It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[Deadtosin]

well that is to bad. If you read the context. that is what he is talking about. The end times tribulation. Not eternal life.

You will be delivered up to tribulation, and hated by all men, BUT HE WHO ENDURES will be saved.

They will want to kill you. You are warned, so you have the ability and strength to endure.

why did you add the word tribulation?

[SUP]12 [/SUP]And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

that's like saying "the same who survives the wreck shall survive"

what?

What is so hard to understand?

There will be great tribulation

You will be hated, hunted down. They will try to force you to take the mark of the beast. they will mock you, beat you, want to kill you. But do not be distressed. I will come and put a stop to it and set up my kingdom. If you endure until i return (the end) You will be saved, I will save you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

A person believes what they want to believe, and a mountain of evidence to the contrary will not change their mind.

yep, as you prove every day

You still have eternal life, which is a gift of God, needing to be earned? (Thus not a gift) or have you decided to come to the truth an dmake th ebible agree, not contradict?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Farouk the church is still there at that verse. That is in verse 13, he has much to say after that regarding, be not deceived, false christs.. etc..

he is talking to us also. And everyone who reads it, He is telling whoever is partaking in those events to endure to the end, If they do. i will save you at my return.

It is not talking about you right here and right now working to earn your salvation by enduring to the end of your life.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

you do realize that every word you just responded to and tore apart were verses of the bible?

so I should be like you and rip apart eph 1 and 2?

I should be like you and say I am not working to earn my salvation. But In the same breath say I have to work hard to endure to the end, to put my body under submission, or I will lose my salvation?

Your the one ripping apart the bible my friend.

 

[Deadtosin]

what?

What is so hard to understand?

There will be great tribulation

You will be hated, hunted down. They will try to force you to take the mark of the beast. they will mock you, beat you, want to kill you. But do not be distressed. I will come and put a stop to it and set up my kingdom. If you endure until i return (the end) You will be saved, I will save you.

Why can't it mean, the same who holds fast and doesn't deny Him or accept the mark will be saved spiritually?

 

[MidniteWelder]

yep. But you not only have to admit your sin to yourself and God. God tells us to confess our sins to our brothers so they can help us overcome and disciple us.

If your in legalism, you will never do this, you will hide your sin (unless it is some sin you think is so little, it is not worth judging over)

I have seen this happen over and over.

A person who believes in osas has no fear of judgment, he is free to go confess his sin to his brother. And he will get help, and not fade away.

well no, I'm not into legalism according to your perception as a means of salvation EG
But there comes a point in ones relationship with the Lord where we can progress past the point of preaching the message of
Im a sinner and Im always gonna sin because Im not perfect and am gonna fail anyway so yeah"
This is merely stating the obvious so that people without eyes to see can have their eyes opened to see their sin to be able to admit, confess and be corrected.
That last part be corrected every bit as important as the first part of admitting.
admitting doe4snt free one from judgement
admitting doesnt make the sin ok
accepting one is a sinner doesn't make it ok.

Progressing and preaching and following the example of Christ by preaching the message of go and sin no more once your eyes are opened to sin is NOT LEGALISM.

It is sharpening of another as iron sharpens iron.
We help our brothers to NOT fall again.
Not to accept their sin to become complacent.

You may preach the message of acceptance of sin if you wish
I will continue preaching the message of Christ of after repenting to go and sin no more.
If that is legalistic....you're more than welcome to bring Jesus before the stand and sue him for legalism.
Sound good?

 

[Deadtosin]

so I should be like you and rip apart eph 1 and 2?

I should be like you and say I am not working to earn my salvation. But In the same breath say I have to work hard to endure to the end, to put my body under submission, or I will lose my salvation?

Your the one ripping apart the bible my friend.

I'm ripping apart the bible because I'm using it? I'm not the one who said put my body under subjection lest I be a castaway.

You attacked using the word "I" argue with the apostles, I'm done. TC

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I confess my sins to my brethren. I don't fear their judgement and I don't subscribe to OSAS

you do? What kind of sins?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

why did you add the word tribulation?

[SUP]12 [/SUP]And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

your not posting the whole passage again. He is talking about the end. What is the end?

read vs 15 - 22.. Why do you people continue to leave out parts of passages and think you understand them?

The context of the whole passage is the disciples asking what are the signs of the end of the age, and the sign of his comming. You have to put that in context when you read the passage, you can not just rip a few verses out of scripture because they seem to support your belief. it does not work that way.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why can't it mean, the same who holds fast and doesn't deny Him or accept the mark will be saved spiritually?

because he is not talking about eternal life.

Because he would be contradicting himself when he says he who beleieves in him will life forever, never die, never hunger, HAS eternal life, and will be risen BY HIM on the last day.

You do understand the ONLY way you can save yourself and deserve eternal life is perfect obedience to the law do you not? How well have you done that?

 

[Apostol2013]

We must be aware of the truth , and answer me , what is the truth christ our Lord came to deliver ? Besides the holy sprinking of blood on Golgotha . The truth is He came not to testify on his own behalf but of the Father wich is spirit and wr know that the spirit is undefiled andpure and we as the body of christ we are the temple of the holy Spirit and not to be joined to a harlot as sin

 

[eternally-gratefull]

well no, I'm not into legalism according to your perception as a means of salvation EG
But there comes a point in ones relationship with the Lord where we can progress past the point of preaching the message of
Im a sinner and Im always gonna sin because Im not perfect and am gonna fail anyway so yeah"
This is merely stating the obvious so that people without eyes to see can have their eyes opened to see their sin to be able to admit, confess and be corrected.
That last part be corrected every bit as important as the first part of admitting.
admitting doe4snt free one from judgement
admitting doesnt make the sin ok
accepting one is a sinner doesn't make it ok.

Progressing and preaching and following the example of Christ by preaching the message of go and sin no more once your eyes are opened to sin is NOT LEGALISM.

It is sharpening of another as iron sharpens iron.
We help our brothers to NOT fall again.
Not to accept their sin to become complacent.

You may preach the message of acceptance of sin if you wish
I will continue preaching the message of Christ of after repenting to go and sin no more.
If that is legalistic....you're more than welcome to bring Jesus before the stand and sue him for legalism.
Sound good?

Dude, Stop your false accusations against me. I am not preaching acceptance of sin. How can I say we are to go to our brother to confess our sin, How can I say if we see a brother in sin we should confront them of there sin (all things which I have said TODAY) and you claim I am saying it is ok to sin.

You people drive me crazy, No wonder there are so many fights, YOU DO NOT LISTEN TO A WORD ANYONE SAYS!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

can any of you LAWyers explain what James is talking about in this verse. do you understand what he means??

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

 

[Atwood]

can any of you LAWyers explain what James is talking about in this verse. do you understand what he means??

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

Well, EG, I don't wish to claim the name of LAWyer, but I will insert that this verse indicates that we are in hot water. We had best confess our guilt to our Attorney, then trust in our Attorney to handle our case in court. I know this Attorney who has never lost a case.


And if any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: and he is the propitiation for our sins;

 

[chubbena]

The premise of once saved always saved is on faith. The faith that is always in Christ, that trusts in every word from His mouth, that is not moved by trials and temptations, that always produces good deeds.
It becomes a doctrine from the devil when the faith isreplaced by this trendy lip service garden variety type which one lives in between holiness and sinfulness, picks, chooses and interprets the bible based on personal preferences rather than His word.

 

[MidniteWelder]

Dude, Stop your false accusations against me. I am not preaching acceptance of sin. How can I say we are to go to our brother to confess our sin, How can I say if we see a brother in sin we should confront them of there sin (all things which I have said TODAY) and you claim I am saying it is ok to sin.

You people drive me crazy, No wonder there are so many fights, YOU DO NOT LISTEN TO A WORD ANYONE SAYS!

yes, that is true. But you still have your flesh, and will still fail.
as John said, if you say you have no sin, you decieve yourself and their is no truth in you.
thus you will always be deserving of eternal judgment, even on your best day.
why can't you see this?

Sorry if it appears I have presented a false accusation.
The above statement of we still have flesh and will still fail looks like acceptance of sin by nature of the statement.
what is impossible with man is possible with God...do you believe this
yes or no
When Christ told people to go and sin no more do you believe he was asking something impossible of ourselves but possible through him
yes or no
Or do you believe we're destined to keep on sinning carrying out a self fulfilled prophecy through power of suggestion by being taught we are all sinners and fall short as if we are called to keep falling short though after tasting of the Glory of God
If the answer is yes to this last question....this is the reason for disagreements among us.
Presenting Excuses
I dont agree with excuses to sin.W
Why not?
Glad you didnt ask but I'll tell ya anyhow
We have a choice and have heard his message and know our sin by the law and therefore have no excuse.
Sorry if this upsets you by what I have said. I didn't mean to bring you down, just to re-evaluate what is being said.
I personally would never want anybody to tell me it's ok that I have sinned simply because I am still in the flesh.
Forgiven and to not do it again..yes

I don't see the not doing it again being preached often enough.
What I see more is merely stating the obvious..that we are sinners.
But to accept my sin to then possibly lend the chance to reason within my own mind that I may do it again because I have the option to repent and ask forgiveness again...while it may be true...still in my opinion isn't the most noble of options.
Does that make sense?
What about the message of we don't have to sin because we have been freed from its bondage by our redeemer.
I hope you can understand.
If you already know this and that's what you meant to say....please finish your sentences with it then after first stating the obvious of we are all sinners.
Then there should be no further arguments.
God Bless

 

[Atwood]

I'm ripping apart the bible because I'm using it? I'm not the one who said put my body under subjection lest I be a castaway.
TC

Good morning, Dead;
Are you grateful today?

Now let's look at that verse in 1 Cor 9 in context.

"And every man that striveth in the games exerciseth self-control in all things. Now they do it to receive a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. I therefore so run, as not uncertainly; so fight I, as not beating the air: but I buffet my body, and bring it into bondage: lest by any means, after that I have preached to others, I myself should be disqualified."

Ye Olde Buffet (non Warren) text. How many Christians buffet [buffáy] their bodies at the restaurant, and how many are giving themselves black eyes? Note the word "crown." Crown in the Bible in a figure of speech for rewards that Christians get at the Bema, Judgment Seat of Christ. There are about 5 of them mentioned in the NT. The passage is about getting crowns or being disqualified from crowns, not salvation. At the Judgment Seat of Christ Christians' works are judged. The "wood, hay, and stubble" is burned up (not the Christian). No reward for disqualified works.

I don't know what "castaway" meant to the KJV translators, but in modern English it is a misleading translation for adokimos.

 

[GrandHoboMaster]

Thats sad.

God said you can be saved right now. Possess eternal life right now.

Why won;t you trust God and stop trusting self. You will never be good enough to earn salvation or eternal life. No matter how hard you try.

Your perverted heretical illussion, does not save you, but makes you exactly to be destined for the terrible dissapointment in the day of final judgement.

You are preaching among others the salvtion without proper garments, while you youself know nothing how soul is to be reached salvation = through the alikeness to the Lord God here (during the life) by gathering His energies and His Spirit.

Only idiots could follow your teaching - that is direct way into the outer darkness.

 

[Atwood]

When Christ told people to go and sin no more do you believe he was asking something impossible of ourselves but possible through him

If you quote from John 8, the Woman Taken in Adultery story, you quote from an apocryphal story not part of the Bible, inserted into John (and elsewhere) in some manuscripts, not the oldest manuscripts.

The Lord demands perfection of us: "Ye shall be perfect." The demand is there, but we will not fulfill it in this life. At any moment it is possible for a Christian to not-sin, to have perfect behavior as he walks by the Spirit. But the Christian does not fulfill this over any great length of time (in many ways we all stumble).

I dont agree with excuses to sin.

Nonetheless, you will sin.

What about the message of we don't have to sin because we have been freed from its bondage by our redeemer.

That message would be a lie. In many ways we all stumble. If we say that we have no Sin, we deceive ourselves. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Do you trust the Lord Jesus to get you to Heaven? If not, do so today.