It's Not My Salvation I'm Fretting Over

[p_rehbein]

Thanks for your response...........and God bless you and yours. Just getting my morning coffee. I will surely respond, and I will SURELY be respectful and give serious thought to your comments.

Did you read through my 4 PAGES?

just wondering........

Let me get my brain working, and I'll be back to this........

 

[p_rehbein]

Whew.....this is gonna take some time........gotta study the differences between: "doulos" and "diakonos"

and I ain't no linguist........... But, gonna give it a shot

 

[p_rehbein]

ADDRESSING MY FIRST COMMENT:

Regarding free will........Jesus said:

Luke 22:41) And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed, 42) Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. 43) And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. 44) And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

[Jesus was clearly struggling with His choice to do God's will, and not His own...He had a choice, and He chose to do God's will. This is also shown in the 6th Chapter of John]

38) For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

[Again, it is shown in the 26th Chapter of Matthew]

51) And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear. 52) Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. 53) Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? 54) But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

[He chose to do God's will.....He was not forced]

[He also taught that we had the ability to choose]

John 14:14: If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. 15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 3:15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[we have a choice to believe in Christ, or not, and He shows that some choose to and some choose not to]

18) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19) And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

[Another clear example of mans ability to choose}

Joshua 24:15) And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

To end this part for now, let me say that the saddest example of the exercise of free will in Scripture is Lucifer himself, and the angels who chose to follow him rather than God........

[Next comment, I will address your first comment......... ]

 

[p_rehbein]

REGARDING YOUR COMMENT:

Bondservant

One reference............

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0g...ant.html/RK=2/RS=x03PCQnz9NYDx3Bmr1iYQxOyhFM-


Reading through several Sites, the above one most favors your position, so I am using it. One think I will say is that there does not appear to be a concensus on what the exact definition (in Greek) of bondservant is. It can and does have several meanings.....so, that makes it difficult to state completely what it means. Well, for me anyway. Both James and Jude also identified themselves as bondservants of Christ. (fyi)

And, yes, as with Paul, they did freely choose to become a disciple/Apostle of Jesus, and to remain such for life. This, however, does not negate their free will. It simply reveals their deep love for and faith in Christ, and their mature state as Christians. There is no doubt these three (as with others) were Spiritual Christians, able to feast on the meat of the Word of God.

In the Article (linked) it shows, and I agree, that Jesus seeks for His disciples to be more than a bondservant, He seeks for them to become brothers, and even stated such...... "this is My brother, my sister, my mother..."

(excerpt)

In addition, Paul's most personal letter, the letter to Philemon, offers the most direct discussion of slavery in the New Testament. When the runaway slave Onesimus became a Christian, Paul sent this letter with him to return to his master. Paul wrote, "For this perhaps is why he was parted from you for a while, that you might have him back forever, no longer as a bondservant but more than a bondservant, as a beloved brother—especially to me, but how much more to you, both in the flesh and in the Lord" (Philemon 1:15-16). He clearly noted that the bondservant and his owner were brothers and of equal status before God. Further, Paul told Philemon to "receive him as you would receive me" (Philemon 1:17). How would Philemon be expected to receive Paul? As a fellow believer, treated with respect. Paul indirectly suggests giving Onesimus his freedom (verse 18). Tradition records that Onesimus later became a church leader.

(end excerpt)

I do not read, nor do I see where God forced Paul, or James, or Jude to become His children and to believe in and be disciples of Christ, and servants of God doing His will. The will which He purposed them for.

(now, this is gonna get into what I have said for years here on CC, and it has pretty much been completely ignored)

What I see are three Christians whose faith is so strong, and they have matured so greatly in the Faith, and their love grown so vast for Christ/God that they, themselves, could never imagine turning away from the service of Christ, and their backs on God. These three were not just saved, they were Sanctified (filled with the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, Justified and Sealed. That is far different than a new believer who is surely saved, but still only able to sup on milk, and still a Carnal Christian as Paul described them. One such group were the Galatians.....

Newly saved believers do not yet always have the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, and these believers are in grave danger of being "bewitched" and led astray (back to their former sinful lives) by the raven wolves that enter into the Congregation to do just that. For these Carnal Christians, O.S.A.S. can, and I beleve, is a false sense fo security. Until they grow, and learn, and mautre in the Word and their life walk with Christ and become infilled with the Holy Spirit allowing them to be Sanctified (Spiritual) Christians, they can be led astray.

I believe these are those both Christ and Paul spoke of concerning the great falling away. Some want to say it was the servants of the deceiver who had entered in amongst the believers, but they are identified as such, thus can not be those Christ and Paul were speaking of. The ones these servants of the deceiver lead astray are the ones who best fit the statements of both Christ and Paul (which he warned the Galatians of) in my opinion.

Now, I have said for many years here that O.S.A.S. is a flawed Theology, because it does not take into account the Carnal Christians. I have also said that ALL would be better served IF they changed their Theology to read:

ONCE SANCTIFIED ALWAYS SANCTIFIED

Honestly, I have been leaning towards that belief for some time. And it perfectly fits the lives of Paul, James and Jude, and the other Apostles (in my opinion). A Spirit filled believer, dining on the meat of God's Word, and having endured the many trials this world presents to them through the presence and strength of the Holy Spirit truly are so strong in their faith that they really would never consider leaving.

But that is not something God forced on them. It was their choice, and is our choice, and a result of the growing in Christ life.

It concerns me that you said you could never count on your will.........for you would always seek to fulfill the desires of the flesh....(not exact words). I, through the strength of the Holy Spirit, on pretty much a daily basis resist the temptations this world sends my way. Now some will say........not I, but Christ who lives within me....and that is true, but it is still I who has to follow through. The Holy Spirit warns me, counsels me, reveals to me a path out of the temptation....but I HAVE TO follow throug. He does not lead me kicking and screaming away from the pitfalls of this world. Paul spoke about doing what he would not do, and not doing what he would do....a daily struggle that he faced, just as all of us must face. He also said:

Romans 8:1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5) For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Again, getting long......but still so much more to say......but it will have to wait, God willing.

Next time, I will address the Matthew 10:29 verse you mention, and some answers to it.

Thank you for the effort you are putting forth to read all of this, and for your sincere love of Christ.

 

[p_rehbein]

Matthew 10:29......

I can see what you are saying........and why you would post this verse. However, as I have said in previous comments, this is still Jesus saying that God will never leave or forsake us.

I will say that the Calvinist Movement should probably use this verse in their arguments........ (I didn't ask if you were Calvinist, maybe I should have? )

In the Commentaries I read, they compare the sparrows to Job and what happened to him. God foreknew what would happen to Job, and even gave permission to satin to cause Job grave sufferings, but would not allow satin to take Jobs life. That goes back to the Scripture "whom He foreknew He predestined........." But this does not (in my opinion) mean either the sparrows, or we were created to be killed/lost to God. I can not in any way subscribe free will to sparrows, so not even gonna try that. However, we, as His creations, created in His (in Genesis Our Likeness) likeness........being triune creations do have free will. God already knows, and has known from the beginning who will accept and serve Him, and who will reject Him.

Those He knows will accept and serve Him, He as predestined to receive the strength, guidance, and counseling of the Holy Spirit to give them the power to "endure to the end" as Christ said. He certainly provides for, cares for, and protects His children. I will never doubt that. What I can not accept is that a all powerful, all knowing, all loving, all merciful God would create beings just so they can be slaughtered, and, human beings just so they can be damned to eternal hell. That idea goes against everything I believe about my God.

I will continue to read about this, and see how others (Commentaries) explain/examine verse 29. It must, however, be considered in context with the entire Chapter in my opinion.

Thanks for giving me some serious reading to do...............sigh........guess I'll sleep one day



God bless you and yours

 

[p_rehbein]

As I was reading/meditating, it occurred to me that we may well need a List of Scriptures we can all meditate on.

Matthew 10:29) Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.30) But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31) Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.

Joshua 24:15) And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.d 16) And the people answered and said, God forbid that we should forsake the LORD, to serve other gods;

Luke 22:42) Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. 43) And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. 44) And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

 

[p_rehbein]

Scriptures to Meditate on:

Luke 8:5) A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it. 6) And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture. 7) And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it. 8) And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. 9) And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be? 10) And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. 11) Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12) Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. 13) They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. 14) And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection. 15) But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.