Jesus and Paul -two different gospels?
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I believe the dichotomy of the Gospel unto Salvation, (Jesus death for sin debt and resurrection) and Jesus presenting Himself to the Nation Israel as the Meschiach Nagid (Messiah the King), is why we can be so confused on these issues.
IF, the Nation Israel had accepted their Messiah, Jesus would have ruled on His Throne, in Israel, right then. Gentiles would have been lost, and the message preached that The Kingdom is at Hand would have begun.
But it's impossible for us to grasp this BECAUSE ALL Scripture had to be fulfilled. And Scripture said the Messiah had to die for His people, and not just the Jews, but the Gentiles as well.
Nevertheless, Jesus had to give the the Nation the opportunity to accept Him.
IF, the Nation Israel had accepted their Messiah, Jesus would have ruled on His Throne, in Israel, right then. Gentiles would have been lost, and the message preached that The Kingdom is at Hand would have begun.
But it's impossible for us to grasp this BECAUSE ALL Scripture had to be fulfilled. And Scripture said the Messiah had to die for His people, and not just the Jews, but the Gentiles as well.
Nevertheless, Jesus had to give the the Nation the opportunity to accept Him.
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Many Jews did and they were never cut off. Only those who rebelled and rejected Messiah were cut off. The OT prophets described Jesus adequately enough that every Jew should have recognized Him then and there. It was pride that blinded them, not ignorance.
Isaiah 53
53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, [there is] no beauty that we should desire him.
53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were [our] faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
53:5 But he [was] wounded for our transgressions, [he was] bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace [was] upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither [was any] deceit in his mouth.
53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
53:12 Therefore will I divide him [a portion] with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Isaiah 53
53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, [there is] no beauty that we should desire him.
53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were [our] faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
53:5 But he [was] wounded for our transgressions, [he was] bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace [was] upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither [was any] deceit in his mouth.
53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
53:12 Therefore will I divide him [a portion] with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
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Good day, oyster67!
Here are just a couple of examples off the top of my head regarding the above:
"To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.
To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If a brother has an unbelieving wife and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. (I Cor.7:11-12)
These are obviously teachings in regards to those who are married, but it is an example of Paul not having anything specific word from the Lord regarding this issue.
Here are just a couple of examples off the top of my head regarding the above:
"To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.
To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If a brother has an unbelieving wife and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. (I Cor.7:11-12)
These are obviously teachings in regards to those who are married, but it is an example of Paul not having anything specific word from the Lord regarding this issue.
Jesus was ' preaching ' a different Good news than the one Paul preached . Jesus explained a couple of times to the disciples what was going to take place. Thats all . He was not openly preaching about it otherwise :
1 cor 2 8Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. So yes it lines up with the few times in some sense with the details of being crucified ect But this was literally telling them what would happen to him as they went forward .
1 cor 2 8Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. So yes it lines up with the few times in some sense with the details of being crucified ect But this was literally telling them what would happen to him as they went forward .
To recap . In luke 6.9 they are preaching ' the gospel) ( a good news ) But not the death ,burial and resurrection.
Paul preached the DBR for our sins .
These are 2 separate good news ( gospel) Instead of just believing what it says ,as usual were faced with 'certain ' theology ' being the lens in which we must reconcile this apparent dilemma.
I hope someone's tracking how many times this happens on here .I'm lost count how many times I've had to say " but that's not what it says "
Paul preached the DBR for our sins .
These are 2 separate good news ( gospel) Instead of just believing what it says ,as usual were faced with 'certain ' theology ' being the lens in which we must reconcile this apparent dilemma.
I hope someone's tracking how many times this happens on here .I'm lost count how many times I've had to say " but that's not what it says "
Luke wrote Acts.
The Bible doesn't explicitly state a lot of things. Do you know what it means to rightly divide the word of truth? Do you know how to read non-verbal messages, parse cultural significance, understand how the target audience effects Bible interpretation, and much much more? The Bible doesn't teach those things either.
This is about proper exegesis of scripture.
The Bible doesn't explicitly state a lot of things. Do you know what it means to rightly divide the word of truth? Do you know how to read non-verbal messages, parse cultural significance, understand how the target audience effects Bible interpretation, and much much more? The Bible doesn't teach those things either.
This is about proper exegesis of scripture.
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They were escorted into Abraham’s bosom by believing and obeying God‘s word. If Noah believed God concerning the flood, but did not build the ark, Noah would have been destroyed in the flood. Building the ark justified his faith. We do nothing to justify our faith because we are justified by the faith of Christ. His work justifies the believer.
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False gospel? Abraham’s bosom is eternal salvation?
Here’s an OT example.
Luke 1
5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
Why were they righteous? Because they were blameless in walking in the commandments and ordinances of the law.
Here’s an OT example.
Luke 1
5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
Why were they righteous? Because they were blameless in walking in the commandments and ordinances of the law.
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So be honest what was the content of Jesus' gospel? As you don't answer you just make very vague statements. Not very honest is it.
But the good thing is you won't be able to hide behind the vague threads/posts you make anymore as everyone now knows
This thread has really served its purpose now.. Have a good evening through faith.
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2 Timothy 4:3-4
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.
2 Peter 3:16
As he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
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