everything.

I still need to be saved right this very moment, (even though I am saved) if Gods saving work would stop in my life, I would be condemned. period.

See how when you twist things around, and do not read everything someone says, you make a fool of yourself?

 

[newbirth]

Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull

What sins do you think he was talking about? He passed over the sins of the OT because they had not been paid for. In gods forbearance (he knew his son would pay for their sin) their sin was passed over, and they were declaried righteous. How could abraham be declaired righteous by faith if his sins were not ocvered yet by the death of Christ?




[SUP][SUP]22 [/SUP]the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: [SUP]23 [/SUP]for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, [SUP]24 [/SUP]and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, [SUP]25 [/SUP]whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. [SUP]26 [/SUP]It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.[/SUP]seems pretty clear he is talking to usin ESV

Try reading the whole thing with open eyes, and thinking heart. and you will see.

Talk about ignorant.

I understand completely my friend. To be honest. I Think I understand what your saying better than you do. (considering I used to think just like you)





You don't even know scripture...[SUP]5 [/SUP]but they will give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For this is why the gospel was preached even to those who are dead, that though judged in the flesh the way people are, they might live in the spirit the way God does.

you are making up stories pal ...tell that to someone who has not read the scriptures and has not the holy spirit. The gospel was preached to the dead.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]Therefore it says,“When he ascended on high he led a host of captives,
and he gave gifts to men.”[SUP][a][/SUP]

[SUP]9 [/SUP](In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower regions, the earth?[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]10 [/SUP]He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.)
I guess Peter is wrong too...
2 Peter 1:9
But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

this is how ESV say it
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins.​

 

[homwardbound]

Need more posts that make sense.

Christ as the Son went to the cross for you personally and all who will beleive, receive and see,
Christ first died for us all, to reconcile us, forgive us, be our propitiation for any and all sin, bringing us to God as if we are Holy
So:
Colossians 1:22
in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

So once we are presented to Father as Holy by Son, when we know we aren't what is still needed?
To go out and work, watch your smoke as you go, and you watch mine as I go? Pat each other on the back to give a sense of self-righteousness?

Or to give up our selves and surrender to Father by Christ and ask for the new life Christ came to give?
Could that be in the resurrected Christ, in Spirit and truth:
So how are we to walk, in look at me and what I am doing, or look at Gods and what he has done for us, by Son?

Does this make sense?

 

[homwardbound]

Knowing that God never changes and that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever (Hebrews 13:8), it is reasonable to say that what I believe must not be picked out from just one scripture but must be supported in both the Old and the New Testaments.

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, (2 Timothy 3:16). Simply, we cannot ignore a scripture because it seems to say something we do not want to hear.

Scripture tells us to, "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling".
If we are saved regardless of what we do, this scripture in Philippians 2:12 would make no sense at all. If we accept this scripture for what it says, we can understand that our salvation is still within our control, for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure (Philippians 2:13). Why then is it in our control? Simply because we have been given the ability to reject God's work in our lives in favour of our own sinful desires.

When we give our hearts to God and receive Him as our Lord and Master, we receive the sure promise of or salvation. In the very instance that we receive Him into our lives as our God, we are made perfect and scripture is fulfilled in our lives. We are saved and all of our sins are forgiven. However, those sins that are forgiven are the past sins and not the future sins that we may still commit. Once we are saved, when we sin, our salvation is still possible through our repentance of those sins. Without that repentance, our sin separates us from God in exactly the same way as it did with Adam.

Hebrews 2:1-3 - Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away. For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him.

If the scripture tells us that we can drift away and neglect so great a salvation, how is it that we can be so certain that we cannot?

Hebrews 3:12 - Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God.

If the scripture warns us to beware of this, how can we say this cannot be?

Hebrews 6:4-6 - For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

If the scripture tells us that we can fall away, who are we to say that we cannot?

1 Corinthians 9:27 - But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

Even Paul knew that he himself might be disqualified if he didn’t take care. Are we any different from him?

Romans 8:13 - For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Here is the point that we must start to understand. If we live according to the flesh, we will die (in the biblical term of being separated from God).


http://www.dbministries.org

Good post Brother,
This warning is because of:
Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

So we are in need for God to give us the new heart in Christ in Spirit and truth you think?

 

[Atwood]

ES: Salvation is a Complete & Permanent Bath

NewB, thanks for bringing to mind the fact that the Christian's Salvation is a Permanent & Complete Bath, Cleansing the Sinner From All Sin

2 Peter 1:9
But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

this is how ESV say it
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins. ​

Good morning, NewB.

A statement that someone was cleansed from his old sins, implies nothing about sins after the old sins. It is like, "Your teeth were brushed in 1999." That does not mean that your teeth were not brushed after 1999.

Let us note that when a man trusts Christ as Savior (as opposed to chance-giver), he received a total cleansing which is effective for his entire life after, though his feet get defiled & require that the Lord cleanse him daily. (In both cases, it is the Lord who does the cleaning.) The Christian approaches his Lord, who stands there with love and a towel around the waste. He kneels down & washes our feet. (a picture).

Inasmuch as you like to quote scripture, you must know the story.

riseth from supper, and layeth aside his garments; and he took a towel, and girded himself. Then he poureth water into the basin, and began to wash the disciples’ feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded. So he cometh to Simon Peter. He saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet? Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt understand hereafter. Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me. Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head. Jesus saith to him, He that is bathed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit"

When one trusts Christ as SAvior, one is born again, given a new nature, which evidently cannot sin. (See 1 John & begat/begotten of God.) The one who trusts the Savior (not chance-giver), receives a complete bath, a permanent bath, rendering him intrinsically clean forever. However, the feet get defiled regularly (in many things we all stumble -- James).

This is part of the eternal security. He cleanses us as we need it, and we get chastened if necessar, limiting our sin.

So, anyone who regards the Lord Jesus as a mere chance-giver, is invited to trust Him and get the permanent bath.

 

[Atwood]

You don't believe that you still need to be saved right?!?! Because if you believe that, then you are not eternally secure right now!

Good morning, apostolic.
Perhaps you would like to do as I have, read through the Bible and mark all the salvation passages. Salvation comes in 3 tenses: past, present, and future. Those who trust Christ as SAvior, at once receive the promise of eternal life; at once they are begotten of God to a new nature, at once they are placed into the Body of Christ, the Church.

To maintain the saved as saved, the Lord Jesus continues His salvific operations -- He is the author & perfecter of our faith. Rom 5 describes the much more salvation going on, on a daily basis. Our feet are washed as needed. We are chastened as needed.

Look at the time words:

and hope puts not to shame; because the love of God has been shed abroad in our hearts through the Holy Spirit which was given unto us. For while we were yet weak, in due season Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: for peradventure for the good man some one would even dare to die. But God commends his own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through him. For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life; and not only so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation."

"For by grace you are having been saved, and that not of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast."

1 John: "That you may know that you have eternal life" -- present possession.

For those who consider Christ only a "chance-giver," you are urged to trust Him as Savior.

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins.

 

[Atwood]

Adam Was Not Saved; His Fall Was Not Losing Salv.

You didn't even read my post! I said very clearly, ADAM DID NOT NEED TO BE SAVED BEFORE HE SINNED! What you are doing is trying to find a reason not to respond to what I said.

True. Adam needed no salvation and got none. He is no example of losing salvation. He is irrelevant to the discussion of eternal security. It may be noted that after Adam sinned, Adam covered his nakedness with leaves (like sinners trying to cover their sins with good works). Although there is no record of Adam asking for anything, the Lord God Himself clothed Adam with animal skins. I see here a type of salvation: The Lord killing animal and shedding blood to clothe Adam as with Christ's righteousness. If so, we can see the Lord taking unilateral action to restore Adam or even improve Adam's relationship with the Lord. This looks like the same thing the Lord does to the Christian to keep the Christian saved. (See Rom 5).

 

[Atwood]

Let me say it again, ADAM DID NOT NEED TO BE SAVED BEFORE HE SINNED. HOWEVER ADAM WAS STILL GOING TO GO TO HEAVEN!

OK Apostolic, prove it. Show where "Heaven" is mentioned in the story. Heaven is off-the-wall; no mention of Heaven whatsoever. Adam was already in a Paradise. Adam was to be King of the Earth (dominion).

 

[Atwood]

The truth is simple. Do what Jesus said. Allow oneself to be convicted in the heart of wrongdoing and forsake that wrong doing. In forsaking wrongdoing yield to God and walk faithfully in the leading and power of God.

Doing what the Lord Jesus says? The Lord Jesus has said the whole Bible.
Now what will you do, O Skinski, about the fact that you are doing wrong and not doing what He has said? You sin & come short of the glory of God. The wages of Sin is death. The Lake of Fire is the 2nd death. What will you do? Buy asbestos underware?

Do that and live.

But you don't do that, so what can be done to save your & my miserable hide?

We are saved by grace through faith, not of ourselves, it is a gift of God so no man may boast.

Now we are getting some, as long as you believe that & don't start twisting it.

"Not of works" does not mean "do nothing" it simply means "not of anything apart from the grace of God."

Not of works means just that. You cannot change it. Salvation is not by works! After you are saved then works must come.

Our salvation is a result of abiding in the Spirit of God which energises us as opposed to "keeping rules and regulations apart from the Spirit." That is why the Bible makes statements like "love fulfills the law" as opposed to "cancelling the law."

Our salvation is a result of what Christ did on the cross, not of abiding in the Spirit. The lost man has no Holy Spirit to abide in. "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Once saved, there is a continuing salvation that goes on. But this is not our regeneration, nor our promise of eternal life, though Christ's work on our behalf does maintain our situation.

The Law ended at the cross; it was nailed there.

How on earth can people conclude that love fulfilling the law and Eph 2:8-9 mean we don't "have to do anything"?

It means we may not do anything to obtain salvation. But after we are saved, then we have been re-created and able to do good works which must follow.

[/quote]Of course we have to do something. We have to obey God. We are to obey God out of a pure heart having come clean through repentance.[/QUOTE]

Repentance is metanoia = change of mind. The only change of mind that saves is a change from not trusting the Savior to trusting the Savior. It is self-righteous hypocrisy to pretend that one's good works save one.

Yes, you have to obey God. So what do you do about the fact that all your righteousnesses are as filthy rags, and that you do not obey him? Will you stand up & pretend how righteous you are? Or will you cry out, "God be merciful to me a sinner."

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & you shall be saved.
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

To anyone who regards the Lord Jesus as a mere "chance-giver," and not the Savior, you are urged now to trust Him as Savior.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

 

[Atwood]

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

So NewB, what will you do about the fact that you are disobedient? Buy asbestos underwear?

The only obedience that saves, is obeying this commandment:

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.

 

[Atwood]

Re: How Many R Deluded into Thinking that Mat 25 is About Salvation?

Good works are not evidence of salvation ...anyone can do good works.

He came not to call the righteous, but sinners to a change of mind.

"Verily I say unto you, that the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you"

" And he spake also this parable unto certain who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and set all others at nought: Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as the rest of men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week; I give tithes of all that I get. But the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote his breast, saying, God, be thou merciful to me a sinner. I say unto you, This man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be humbled; but he that humbleth himself shall be exalted."

The is none that doeth good, no not one.

All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

[SUP][SUP]22 [/SUP]the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: [SUP]23 [/SUP]for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, [SUP]24 [/SUP]and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, [SUP]25 [/SUP]whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. [SUP]26 [/SUP]It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.[/SUP]seems pretty clear he is talking to usin ESV​

seems prety clear you pick and chose what parts of scripture to use, and ignore the rest.

All have sinned (yes even all who believe) But my sin was NOT before the cross of Christ, it was paid in full the moment Christ said it was finished.

This the term "passed over the sin previously committed) would be those who believed BEFORE THE CROSS.

You don't even know scripture...[SUP]5 [/SUP]but they will give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For this is why the gospel was preached even to those who are dead, that though judged in the flesh the way people are, they might live in the spirit the way God does.

you are making up stories pal ...tell that to someone who has not read the scriptures and has not the holy spirit. The gospel was preached to the dead.

1. You prove that you do not read scripture. of course it was preached to the dead.

to those who rejected the gospel in the OT, He taught that their fate was sealed.

to those like abraham and david, He taught that his work was complete. and their salvation was now a reality, and not just a hope.

2. Why do you ignore so much stuff, and pick and chose what to use?


[SUP]

8 [/SUP]Therefore it says,“When he ascended on high he led a host of captives,
and he gave gifts to men.”[SUP][a][/SUP]

[SUP]9 [/SUP](In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower regions, the earth?[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]10 [/SUP]He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.)
I guess Peter is wrong too...
2 Peter 1:9
But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

this is how ESV say it
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins.

Does not prove your point, his future sins have not occurred yet, So how can one forget that their future sins have been purged when they have not even yet occurred.



Keep twisting scripture.

and by the way, will you PLEASE learn how to format. It gets old trying to figure out what you say and correct things to make it readable when I quote you (half of your words do not even show up)

 

[newbirth]

Re: ES: Salvation is a Complete & Permanent Bath

NewB, thanks for bringing to mind the fact that the Christian's Salvation is a Permanent & Complete Bath, Cleansing the Sinner From All Sin




Good morning, NewB.

A statement that someone was cleansed from his old sins, implies nothing about sins after the old sins. It is like, "Your teeth were brushed in 1999." That does not mean that your teeth were not brushed after 1999.

Let us note that when a man trusts Christ as Savior (as opposed to chance-giver), he received a total cleansing which is effective for his entire life after, though his feet get defiled & require that the Lord cleanse him daily. (In both cases, it is the Lord who does the cleaning.) The Christian approaches his Lord, who stands there with love and a towel around the waste. He kneels down & washes our feet. (a picture).

Inasmuch as you like to quote scripture, you must know the story.

riseth from supper, and layeth aside his garments; and he took a towel, and girded himself. Then he poureth water into the basin, and began to wash the disciples’ feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded. So he cometh to Simon Peter. He saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet? Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt understand hereafter. Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me. Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head. Jesus saith to him, He that is bathed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit"

When one trusts Christ as SAvior, one is born again, given a new nature, which evidently cannot sin. (See 1 John & begat/begotten of God.) The one who trusts the Savior (not chance-giver), receives a complete bath, a permanent bath, rendering him intrinsically clean forever. However, the feet get defiled regularly (in many things we all stumble -- James).

This is part of the eternal security. He cleanses us as we need it, and we get chastened if necessar, limiting our sin.

So, anyone who regards the Lord Jesus as a mere chance-giver, is invited to trust Him and get the permanent bath.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Therefore, brothers,[SUP][g][/SUP] be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.

If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that.


For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

 

[Atwood]

OSS: ES = Permanent Salvation; Judgment Is Not Salvation

OSS = once saved, saved! If you are saved, then you are saved, not just given a chance at it.

Judgment & off topic passages are cited, trying to disprove Eternal Security, OSS.

But what is salvation all about? Some are hung up concentrating on how to get past a judgment and be awarded a seat in Heaven, as if that were salvation.

But salvation is the idea that you are a wretched sinner who needs help. If a passage is not about a sinner getting help from the Savior, then it is not about salvation. Take Mat 25 as an example: the Judgment of Sheep & Goats for their treatment of Christ's Brethren (a 3rd group). There is nothing in that passage about sinners getting help from a Savior; salvation is not the topic.

The confusion comes by confusing judgment with salvation and focusing on what determines a man's seat in Heaven, instead of on securing help from a Savior to make one a re-created being who has the promise of eternal life (which does include Heaven).

Eternal Security is the concept that the one who trusts Christ as Savior, gets a new birth and that the Savior is committed to saving the new child from sin in this life and ultimately presenting him perfect with a place in the Father's House. Eternal security denies that a child of God somehow stops being a child of God. ES denies that a member of the body of Christ can be amputated leaving that body mutilated.

Salvation is for sinners who have a desperate need for a Savior:
God be merciful to me a sinner.
O wretched man that I am, who shall deliver me? I thank God, through Christ Jesus. (end of Romans 7).

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

That's what it's all about; and not about being "given a chance," but being Saved.

 

[Atwood]

Re: ES: Salvation is a Complete & Permanent Bath

NewB, thanks for bringing to mind the fact that the Christian's Salvation is a Permanent & Complete Bath, Cleansing the Sinner From All Sin

Good morning, NewB.

A statement that someone was cleansed from his old sins, implies nothing about sins after the old sins. It is like, "Your teeth were brushed in 1999." That does not mean that your teeth were not brushed after 1999.

Let us note that when a man trusts Christ as Savior (as opposed to chance-giver), he received a total cleansing which is effective for his entire life after, though his feet get defiled & require that the Lord cleanse him daily. (In both cases, it is the Lord who does the cleaning.) The Christian approaches his Lord, who stands there with love and a towel around the waste. He kneels down & washes our feet. (a picture).

Inasmuch as you like to quote scripture, you must know the story.

riseth from supper, and layeth aside his garments; and he took a towel, and girded himself. Then he poureth water into the basin, and began to wash the disciples’ feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded. So he cometh to Simon Peter. He saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet? Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt understand hereafter. Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me. Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head. Jesus saith to him, He that is bathed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit"

When one trusts Christ as SAvior, one is born again, given a new nature, which evidently cannot sin. (See 1 John & begat/begotten of God.) The one who trusts the Savior (not chance-giver), receives a complete bath, a permanent bath, rendering him intrinsically clean forever. However, the feet get defiled regularly (in many things we all stumble -- James).

This is part of the eternal security. He cleanses us as we need it, and we get chastened if necessar, limiting our sin.

So, anyone who regards the Lord Jesus as a mere chance-giver, is invited to trust Him and get the permanent bath.

Good post, NewB:

[SUP]9 [/SUP]For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Therefore, brothers,[SUP][g][/SUP] be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.

If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that.


For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

If a passage is not about the Savior giving help to sinners, it is not a passage about salvation, nor about eternal security.

"Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins."

 

[newbirth]

@ eternally

When one trusts Christ as SAvior, one is born again, given a new nature, which evidently cannot sin. (See 1 John & begat/begotten of God.)

It seems scripture can only contradict itself for your purpose. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
someone is not telling the truth...

The one who trusts the Savior (not chance-giver), receives a complete bath, a permanent bath, rendering him intrinsically clean forever.

does it mean that one cannot be defiled, become
unclean or sin?

However, the feet get defiled regularly (in many things we all stumble -- James).

forked tongue...regularly you say?...why do you stumble? You cannot sin. Just said you are clean forever

This is part of the eternal security. He cleanses us as we need it, and we get chastened if necessar, limiting our sin.

if you are clean forever why do you need cleaning again? remember you cannot sin. (who is making you sin..I am persuaded of better things from you man..this is not becoming of ES) So he is limiting your sin now? How much did you get to do today...have you used up your quota?

So, anyone who regards the Lord Jesus as a mere chance-giver, is invited to trust Him and get the permanent bath.

Why do you keep telling people how they regard Christ...yet you disobey him...The scripture says teach them to observe you say observe does not mean to do.

well I suppose those words are there to just to fill up the chapter..

.A statement that someone was cleansed from his old sins, implies nothing about sins after the old sins. It is like, "Your teeth were brushed in 1999." That does not mean that your teeth were not brushed after 1999.

 

[Atwood]

@ eternally
[/COLOR] It seems scripture can only contradict itself for your purpose. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
someone is not telling the truth...

There remains no more sacrifice for sins; going back to the Temple at Jerusalem with animal sacrifices is no longer legitimate. And Christ will not be sacrificed a second time. BTW, the doctrine of salvation is about the Savior helping sinners. That verse is not about salvation. Nor is it about losing salvation. If the passage had said:

Christ will hinder you from sinning willfully by working in you to will and to do according to His will, then the verse would be about salvation. But your verse has nothing in it about salvation and does not say that.

Of course Christians can sin. In may things we all stumble (James).
But the Christian receives a new nature, old things pass away, behold all become new. The Christian is a new creation, result of a new birth by the Holy Spirit. It appears to me that the new nature cannot sin. But the Christian retains the Old Man, the flesh in which Sin dwells. So he can sin. Read about it where the Bible speaks of new nature, new creation, begat/begotten of God, as in 1 John and see what you think.

Here is one passage: "Whosoever is begotten of God does no sin, because his seed abides in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil:"

I take this to refer to the new nature; it cannot sin because begotten of God.

1 John 5
"We know that whosoever is begotten of God sins not; but he that was begotten of God keeps himself, and the evil one touches him not."

Compare Rom 7;

"For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I know not: for not what I would, that do I practise; but what I hate, that I do. But if what I would not, that I do, I consent unto the law that it is good. So now it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwells in me. For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, dwells no good thing: for to will is present with me, but to do that which is good is not. For the good which I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I practise. But if what I would not, that I do,
it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwells in me. I find then the law, that, to me who would do good, evil is present. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: but I see a different law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity under the law of sin which is in my members. Wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me out of the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then I of myself with the mind, indeed, serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."

Do you see that in this passage the Christian is like a Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde, having two I-mes?

You may draw your own conclusions. Receiving a new nature is part of salvation. Salvation is the Savior helping us sinners; and getting a new nature is part of that help. Since the new nature is the result of the Lord providing a new seed, and since that seed abides (remains), it is understandable how the born again Christian perseveres.

This helps me understand eternal security.

Remember NewB, salvation is about a Savior helping sinners. If your passage is not about that, then it is not about salvation.

If anyone is reading this & thinks that the Lord Jesus is merely a chance-giver instead of a Savior, let him trust the Savior today as His Savior.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people for their sins.

 

[Cassian]

Wow, are you a mormon? ir is this where momonism gets this crap?

So God creates things which are not perfect? Tell me, Why did God tell us (and adam) he was alive (by stating that if he ate, he would die)?

It is you who do not understand, no wonder your doctrines are so out there.

Yes adam was created to have a relationship with God. But not to do as you say, God created adam because God wanted to serve adam, to provide all his needs, Just like he wants to do with us.

You do not even know who God is that is quite evident.



lol. Further proof you do not understand the gospel or God.

1. We are not in the same relationship. We still have the flesh nature, Adam did nto have one UNTIL he sinned, Adam did not know evil don;t you remember? let alone have evil thoughts which fought with his spiritual nature.
2. Adam does not negate OSAS, because adam DID NOT NEED SAVED.. I may be saved by the blood. But I still have a human nature, Thus even as a child of God. I STILL NEED SAVED 24/7. You evidently think there are times in your life you do not need saved, Which makes you a dangerous person.



No. All things were not equal.

Adam did not need to be saved, We still do. Its apples and oranges.

Adams story was all about the fall of MANKIND. not the perfection of adam and losing salvation. One must NEED saved before he can lose it




Adam had life. Not eternal life. this is a misnomer and false precept.

The mere fact we are told we HAVE eternal life. means we will as Jesus said in john 6. Never hunger, thirst, die, live forever, HAVE eternal life, and be risen by him, (vs delivered to him) but thats right, you do not even believe this, you have twisted this gospel truth into a pagan ritual of eucharistic sacrifice.



you still do not get it.

When he sinned, Mankind DIED! Spiritual death means separation from God. (God can not relate with sin) Sin had to be paid for. Christ paid that sin debt. And because he PAID THE PRICE IN FULL. We can be offered to be MADE ALIVE in him/. And have that relationship restored.

Your still trying to restore yourself. You do not realise how spiritually dead you are. or you would see the truth of the cross. and how it and ONLY it can save you.

It is obvious you have created your own personal gospel since there is nothing scriptural in your entire reply.
Since you reject the purpose of why God created man, you have nothing to link to the attaining of eternal life which is the very same thing.
You have changed the scriptural definition of the fall with the false doctrine of Original Sin.
You have also rejected the salvation of the world/mankind through His Incarnation and resurrection
Denying the Incarnation and the salvific content through Christ's resurrection you deny the resurrection of the dead, and the victory of Christ over death and sin
You also described the atonement in the terms of the false teaching of Anselm's Satisfaction theory.
We also know that holding to a false theory of eternal security you hold to a predestination theory of God acting indirectly through created means, since God is totally transcendent.

The only conclusion is that you believe in a personal philosophical construct rather than the Gospel of Christ as He gave it in the beginning.
It is clear that you are speaking about a completely different paradigm than what scripture has always described from the beginning.

 

[Atwood]

Calvin Shmalvin; TULIP Is Not Essential to the Doctrine 4 Some

You would think that for some reason someone thinks that just repeating
"Calvin . . . Calvin . . . Calvin . . . Calvin . . ." like a mantra refutes Eternal Security - LOL.
As I pointed out, I think that the famous apologist Norman Geisler
( www.normangeisler.net )
rejects the T, U, L, & I of the TULIP, while holding to the P.

IMHO, the best radio preacher of all time is J. Vernon McGee, who did a 5 year cycle of preaching through the Bible from Gen-Rev on the radio, Monday to Friday, and also had supplementary Q & A programs. He has now gone to Heaven. But his programs & teaching are on YouTube.

Here is his Q & A where he endorses Eternal Security: Dr J Vernon McGee Q&A - Eternal Security of the Believer - YouTube

And here is the YouTube entitled: ""Dr. J. Vernon McGee Refutes Calvinism - . . . "
​Dr. J. Vernon McGee Refutes Calvinism - Doctrine of Election and Free Will (Part 1) - YouTube


"McGee calls Calvinism's Doctrine of Election a dangerous and frightful view of God. He also said, if he believed in this doctrine, he'd never attempted to preach the word of God and never try to lead anyone to Christ because there'd be no need of it."

I think you will find more than one of his videos on these topics (like election, free will, predestination).

My point is not to endorse the great preacher McGee on this subject or to disagree with him here. My point is that repeating the old Calvin mantra proves nothing.

Really to understand the teaching of eternal security requires looking carefully at the many texts that proclaim this truth, not worrying about ol' Calvin.

Now reader, if you think of the Lord Jesus as a mere "chance-giver,"
repent and trust Him as Savior.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins.