It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[SeaBass]

False. It is quite possible for a man to profess Christianity without ever having been born again, nor actually trusted Christ as Savior, like many church members (indeed myself before I was saved).

1 John explains this:

"[/FONT][/COLOR]They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they all are not of us."


Read the context. Hebrews 6 describes a professor, not a possessor of salvationl Keep reading through 6:9 where it is explained:

9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Heb 6;6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame

When the Hebrew writer said "If they fall away..." the pronoun 'they' refers to the ones that have been "enlightened", that have "tasted of the heavenly gift", have been "made partakers of the Holy Ghost" and have "tasted the good word of God and the powers of the world to come"

So clearly the Hebrew writer is referring to those in a saved position that can fall away.

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John does NOT say "they were NEVER of us".

You can't prove much by Simon. Peter told him to repent; but the text doesn't say that he did. Hebrews says it is impossible to renew such a one to repentance.

But no matter:
The professed Christian who falls away in Heb 6 is not a saved person, as he is compared to those who are actually saved.

"But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation,"

The man described in Heb 6 did not have the things that accompany salvation.

the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

Acts 8:13 "Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized...

Jesus said in Mk 16:16 he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. So according to Jesus' own words Simon would have been in a saved position or Christ is a liar. Therefore it would make no sense for Peter to command Simon to repent if repentance were impossible for Simon.

 

[homwardbound]

is there any scripture that says we are saved before the end of our lives? or does the scripture say "will be" saved?

We know when we receive:
[h=3]Romans 8:16[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]16 [/SUP]The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

If no confirmation yet, I suggest keep working at it to enter this rest of confirmation, OSAS one knows after that confirmation and quits his works as God has since the foundation on the Seventh day


[h=3]Hebrews 4:1-3[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

4 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

[h=3]Hebrews 4:1-3[/h]Living Bible (TLB)

4 Although God’s promise still stands—his promise that all may enter his place of rest—we ought to tremble with fear because some of you may be on the verge of failing to get there after all. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For this wonderful news—the message that God wants to save us—has been given to us just as it was to those who lived in the time of Moses. But it didn’t do them any good because they didn’t believe it. They didn’t mix it with faith. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For only we who believe God can enter into his place of rest. He has said, “I have sworn in my anger that those who don’t believe me will never get in,” even though he has been ready and waiting for them since the world began.

 

[SeaBass]

Yes, SeaBass,
The Body of Christ is not a business, it is a permanent union with the Son of God in which He is the head and believers are His members. Union and communion.

When will you trust Christ as Savior, be baptized by the Spirit, and become a member of His catholic Church? (1 Cor 12:13)

"And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee."

"For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."

Why not ask Him today to save you and trust Him to do so?

There is no spirit baptism, 1 Cor 12:13 is water baptism that puts a person into the one church of Christ.

If the church at Ephesus was sealed in Eph 1:13 then explained Rev 2:1-7.

 

[GrandHoboMaster]

Brother, how does OSAS deny Christ and our confirmation in the Holy Ghost?
I mean I think you have been confirmed not by man, but by God right, I know I have, and I do not say this arrogantly, I do so in all humility, knowing I do not deserve to be saved, no matter how well I might do

Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: I personally am thankful, by Father's grace and hid Spirit has testified to mine, and I am confident in this aren't you?
This is what OSAS is to me and am thankful, Father has heard my cries and given me his Mercy, as he gives all theirs if they stay steadfast in belief as Paul says:
Colossians 1:21-23

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]21 [/SUP]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled [SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: [SUP]23 [/SUP]if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Brother, regarding to your humility, I would like you to point that acctually the disput not about the OSAS theory, but about the manifested way of applying it to its funs.

Nobody, would argye the verses. Nobody would argue that apostols John and Paul once being saved, always remained saved. As well as the vrious martyrs and saints who proved it by their deaths (not denying Jesus under tortures) and by the miracles done by them during their lives and after their deaths.

You know, in eastern practice of monkery, such personal condition of soul also is known. When hermit reach such true indweling of Holy Spirit, that he become unable to sin (by significant sins). And it is really rare cases, and always them who reached the level were glorified by God by obvious open miracles.

Yes, it is possible.

But we argue, acctually another thing. That Atwood and his co-sectants, (using the true verses and the true rare cases), are manifesting themselves as persons who reached such level of sanctifity, due to their primitive refers to ACCEPTING JESUS WITH ALL HEART.

And they not only show in this their radical indecency and arrogancy. But also are trying to peach such imagenary easiest way to salvation, through attempts to recruit anyone in that sect of SYN = SAVE YOURSELF NOW.

Not a single monk (neither saint) who ever reached the level of sanctifity proclaimed himself as a surely saved person (besides the apostol, who was inspired to that by Spirit).

Cause indiscretion and the true Holy Spirit indwelling are always inconsistent!!!

Could you also would argue the verses: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’ Matthew 4:7

Are you absolutely sure, that Atwood and all who agreed and accepted the illussion (the personal claim of being saved already) will not deny Jesus under tortures????

If the manifested and preached by them short way to salvation were really work, we would be seing great number of wonderworkers out of their community, like in the times of apostols.

But it (such applying of OSAS to themselves) is obviously a work of Satan, by which he tries to catch easily-trusted souls in privitive trap of the illusive selfdeception, which directed in hell.

 

[homwardbound]

Don't ya get it bro?

the word truly means nothing

the word eternal means nothing.

It is all just a whisper God made hoping no one would actually hear him. Because he really wanted them to work hard to earn it.

Personally I worked very hard to enter this rest of God from God. And came to the end of that hard stressed out worry and saw from Father it is by belief in God alone by Christ and have since entered as in:
Looking back to the cross not forward to it as when King David wrote this scripture seeing afar off as to that great day of Christ whom he put his Faith in, as many First Testament Saints did
[h=3]Psalm 100:4[/h]Living Bible (TLB)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Go through his open gates with great thanksgiving; enter his courts with praise. Give thanks to him and bless his name.

[h=3]Psalm 100:4[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Enter into his gates with thanksgiving,
and into his courts with praise:
be thankful unto him, and bless his name.

 

[phil112]

There is no spirit baptism, 1 Cor 12:13 is water baptism that puts a person into the one church of Christ.

If the church at Ephesus was sealed in Eph 1:13 then explained Rev 2:1-7.

Water baptism is merely an outward indicator of the inner cleansing done by the soul cleansing blood of Christ. To get saved, the only requirement is to believe. See the other thread for that. No reason to duplicate everything on this board.

 

[phil112]

Personally I worked very hard to enter this rest of God from God. ..............

That isn't what got you there.

 

[homwardbound]

O s a s is not a biblical doctrine it doesnt coincide with the apostles theology we are suppose to be one mind one spirit , now o s a s is heressy and i can say this as to say it teaches a spiritual slothfullness that leads into darkness , my advice pray and fast till you hear God then you will be ministered in the right direction since you dont take sound advice

That is your interpretation of OSAS, and for me not mine as I have said, are you confirmed, only you know and are on your way to this:
[h=3]Romans 8:16[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]16 [/SUP]The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

So seek God out for this if not confirmed by God in this truth Brother
Mercy over sacrifice is might what we need to learn, do not know, just saying your free choice, I think you are and might noi be aware of this OSAS, for Father said Father will never leave you or forsake you, so either you beleive or one does not
And it takes total belief, where there were Ten lepers, all ten healed in flesh/ And how many came back to Christ in belief to be whole in Spirit and truth, and how many went on into the world to drink, carouse and use this healed flesh to their own destruction?
To those that came back, did he not say they were now, right then made whole?

 

[Cassian]

The beginning and the end is God's Word. What humans in the Church said later is not God's Word; it is human tradition, which the Lord condemned as a substitute for God's Word. The Word of God is clear enough so that we are responsible. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

I then must assume you are not human.
But if you are, then every word you state is extra biblical and not valid. As you say, it is condemned as
a substitute for God's word.
You also surely have not proven that God's word is clear. If it was clear there would not be thousands of interpretations. History and reality make that statement nonsensical. And don't forget all the commentaries that try to spell out what it means.

 

[homwardbound]

A believer can fall away and be lost forever if he dies in his sins and never seeks forgiveness but any believer can be regenerated lest he perish beforehand

A believer can't or won't fall away, not from Father ever Brother.
those that left were not ever saved to begin with, having the wrong motives to being saved, could not hack it out in the sufferings that do come to our flesh. Could not stand through these sufferings.
They tasted, they played Church, but it did not pan out to what they wanted here in this life here and now. So they walked as this is still going today
Read Heb. 5:11-6:6 and ask God to permit you to understand this, as I think you have already, time to be revealed God will never let you go, and never keep you by force, it is by God's kindness that one walks as he walked here on earth

 

[SeaBass]

SeaBass, Calvin is irrelevant; it is the Word of God that is relevant. You may as well accuse anyone who teaches the Trinity to be promoting Calvinism, since Calvin believed in the Trinity.

I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Not one of those verses you refer to have eternal security in them, for eternal security is forced into them.

1 Jn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

"Believe" is present tense active voice. One of his own will chooses to believe and one of his own will can choose to quit believing and those that quit believing can know that will not have eternal life.


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Rom 8:38,39 Paul is speaking of things EXTERNAL to the Christian for the Christian can remove himself from the love of God, therefore Jude commands "keep yourselves in the love of God" Jude 1:21

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Phil 1:5 For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now;

Paul's confidence in God in verse 6 is because those Philippian Christians remaining faithfully in the gospel. Eternal security is not in the context but is added and perverts the text.

 

[homwardbound]

hmmm my bible doesn't read like that. Romans 8:24 says "are saved" not "were saved"
Ephesians 2:8 says "are ye saved" not "we were saved" Titus 3:5 however does state "He saved us" that is past tense.

Maybe read all these in context and see what it was talking about at the time it was written, asking God for the microscope into the depths
[h=3]Ephesians 3:16-18[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]16 [/SUP]that he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; [SUP]17 [/SUP]that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, [SUP]18 [/SUP]may be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

 

[SeaBass]

Not if he wanted to have the church grow in terms of # and $.
Seriously eternal security has to be preached to church under persecution, very much like Judah under siege when Habakkuk almost doubted his faith.

His preaching eternal security was harming that congregation.

 

[Cassian]

You are not asked to prove a negative, unless you believe one! I challenge you if you deny my POV of scripture, that you bring any document which is commonly and readily available to man and prove it is God's Word. If something beside the Bible is Gods word, you should know what it is, if you believe such. So I put it to you that you must accept that the Bible is the only such document or prove that something else also is.

"My sheep hear My voice." that proves that the Sheep recognize the shepherd's voice. And obviously if they recognize it they will respond. There could be no issue of obeying God's word if it were obtuse.

"And he said unto them, O foolish men, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!

Psalm 119 has a long exposition on the Word of God -- never is the thought entertained that a believer in God could not understand His word.



I cannot be sure of this, but you know what I think Cassian, I don't think you ever read the Bible even once, yet you dare to state what the Bible does not say.

I have just shown you that it is found in scripture that the scripture is to be obeyed. It is theopneustos, God-breathed, and profitable for teaching to the man of God.

I have posted you scripture upon scripture on eternal security. You are responsible now for this knowledge.

You go on and on just saying things. Save yourself the effort. Either prove it from the Bible or realize it is regarded as hot air.



Utter nonsense. Many individual prophets received God's word, as for example John in Revelation, and Elijah in the wilderness.



You do go on, no Bible proof at all. Just you saying things. They are useless.

There is not any moral, external code of salvation>

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.

Referring to Ignatius proves nothing, and I know of no proof for your AD 60 theory.

You have been given abundant evidence for the doctrine of eternal security. You really don't believe in a Savior. And thus it would appear that you have no membership in the Body of Christ.

You have given ONLY evidence of a man derived theory, a false supposition imposed on scripture. It is your man derived tradition that you are holding as your gospel. You are certainly welcome to believe whatever you desire, but man will never change the Gospel of Christ. Man made traditions will continue unabated to be competitors with yours and make the Bible even more worthless than it is at present within the sola scriptura milieu. The reality of its influence is abundant, especially within the US.

 

[homwardbound]

Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? [SUP]18 [/SUP]And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

why would Jesus answer this man with commandments?

Were these not the commandments of love, and when one seeks out to do this finds they can't. So one is prayerfully annihilated, and seeks to see God's love fisrst before one can love as God I see no other way to truthfully love as God does

1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.

so then maybe we can start to see the:
[h=3]Ephesians 3:16-18[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]16 [/SUP]that he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; [SUP]17 [/SUP]that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, [SUP]18 [/SUP]may be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

 

[Cassian]

Well Cassian, it is nice to have some agreement with you!

However, your last shot at Protestants is erroneous. Neither can you prove that one.

Would you like to trust Christ as Savior and enter the Body of Christ?
How shall we escape if we neglect so great salvation.

Philosophical ideas and creations of man is not a substitute for the Real Body of Christ.

 

[Alligator]

is there any scripture that says we are saved before the end of our lives? or does the scripture say "will be" saved?

Don't ya get it bro?

the word truly means nothing

the word eternal means nothing.

It is all just a whisper God made hoping no one would actually hear him. Because he really wanted them to work hard to earn it.

Matthew 24:13

 

[homwardbound]

You are all celebrities! See, 47 persons reading this thread! They're interested in what you have to say!


You are all famous!


Keep fighting the fight for Christ! Keep fighting your fellow Christians!

Divide the kingdom even more!!!
1 Corinthians 1:10-17
Matthew 12:25


Fight!


Lets chunk a few more bible verses and copy-and-pasted articles into this 100 mile long thread!!!

I would do it myself, but you are all already doing a terrific career at it!

Fight! Fight!
1 Corinthians 9:27

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!

Fight Fight Fight!!!

The fight my Brother is:
Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

And we are not to fight back with the flesh accusations to one another, but to admonish and help one another, why:
Romans 8:1
There is therefore now nocondemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[homwardbound]

Dont you understand , let me speak to you plainly the flesh strives against the spirit therefore it is natural to feel objected to the righteous ways of God , but instead let me bless you that you may see what liberation feels like , before i go explaini.g , i need go ask you a question , have you received the Holy Spirit gift ?

out of all the gifts from God through the Holy Spirit, which one is the most important? seeing how you did not specify the gift?

 

[SeaBass]

If the inheritance is incorruptible and does not fade away, it is eternal and not something one loses. If it were, it would not be salvation at all, but a chance at it.

The inheritance is incourrptible and fades not away whether I have possession of it or not. It is still incorruptible and fades not away even if I lose the promise of it.

They Christians are kept. The fact that faith is a means does not negate the fact of the keeping.

Rev 2:10 says nothing about being saved, but about getting a crown, a reward -- like even the martyr's crown. Rewards come from works; salvation is secured by faith alone. and it doesn't fade away.

Christians are kept CONDITIONALLY through faith. So if a Christian turns from the faith he is no longer kept. Now do you want to make the ridiculous argument like Stanley that one can still be saved while a faithless/graceless/reprobate.

Stanley is not the standard, it is the word of God. God's people cannot disbelieve or stop being His people. But to stop believing is impossible. And to disbelieve would prove they never believed. So I can't agree completely with this out of context quote.

As to the other quotes (for which I know not the context):

I find no where in the Bible that says that a believer can become an unbeliever. I do read that if one believes he will not perish, but have everlasting life. So I don't agree with your other quotes. If a man does not believe, it is that he never believed. 1 John & Heb 6 speak of apostasy, as by those who never were of us -- and their departure shows that --, and as by those who did not have the things that accompany salvation (6:9).

Face the Word of God; don't worry about Stanley.

"To those who are called, beloved in God the Father and kept for Jesus Christ "

If eternal security were true, then what Stanley said would be true as ridiculous as it is.

You do not seem to understand that eternal security says salvation is UNCONDITIONAL, that salvation cannot be lost under ANY condition including even losing one's faith.

No verse say it is impossible for a Christian to quit believing. Verses show people believe according to their own volition and therefore can quit believing according to their own volition. Verses as Heb 3:12 warn about going into unbelief, departing from God