It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[Mitspa]

But Rahab could not continue to be a harlot and continue to have eternal life................

Well the scriptures don't say anything but that she was justified by faith......and that's the point! You don't decide who or how God justifies...He does that.
Ro 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

 

[Mitspa]

1 John 1:8

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Well you got a problem don't you?

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Well the scriptures don't say anything but that she was justified by faith......and that's the point! You don't decide who or how God justifies...He does that.
Ro 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Well you got a problem don't you?

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Well first off your right, I don't make that decision.
Secondly God does make that decision, and through His holy Word he says clearly that a person can not continue in the sins they were walking in and be saved. For it says if you continue in willful sins after knowing the truth, then there is no more sacrifice but a fear of judgment and ending of being cast in the lake of fire.

Next, no I don't have a problem.
For it is you that is miss using those scriptures from 1 John 3:8-9, as I have explained to you already. The context when you take all the scriptures together in context means that a born again believer will not walk in willful sins. Willful sins by the bible is classified as those sins that have not been repented or confessed of, so that they can be given remission for. Those who are of the devil will not repent or confess their sins for they love walking in the darkness.

People need to get over this false teaching of just two groups, unbelievers and believers. For the bible also talks about the disobedient servants of God to, and says they will get a place in the lake of fire with the unbelievers..........

 

[Mitspa]

Well first off your right, I don't make that decision.
Secondly God does make that decision, and through His holy Word he says clearly that a person can not continue in the sins they were walking in and be saved. For it says if you continue in willful sins after knowing the truth, then there is no more sacrifice but a fear of judgment and ending of being cast in the lake of fire.

Next, no I don't have a problem.
For it is you that is miss using those scriptures from 1 John 3:8-9, as I have explained to you already. The context when you take all the scriptures together in context means that a born again believer will not walk in willful sins. Willful sins by the bible is classified as those sins that have not been repented or confessed of, so that they can be given remission for. Those who are of the devil will not repent or confess their sins for they love walking in the darkness.

People need to get over this false teaching of just two groups, unbelievers and believers. For the bible also talks about the disobedient servants of God to, and says they will get a place in the lake of fire with the unbelievers..........

You give your opinion Kenneth and very little if any scripture to back it up.... The facts are and remain that the law is the strength of sin...and those under the law are slaves of sin.

 

[kennethcadwell]

You give your opinion Kenneth and very little if any scripture to back it up.... The facts are and remain that the law is the strength of sin...and those under the law are slaves of sin.

If you think I give very little scripture, then that obviously shows that you don't read my posts as I have given tons of scriptures. Even given posts upon posts of nothing but scripture, as I did just the other day by listening over a hundred scriptures back to back on repentance. I have done the same before with obedience, confession, and lists of things that can not be in a believers life.

[h=1]Hebrews 10:26-27[/h]26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.



[h=1]Luke 12:46-48[/h]46 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him,and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.47 And that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.48 But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.

 

[Mitspa]

If you think I give very little scripture, then that obviously shows that you don't read my posts as I have given tons of scriptures. Even given posts upon posts of nothing but scripture, as I did just the other day by listening over a hundred scriptures back to back on repentance. I have done the same before with obedience, confession, and lists of things that can not be in a believers life.

Hebrews 10:26-27

26For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.



Luke 12:46-48

46 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him,and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.47 And that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.48 But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.

The "willful" sin of Heb 10:26 is the sin of turning from the Spirit of grace and the cleansing blood of Christ back to the law of Moses... (the strength of sin) and only those who keep the commandment of Christ are in His will...those under the law of Moses are slaves of sin.

 

[Atwood]

Man makes themselves slaves to sin by living in them continuously day in and day out, and refusing to give them up.

Men are born sinners.

What is pitiful is when a constantly sinning, self-righteous unsaved man proclaims that men should not entrust Christ with their destiny and trust Christ as Savior ,on the grounds that if men should trust Christ as Savior, that would cause men to sin.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

 

[Atwood]

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

5:18 We know that whosoever is begotten of God sinneth not; but he that was begotten of God keepeth himself, and the evil one toucheth him not.

I take that to refer to the new nature which the Christian received from God when he was born again. However, the old man hangs around & can spring into action:

Romans 7 "I was alive apart from the law once, but when the law came, sin revived & I died . . . I am carnal sold under sin."

At salvation the old man flesh remains and the need of current transformation is constant (Rom 12:1-2; 2 Cor 3:18). If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves. Sin resides in the old me, the flesh (Rom 7).

9 Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God.

The new nature received from God cannot sin because it is begotten of God.

This sustains the doctrine of eternal security. His seed abides in Him. The new nature cannot sin. At death we lose the Old Man completely.
(He who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin.)

 

[Mitspa]

5:18 We know that whosoever is begotten of God sinneth not; but he that was begotten of God keepeth himself, and the evil one toucheth him not.

I take that to refer to the new nature which the Christian received from God when he was born again. However, the old man hangs around & can spring into action:

Romans 7 "I was alive apart from the law once, but when the law came, sin revived & I died . . . I am carnal sold under sin."

At salvation the old man flesh remains and the need of current transformation is constant (Rom 12:1-2; 2 Cor 3:18). If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves. Sin resides in the old me, the flesh (Rom 7).

9 Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God.

The new nature received from God cannot sin because it is begotten of God.

This sustains the doctrine of eternal security. His seed abides in Him. The new nature cannot sin. At death we lose the Old Man completely.
(He who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin.)

Its really very simple...John sad sin is a transgression of the law...and a believer cannot break the law of Moses...because a believer is not under it! We are justified before God by Christ...how can God ever call us sinners while we are justified by Christ? Is Christ a minister of sin? God forbid!

 

[Atwood]

But Rahab could not continue to be a harlot and continue to have eternal life................

Wrongly stated.
I give them eternal life & they shall never perish.

What you should say is that

Rahab could not have eternal life and continue to be a harlot.
Salvation brings deliverance from sin.
Abstaining from sin does not bring eternal life.

For by grace you have been saved through faith,
& that not of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship created in God for good works.

And be reminded that the harlots may enter, but the Pharisees do not.

 

[Atwood]

Its really very simple...John sad sin is a transgression of the law...and a believer cannot break the law of Moses...because a believer is not under it! We are justified before God by Christ...how can God ever call us sinners while we are justified by Christ? Is Christ a minister of sin? God forbid!

And disobedience of God's commands given to us, is sin, whether it came by Moses or any other prophet.

When the law came, sin revived & I died.

The particular law mentioned is thou shalt not lust/covet, valid in all dispensations.

Your quote of the KJV on law is a mistranslation:

Πᾶς ὁ ποιῶν τὴν ἁμαρτίαν καὶ τὴν ἀνομίαν ποιεῖ, καὶ ἡ ἁμαρτία ἐστὶν ἡ ἀνομία.

Everyone doing sin also does lawlessness. And sin is lawlessness -- some may render lawlessness is sin.

The word law itself is not in the Greek, but anomia. Law is nomos (nom- being the root/stem). A- is alpha privative, not, non, etc.

I don't take lawlessness to mean Law-of-Moses-lessness.

I don't see how you could say that the world destroyed at the Flood was not a world of sinners, nor that the Sodomites destroyed at Sodom were not sinners, yet they had no Law of Moses. In fact, no one but the Israelites were given the Law of Moses.

 

[Atwood]

Kenneth, are you so blind as not to see that in your two passages salvation is not ever mentions, nor save, nor Savior. You confuse judgment with salvation. And you stop short in your quote from Hebrews.

Hebrews 10:26-27
26For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
. . .
The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
. . .
But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

You just need to keep reading a little further to understand such passages; but perhaps you will not until you trust Christ as your Savior.

The Lord judges all men by their works. Christians in this life are chastised, possibly even to the point of satan destroying their bodies that their spirits may be saved. Christians at the Bema will get rewards or lose rewards. But God's children remain God's children.

And there is no more sacrifice for sins after Christ's death. Thus the Hebrews should not be going to the Temple & sacrificing animals there.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Wrongly stated.
I give them eternal life & they shall never perish.

What you should say is that

Rahab could not have eternal life and continue to be a harlot.
Salvation brings deliverance from sin.
Abstaining from sin does not bring eternal life.

For by grace you have been saved through faith,
& that not of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship created in God for good works.

And be reminded that the harlots may enter, but the Pharisees do not.

[h=1]Hebrews 10:26-27[/h]26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Kenneth, are you so blind as not to see that in your two passages salvation is not ever mentions, nor save, nor Savior. You confuse judgment with salvation. And you stop short in your quote from Hebrews.

Hebrews 10:26-27
26For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
. . .
The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
. . .
But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

You just need to keep reading a little further to understand such passages; but perhaps you will not until you trust Christ as your Savior.

The Lord judges all men by their works. Christians in this life are chastised, possibly even to the point of satan destroying their bodies that their spirits may be saved. Christians at the Bema will get rewards or lose rewards. But God's children remain God's children.

And there is no more sacrifice for sins after Christ's death. Thus the Hebrews should not be going to the Temple & sacrificing animals there.

What do you think the fiery indignation is ??????????????

That is being cast into the lake of fire my friend !!!

 

[Atwood]

The "willful" sin of Heb 10:26 is the sin of turning from the Spirit of grace and the cleansing blood of Christ back to the law of Moses... (the strength of sin) and only those who keep the commandment of Christ are in His will...those under the law of Moses are slaves of sin.

Well, Mitspa, I think I generally agree with you that in Hebrews there is the issue of going back to the law of Moses by Jewish professed Christians at Jerusalem. But look at Heb 10:25 & see if you agree with me that the particular sin in context is forsaking the Christian assembly.

"Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment . . . ."

IMHO the day approaching was the Lord's Day (Domingo for dominus = lord, preserved in Spanish), first day of the week. -- I don't see how persons way back then could see the "Day of the Lord" (tribulation etc.) approaching.

 

[Atwood]

What do you think the fiery indignation is ??????????????
That is being cast into the lake of fire my friend !!!

The text does not say that at all. In Revelation 1-3 we see the Lord Jesus with eyes as a flame of fire confronting the 7 churches of Asia Minor. And we are told in 1 Cor that some are saved, yet as through fire.

If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as through fire. 1 Cor 3. Our God is a flaming fire. The fire devours His adversaries, but not His children. He refines His children.

The Lake of Fire is destructive. But with Christians everything is saving.

 

[Mitspa]

Well, Mitspa, I think I generally agree with you that in Hebrews there is the issue of going back to the law of Moses by Jewish professed Christians at Jerusalem. But look at Heb 10:25 & see if you agree with me that the particular sin in context is forsaking the Christian assembly.

"Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment . . . ."

IMHO the day approaching was the Lord's Day (Domingo for dominus = lord, preserved in Spanish), first day of the week. -- I don't see how persons way back then could see the "Day of the Lord" (tribulation etc.) approaching.

No im sure in context of the whole book of Hebrews...where the whole issue of turning from grace back to the law....is the very issue of the whole book to the "Hebrews"
And the sin of unbelief is the "sin" at issue throughout the whole of the epistle...

Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

 

[Mitspa]

What do you think the fiery indignation is ??????????????

That is being cast into the lake of fire my friend !!!

Yes you are cut-off from Christ...you have fallen from grace you who seek to be justified by the law...this legalism stuff is not a game and many of you will burn in hell for your hypocrisy and rejection of the Spirit of Grace and the Blood of Christ that is the one sacrifice for sins forever!

 

[Mitspa]

Its not even a debatable issue...the "willful" sin of Heb 10 ...is turning back to the law of Moses!

 

[kennethcadwell]

Its not even a debatable issue...the "willful" sin of Heb 10 ...is turning back to the law of Moses!

If you want to continue in that lie, that is the only willful sin that can make you be cast into the lake of fire.
Then I guess the Holy Spirit has no more to say to you through me, about how any sin you put before God and walk in will lead you that way to the fiery indignation !!!

I am dusting my feet off, and moving on from you as the Lord has directed me to do because you just will not open your heart to what you have been shown by scripture............