It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

newbirth · Sep 15, 2014

do you see what Jesus told those who believed him?.....

John 8:30-37American Standard Version (ASV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP]As he spake these things, many believed on him.

[SUP]31 [/SUP]Jesus therefore said to those Jews that had believed him, If ye abide in my word, then are ye truly my disciples;

[SUP]32 [/SUP]and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

[SUP]33 [/SUP]They answered unto him, We are Abraham's seed, and have never yet been in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Every one that committeth sin is the bondservant of sin.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]And the bondservant abideth not in the house for ever: the son abideth for ever.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]If therefore the Son shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]I know that ye are Abraham's seed: yet ye seek to kill me, because my word hath not free course in you.

Atwood · Sep 15, 2014

A great verse was posted below on ETERNAL SECURITY! The Child of God abides forever! At the heart of eternal security is the teaching that the believer is begotten of God, God's seed abides in him.

And the bondservant abideth not in the house forever:
the son abideth forever.

1 Peter 1:

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

It is based on a new birth from God, by reason of which we get an inheritance incorruptible, etc.
The believer in Christ is no longer a slave, but a son of God! There is no way to unbeget someone. You may not approve of what your son does, but you cannot stop being his father. You may chastise him. In fact, chastisement is guaranteed to the child of God, and it proves he is a child of God.
the son abides forever.

There is that word, abide. The fruit of evangelism abides. The child of God abides, he endures. He who does not endure shows he was never a child of God.

Alligator · Sep 16, 2014

Atwood said:

There is that word, abide. The fruit of evangelism abides. The child of God abides, he endures. He who does not endure shows he was never a child of God.

There is your classic cop out. It is used by those who cling to OSAS in order to,get around the possibility of apostasy. Gal. 5:4 says they are FALLEN FROM GRACE. You can't fall from a place you've never been.

Atwood · Sep 16, 2014

Alligator said:

Gal 5:4 does not mention the word save, Savior, nor salvation. Also "lose" does not occur there. If you want to know about salvation, start by reading where the term occurs in the Bible instead of jumping to conclusions where salvation is not mentioned.

It is no cop out. Eternal Security is the plain word of God. Why be desperate to deny the efficacy of the Savior? Is it too much to give up self-righteous pride & confess yout depravity requiring grace?

"4 Ye are severed from Christ, ye who would be justified by the law; ye are fallen away from grace."

A dog can certainly chase a truck & fall away from it without ever getting in.

But God's word is clear:

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

I give them eternal life, & they shall never perish. While a slave doesn't stay in the house forever, a son abides!

And the bondservant abideth not in the house forever:
the son abideth forever.
You seem more interested in defending your heresy than in receiving the free gift of eternal life, bought at such a cost, the blood of Jesus so your sinful hide & mine might be saved.

All who dismiss the SAvior as chance-giver are urged to Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & you shall be saved. Trust Him fully as Savior.

Alligator · Sep 16, 2014

Atwood said:

shame on you Paul you didn't use the exact words that Atwood said you must use to get your point across. So unless you use Atwood's words, it doesn't count.

Atwood, I wasn't born yesterday. Anyone with comprehension on a third grade level can see that passage talks about the possibility of losing your soul.

Atwood · Sep 16, 2014

Alligator said:

Nonsense.
Where is the word for soul?
Where is the word for lose?
Nowhere.
You read things in.

The question isn't being born yesterday,
the question is being born again --
That requires trusting Christ as Savior (not dismissing the Savior & inventing an idol called "mere chance-giver"who does not exist).

Nothing about "losing soul" in Galatians there.

Ask yourself if it is about you. Have you heard the gospel of grace & fallen away from it?

For by grace you have been saved through faith,
and that not of yourself, not of works lest anyone should boast.

Atwood · Sep 16, 2014

Ye Olde Thread Topic = Once Saved . . . Saved! Eternal Security.
The plain teaching of God's word.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.

Now if you aren't a people, you may object. But it does no good.
God's word remains.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

I give them eternal life, & they shall never perish. While a slave doesn't stay in the house forever, a son abides!

And the bondservant abideth not in the house forever:
the son abideth forever.
You seem more interested in defending your heresy than in receiving the free gift of eternal life, bought at such a cost, the blood of Jesus so your sinful hide & mine might be saved.

All who dismiss the SAvior as chance-giver are urged to Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & you shall be saved. Trust Him fully as Savior.

Alligator · Sep 16, 2014

Atwood said:

You want to know what nonsense is, I'll tell you, it's seeing "severed from Christ " and still claiming you can't lose your salvation.
Nonsense is choosing a few select words and if they aren't used, you just ignore them, that is stupidity. Either you're being dishonest or you have zero comprehension.

Atwood · Sep 16, 2014

Alligator said:

If you would trust Christ as Savior (not denying HIm as mere Chance giver) you would get some comprehension.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus for He shall save His people from their sins.

You need to give your attention that actually speak of salvation, instead of trying to deduce things from passages that lack the concept. Of course if you want to follow law to be justified, you make Christ's death on the cross inoperative for yourself. That does cut you off from getting saved by grace, but the verb doesn't mean severe or cut off. Is that not just what you do, cut yourself off from grace by an attempt at legalistic justification?

"Severed" is a mistranslation. The verb does not mean cut off. Probably because of circumcision in context some translator thought it would make a striking translation to say "severed."

Save/Savior/and Salvation are not merely a few select words, they are right on topic, the place to start your focus.

Gal 5

5:1 For freedom did Christ set us free: stand fast therefore, and be not entangled again in a yoke of bondage.

2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that, if ye receive circumcision, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 Yea, I testify again to every man that receiveth circumcision, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4 Ye made throughly inoperative from Christ, ye who would be justified by the law; ye are fallen away from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit by faith wait for the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love.

The Greek verb katargeō καταργέω =
κατ(α) = throughly
α = not
ἐργ = work (ἐ is assimilated )
έω = verb ending

καταργέω
1. to cause someth. to be unproductive, use up, exhaust, waste of a tree κ. τὴν γῆν Lk 13:7

2. to cause someth. to lose its power or effectiveness, invalidate, make powerless fig. extension of 1) make ineffective, nullify τὴν πίστιν τοῦ θεοῦ God’s fidelity Ro 3:3. ἐπαγγελίαν Gal 3:17; cp. Ro 4:14; τὰ ὄντα κ. nullify the things that (actually) exist 1 Cor 1:28. τὸν νόμον make the law invalid Eph 2:15; cp. Ro 3:31

3. to cause someth. to come to an end or to be no longer in existence, abolish, wipe out, set aside

4. to cause the release of someone from an obligation (one has nothing more to do with it), be discharged, be released. In our lit. pass. καταργοῦμαι ἀπό τινος of a woman upon the death of her husband κατήργηται ἀπὸ τοῦ νόμου τοῦ ἀνδρός Ro 7:2. Of Christians κ. ἀπὸ τοῦ νόμου be released fr. the law vs. 6. Of those who aspire to righteousness through the law κ. ἀπὸ Χριστοῦ be estranged from Christ Gal 5:4.

BDAG NT Lexicon

The passage is not about losing salvation (no where in text). It is about those who (like you???) seek justification by obeying commandments. You need a Savior to save you because you are never going to do the commandments.

Atwood · Sep 16, 2014

Back on topic Eternal Security; Once Saved . . . saved!

THE OVERCOMER

Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and
I will never blot his name out of the book of life.
I will confess his name before my Father…
1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He who overcomes shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

< 2 Tim 4:18
The Lord will deliver me from every evil work, and will save me unto his heavenly kingdom;

Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

Alligator · Sep 16, 2014

Atwood said:

Back on topic Eternal Security; Once Saved . . . saved!

THE OVERCOMER

Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and
I will never blot his name out of the book of life.
I will confess his name before my Father…
1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He who overcomes shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

< 2 Tim 4:18
The Lord will deliver me from every evil work, and will save me unto his heavenly kingdom;

Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 6:37
All that the Father gives
me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

LOL, so now it's the translators fault. You truly are a piece of work
Continue living your lie if it makes
you feel better. Hopefully one day you will awake from your slumber.

fredjames · Sep 16, 2014

"It is satanic heresy to deny the written New Covenant in whole by the Help of the HOLY SPIRIT."

Atwood · Sep 16, 2014

Alligator said:

check it out. katargeo does not mean sever.

but take the passage to heart as to making grace inoperative by legalism. u must b saved by grace or not at all

Atwood · Sep 16, 2014

Re: Abiding in Christ is Fellowship, not Salvation

back on thread

All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

newbirth · Sep 16, 2014

Atwood said:

you missed the whole point Atwood....what did Jesus tell those who believed him?.......If ye abide in my word, then are ye truly my disciples;

[SUP]32 [/SUP]and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
you keep saying he who does not endure ...was never a child....how can one endure something they were never a part of????
you are amazing ...so full of folly....

Alligator · Sep 16, 2014

Atwood said:

so, you don't like the ESV translation of severed, then how about "fallen from grace". You can't be saved if you have fallen from grace, obviously.

you say making Grace inoperative by legalism, no, you make Grace inoperative by failing to obey Christ.

Atwood · Sep 16, 2014

Alligator said:

Try again when you find lose & salvation in the same verse in the Bible somewhere.

A dog who chases a truck can fall away from it without getting in.

I would not call you a dog, but if you have had the gospel of grace presented to you, refused it, & fallen away from it, I agree that you are not saved.

you say making Grace inoperative by legalism, no, you make Grace inoperative by failing to obey Christ.[/QUOTE]

It is only the disobedient who need grace. He came not to call the righteous, but sinners.

The word says, "21 I do not make void the grace of God: for if righteousness is through the law, then Christ died for nought."

Legalism makes grace inoperative; failing to obey is necessary to qualify for grace.

The passage from which you want to pull a few words out of context says: (ASV):

4 Ye are severed from Christ,
ye who would be justified by the law; ye are fallen away from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit by faith wait for the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love.

Now who will you believe? Your perverted conscience or the Word of God?

Alligator · Sep 17, 2014

Atwood said:

It is only the disobedient who need grace. He came not to call the righteous, but sinners.

The word says, "21 I do not make void the grace of God: for if righteousness is through the law, then Christ died for nought."

Legalism makes grace inoperative; failing to obey is necessary to qualify for grace.

The passage from which you want to pull a few words out of context says: (ASV):

4 Ye are severed from Christ,
ye who would be justified by the law; ye are fallen away from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit by faith wait for the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love.

Now who will you believe? Your perverted conscience or the Word of God?[/QUOTE]

Every time you post, your "analysis" becomes more bizarre. That dog analysis is ridiculous and tops them all so far. Who do I believe, you ask, I believe the word just as it is written. I don't believe the word that YOU have manipulated, changed,, twisted, and otherwise distorted In Order to make it fit with your foolish interpretations.
retations.
I

Alligator · Sep 17, 2014

Atwood said:

It is only the disobedient who need grace. He came not to call the righteous, but sinners.

The word says, "21 I do not make void the grace of God: for if righteousness is through the law, then Christ died for nought."

Legalism makes grace inoperative; failing to obey is necessary to qualify for grace.

The passage from which you want to pull a few words out of context says: (ASV):

4 Ye are severed from Christ,
ye who would be justified by the law; ye are fallen away from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit by faith wait for the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love.

Now who will you believe? Your perverted conscience or the Word of God?[/QUOTE]

Nice try, but i caught you again. The passage doesn't say "fell away" , it says fallen from there is a difference , and so goes your dog theory". Just more twisting of the scriptures.

Atwood · Sep 17, 2014

Seeming to ignore the entire context of Galatians, which teaches justification by faith & is much opposed to salvation by keeping commandments, out of such a book hostile to the idea of "losing salvation," someone want to claim Gal 5 as teaching "losing salvation, though the verses have neither salvation nor lose.

4 κατηργήθητε ἀπὸ Χριστοῦ, οἵτινες ἐν νόμῳ δικαιοῦσθε, τῆς χάριτος ἐξεπέσατε. 5 ἡμεῖς γὰρ πνεύματι ἐκ πίστεως ἐλπίδα δικαιοσύνης ἀπεκδεχόμεθα. 6 ἐν γὰρ Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ οὔτε περιτομή τι ἰσχύει οὔτε ἀκροβυστία ἀλλὰ πίστις δι᾿ ἀγάπης ἐνεργουμένη.

4 Ye are rendered throughly inoperative from Christ, ye who would be justified by the law;
ye are fallen away from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit by faith wait for the expectation of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love.

κατηργήθητε does not mean severed.
Check the Greek lexicons if you doubt.
The morphemes don't support "severed."

The King James has it better, though in modern English we don't say "Christ is become of no effect" but "Christ has become of no effect."

Darby's language: "You are deprived of all profit from the Christ . . . ."

It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

Banned

Senior Member

Alligator

Guest

Senior Member

Alligator

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Alligator

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Alligator

Guest

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Alligator

Guest

Senior Member

Alligator

Guest

Alligator

Guest

Senior Member