It was unfair to mankind

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Feb 5, 2015
84
3
8
#41
I
The Bible says that the angels always behold the face of the Father for the little ones, for babies are born innocent with no sin on their record, and are protected spiritually.

That is because the sin of Adam is not applied to us for that is his sin, and we are not responsible for the sins of other people, for everybody will bear their own sins.

It would of never entered Adam and Eve's mind to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil unless an outside source tempted them, so God allowed Satan to tempt Eve, which she said that they could not eat of the tree because that is all she could think and know, but Satan tempted her that if she ate of the tree she would be greater than her current position, and she sinned, and then Eve was the outside source that tempted Adam by showing him she did not die, and Adam sinned.

When Adam and Eve ate of the tree then they had a choice between good and evil, so all their offspring would then be born with a choice, and Eve is the mother of all living.

It is choice that we inherited, and Adam and Eve were created knowing God, but all their offspring are born with a choice, so they are born not knowing God, so they will do evil before they do good to repent of their sins, and follow God..

So we all have sinned, done the act of sin, and come short of the glory of God.

Which babies are born innocent because Adam and Eve's sin does not affect them, and they have not done the act of a sin, but will do evil before they repent and follow God, so everybody ends up a sinner in need of salvation.

But it is not our fault for us being born in which we will do evil for it cannot be avoided for we are born not knowing God, but there still is no excuse for when we get older we still have to do good for we know to do good.

Which creation testifies of a God that created all things, and of His attributes, which one of them is love of people, for He provided food, and the means to make clothing, and shelter, so the world is without excuse, and testifies of the 2 greatest laws, love God, and love people.

So the 2 greatest laws are known whether a person has heard the word of God, or not.
I do believe that babies are innocent yes, but of personal sin for they are not capable of doing any wrong. But why are they then still dying if they are sinless. Death shouldn't have affect on tem who is sinless. They would be like Christ He could NOT die coz He NEVER sinned, therefore H had to lay down His life by freewill
 
Feb 5, 2015
84
3
8
#42
where do you get that teaching from?

sounds like some kind of misunderstanding of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil

anyway, you are wrong :giggle:



how can all have sinned if there was no law? explain that

I mean you are staring right at the fact that sin entered by one man...Adam...not knowledge

can't make this up :cautious:
The Law of God was in the world long b4 it was given on 2 tables of stone. Just think 4 moment, Cain. If the Law of "thou shalt not kill", did not existed, why was God bringing Can b4 trial? If we look carefully we'll see that God gave He Laws and it was transferred orally and implanted in the conscience, The Law of Conscience. S where is the Law now since the 2 Table of Stone doesn't exist anymore? Its written upon the Tables of the Heart. The Command of the Sabbath originated long b4 it was written the 2 Table of Stone. I can definately show the commands b4 it was given on the Holy Mount
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
3,025
1,167
113
#43
I

I do believe that babies are innocent yes, but of personal sin for they are not capable of doing any wrong. But why are they then still dying if they are sinless. Death shouldn't have affect on tem who is sinless. They would be like Christ He could NOT die coz He NEVER sinned, therefore H had to lay down His life by freewill
Unfortunately our own sin does affect other people including children who have no concept of sin. For example, Cains sin affected Abel.. well he killed Abel didnt he. Abel would have lived a lot longer had cain not killed him. Im just thinking simplistically, yes its unfair but sin is unfair as it affects not just ourselves but everyone around us, we can be sinned against. Sin pollutes and corrupts everything around us, so even if we ourselves are sinless in deed we are breathing polluted air of other sinners everyday. And probably unwittingly contributing to the sinful world in ways we arent aware of.
This is why Jesus crucifixtion is so shocking because Jesus did nothing wrong. he did everything right. And yet he was still punished and condemened. But he willingly paid the sin of others...his life for ours. In Heaven there will be no sin and everything will be perfect as it was the days before the fall.
 

Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
709
396
63
#44
I do believe that babies are innocent yes, but of personal sin for they are not capable of doing any wrong. But why are they then still dying if they are sinless. Death shouldn't have affect on tem who is sinless. They would be like Christ He could NOT die coz He NEVER sinned, therefore He had to lay down His life by freewill
Brother,
Jesus defined life differently than we normally think of life.

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Jn.11:25-26

Later, they died physically, but if we know Jesus, we have already been raised to life and can never die. Also, Jesus called people dead we normally think of as being alive (Mt.8:22). I think we as babies are all born into this world spiritually alive, but as time goes by, we fall by the knowledge of good and evil. Paul said,

For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. Rom.7:9
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
7,258
2,849
113
#45
The Law of God was in the world long b4 it was given on 2 tables of stone. Just think 4 moment, Cain. If the Law of "thou shalt not kill", did not existed, why was God bringing Can b4 trial? If we look carefully we'll see that God gave He Laws and it was transferred orally and implanted in the conscience, The Law of Conscience. S where is the Law now since the 2 Table of Stone doesn't exist anymore? Its written upon the Tables of the Heart. The Command of the Sabbath originated long b4 it was written the 2 Table of Stone. I can definately show the commands b4 it was given on the Holy Mount
oh for pete sakes :rolleyes:

if we look carefully we will see that we have our sins forgiven by the sinless spotless Lamb of God...also written before the foundation of the world

but you can carry those stone tablets around with you if you wish. quite a burden though I would think
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
2,835
1,979
113
#47
More sabbatarian doctrine from gerjozen. Oy vey!

Look, there is nothing "moral" about the sabbath, lets make that clear.
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
7,258
2,849
113
#48
16 Parents are not to be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their parents; each will die for their own sin
the famous Deuteronomy 24 verse twisted and inserted as exhibit A by people in this thread who believe knowledge is the originator of sin

of course we are all responsible for our sin as Romans states. however the concept of sin is not the sins people commit, but the very NATURE of the individual and that is another reason your reasoning is so terribly faulted. I am sure you do not understand that at all or you would not come up with such...excuse me...dribble in the first place

ALL HAVE SINNED AND COME SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD 3:23

there is no connection to the Deut 24:16 verse with regards to the entrance of sin into the world. the entrance of sin is all explained in Genesis

think what you want, but your teaching is aberrant and unbiblical.

just come back and read this post every time you are desirous of arguing with me about it :cool:
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
7,258
2,849
113
#49
Already fits my view. Here it is again,

The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. Eze.18:20

Go ahead, explain it.

I just did. at my own desire to do so

post 48

you do not understand plain and simple things it seems and have to create untenable content that is not biblical

and keep reading post 48 every time you wish to once again 'challenge' the cough cough stupido and unlearned folks

so so tired of the weird doctrines presented by people who think the rest of us are clueless

or maybe I need more sleep :LOL::ROFL::LOL:
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
7,258
2,849
113
#50
My assessment was valid.......his words were clear and there is no indication he was speaking of a far different time.....and regardless.....the point in and of it's self is VALID....NO ONE gets a second chance after death........David SEEING his SON and GOING to HIM again proves the point.....the child was innocent, had no ability to make conscience decision and was safe under the blood.....and for the record...I have lost two children myself to muscular dystrophy

yeah. I always think of that one too.

I know someone who thinks all babies go to hell but if you kill yourself and were a Christian, you will be met at the pearly gates

makes my head go o_O
 

Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
709
396
63
#51
16
ALL HAVE SINNED AND COME SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD 3:23
Not babies and children. All, meaning not just Jews who were given the law, but gentiles by conscience of right and wrong. Try reading the whole chapter.
 

Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
709
396
63
#52
I just did. at my own desire to do so

post 48

you do not understand plain and simple things it seems and have to create untenable content that is not biblical

and keep reading post 48 every time you wish to once again 'challenge' the cough cough stupido and unlearned folks

so so tired of the weird doctrines presented by people who think the rest of us are clueless

or maybe I need more sleep :LOL::ROFL::LOL:
No you need to wake up, because Paul plainly said to both Jews and gentiles,

Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who will render to every man according to his deeds. To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life, but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Rom.2:1-8

every man shall be put to death for his own sin. Deu.24:16
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
3,025
1,167
113
#53
The judgement of God is a different thing from the judgement of men.
Example, Jesus crucifixtion, he was falsely accused and put to death. That was mans judgement. He had a trial and people judged him guilty of crimes he didnt commit. He didnt even have a jury.

Yet Gods judgement of Jesus was not death, it was raising him to life and giving him the right to the throne in Heaven. He also used his blood on the mercy seat to obtain redemption for all mankind. Now not all mankind will accept this, but those who believe and written in the book of life will receive their reward. Those who dont will be judged. It will seem like us saints will be judging at Gods judgement too, we will be on the jury as it were at the end of time.

I am sure there is a passage on this about the twelve apsotles sitting on the thrones judging. The thing is they will have righteous judgement not, as often in the case of the world, unrigteous or unfair judgement.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
3,025
1,167
113
#54
See Matthew 19:28 and also Luke 22:30
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
7,258
2,849
113
#55
No you need to wake up, because Paul plainly said to both Jews and gentiles,

Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who will render to every man according to his deeds. To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life, but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Rom.2:1-8

every man shall be put to death for his own sin. Deu.24:16

post 48

last post to you
 

TheLearner

Active member
Jan 14, 2019
983
243
43
#56
I believe it is more likely that babies get saved.....

God can even reach us in the womb.....


luke 1
41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.



I say it is unfair to Christ that He had to come do what we could not.... and then pay what we can not... to give us what we don't deserve.....


and even now we need Him desperately to justify us because without Him we deserve punishment for much more than just 1 sin
If God can reach one in the womb, why can't he reach someone after death?
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
#57
If God can reach one in the womb, why can't he reach someone after death?
His rules. Not mine.

as for if He could... lol ya
He is all powerful



I'm not even saying He would NEED to reach them in the womb... only gave an example of how great He is

and there is no reason to just assume babies go to hell or the lake of fire

(which the OP seemed to imply... maybe i misunderstood him)


either way...

God is more than fair
He is merciful
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
40,744
13,079
113
#58
yeah. I always think of that one too.

I know someone who thinks all babies go to hell but if you kill yourself and were a Christian, you will be met at the pearly gates

makes my head go o_O
Wisdom is justified of her children hey.............
 

Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
709
396
63
#59
post 48

last post to you
Brother, I answered your post 48. I once believed what you still do. The title of this thread would be true if that was the case, but it's not. The truth is, "It was unfair to God."

Jesus came preaching repentance, because he freely forgives people who ask and forsake their sins.

I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Lk.13:3

He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy. Pro.28:13

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. Gal.1:8
 
Dec 9, 2011
11,057
857
113
#60