It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[Atwood]

Eternal Security is the Doctrine that the Saved Endure

Thus it is nonsense to quote a passage which says that the one who endures will be saved as contrary to that doctrine. The passages generally quoted are off subject any way, having to do with deliverance from persecution when Christ returns at the end of the Tribulation. But someone goes on repeating the same ol

 

[kennethcadwell]

Right, but look at the context, " and the one who comes to Me, I will by no means cast out. "

If that one then choses to fall away and not follow Him any more ( he no longer comes to the Lord ), therefor that one choses his own fate (cast out from his own doing), but if he then choses to repent and come back to the Lord will the Lord reject him ( no, the Lord will keep his reward always there for us to accept )

Which is why people find it hard to understand that our Lord will not take it away, but we can take it away (refuse it ) ourselves.

because of verses like this:
John 6:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

 

[Atwood]

The Sinner is Sin-Erg-ic, but Can't Save Himself

Great verse! So, salvation is a synergic work between God and me. Do I still come to God if I betray Him (like Judas did, for example)?

Simona,
Human works are excluded from salvation (eph 2).

If you want to be believed, a proof text would be helpful

 

[Cody]

Great verse! So, salvation is a synergic work between God and me. Do I still come to God if I betray Him (like Judas did, for example)?

yes

John 17:12
While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

Romans 8:35
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?

Romans 8:39
nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Simona25]

Re: Eternal Security is the Doctrine that the Saved Endure

Thus it is nonsense to quote a passage which says that the one who endures will be saved as contrary to that doctrine. The passages generally quoted are off subject any way, having to do with deliverance from persecution when Christ returns at the end of the Tribulation. But someone goes on repeating the same ol

Are you delivered from temptation?

 

[kennethcadwell]

Re: Eternal Security is the Doctrine that the Saved Endure

All those scriptures do not apply to just the tribulation period. Matthew 10 does not, and most of the ones from the apostles do not either because they were teaching those in front of them at that time to observe this way. Our Lord has not returned yet and therefor these teachings still apply.

Thus it is nonsense to quote a passage which says that the one who endures will be saved as contrary to that doctrine. The passages generally quoted are off subject any way, having to do with deliverance from persecution when Christ returns at the end of the Tribulation. But someone goes on repeating the same ol

 

[Cody]

Right, but look at the context, " and the one who comes to Me, I will by no means cast out. "

If that one then choses to fall away and not follow Him any more ( he no longer comes to the Lord ), therefor that one choses his own fate (cast out from his own doing), but if he then choses to repent and come back to the Lord will the Lord reject him ( no, the Lord will keep his reward always there for us to accept )

Which is why people find it hard to understand that our Lord will not take it away, but we can take it away (refuse it ) ourselves.

Only if you deny that Paul says that nothing in all of creation will separate us from the love of God Rom 8:39. Our "free will" is part of creation.

 

[Simona25]

no

John 17:12
While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

Romans 8:35
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?

Romans 8:39
nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

When you say "no", you mean salvation is not a synergic work? My relation with God is only one-sided (only from Him?), it doesn't matter how I respond to His love?

 

[Cody]

When you say "no", you mean salvation is not a synergic work? My relation with God is only one-sided (only from Him?), it doesn't matter how I respond to His love?

Of course salvation is not synergistic...We are saved by grace through faith, not of ourselves. Eph 2:8

 

[crossnote]

When you say "no", you mean salvation is not a synergic work? My relation with God is only one-sided (only from Him?), it doesn't matter how I respond to His love?

Salvation is one sided...relationship is two sided.

 

[Simona25]

Of course salvation is not synergistic...We are saved by grace through faith, not of ourselves. Eph 2:8

Synergic doesn't mean that I save myself. Synergic means that the grace of God falls upon everybody (just like the sun shines upon everybody), but you also have to respond to grace. You are free to say "no" to God. That's what synergic means.

 

[Simona25]

Salvation is one sided...relationship is two sided.

Salvation is by grace, I agree. But, it matters how we respond to this grace. That's what I meant to say.

 

[Cody]

Synergic doesn't mean that I save myself. Synergic means that the grace of God falls upon everybody (just like the sun shines upon everybody), but you also have to respond to grace. You are free to say "no" to God. That's what synergic means.

I can't believe that simona because the Lord says John 6:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

So ALL God gives to his Son will come. Once God changes a persons heart by drawing them to himself, we do not turn down that awesome love that is revealed to us.

 

[Atwood]

Right, but look at the context, " and the one who comes to Me, I will by no means cast out. "

Context:

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he has given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."

If that one then choses to fall away and not follow Him any more ( he no longer comes to the Lord ), therefor that one choses his own fate (cast out from his own doing), but if he then choses to repent and come back to the Lord will the Lord reject him ( no, the Lord will keep his reward always there for us to accept )

You make up things Kenneth. There is nothing about choosing to fall away and not follow. Neither does the text speak of following. Nothing about choosing to repent & come back. The passage envisions just one event of coming, the result of God's gift. Salvation is not a reward for works; it is a free gift. You seem to confuse rewards and salvation.

You don't understand that the Lord Jesus is the Savior, not just a chance-giver.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

What have you got against being saved from your sins by a Savior?

 

[Simona25]

I can't believe that simona because the Lord says John 6:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

So ALL God gives to his Son will come. Once God changes a persons heart by drawing them to himself, we do not turn down that awesome love that is revealed to us.

But Judas did turn down the awesome love that his teacher and friend (God) show him. Peter also denied Him three times. We are free to say "no" to God.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Our Lord gives the gift/reward of eternal salvation in which will always be there, and never taken away.

It is then left in our hands, and we can then accept, refuse, turn away, fall away, or walk away from that salvation. These are all biblical teachings, for there is scriptures that speak of each.

If you accept and continue to walk in love and God's will your reward will be eternal salvation.

If you refuse, your reward is the lake of fire.

If you accept then turn away, walk away, or fall away and not come back to our Lord. Then your reward is also the lake of fire.

 

[Atwood]

Re: Eternal Security is the Doctrine that the Saved Endure

All those scriptures do not apply to just the tribulation period. Matthew 10 does not, and most of the ones from the apostles do not either because they were teaching those in front of them at that time to observe this way. Our Lord has not returned yet and therefor these teachings still apply.

Yes they refer to the Trib, the time just before Christ returns to earth. I already quoted you the Mat 10 passage. You don't see the ref to Christ's return there? Can you not see that it moves beyond the time of Christ & the 12 apostles? Can't you see the tribulation persecution in that passage?

And can you not get it that E S is the POV that the saints all endure to the end?

 

[kennethcadwell]

Exactly, Judas went against our Lord and is now set for fiery indignation. And Peter denied our Lord three times. The difference between the two was Peter returned back to our Lord, and Judas did not.

But Judas did turn down the awesome love that his teacher and friend (God) show him. Peter also denied Him three times. We are free to say "no" to God.

 

[Atwood]

But Judas did turn down the awesome love that his teacher and friend (God) show him. Peter also denied Him three times. We are free to say "no" to God.

But Peter did not lose salvation. The Lord Jesus had prayed for Peter that his faith not fail.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Re: Eternal Security is the Doctrine that the Saved Endure

Wrong again, Matthew 10 is what He taught the disciples before He sent them out two by two to preach the gospel and how one must walk, not about the tribulation period do to that did not happen then and still has not happened.

Yes they refer to the Trib, the time just before Christ returns to earth. I already quoted you the Mat 10 passage. You don't see the ref to Christ's return there? Can you not see that it moves beyond the time of Christ & the 12 apostles? Can't you see the tribulation persecution in that passage?

And can you not get it that E S is the POV that the saints all endure to the end?