Jesus and religion

[Hearer]

Jesus said his Father's house is a house of prayer; and he called himself the Good Shepherd after Psalm 23 (the Good Shepherd psalm) in which we are blessed to be in the house of the Lord for our whole lives.

The House of the Lord, the house of prayer is maintained by servants of the Lord, i.e. servants are Ministers/Priests/Clergy.

Why then would Jesus be doing away with religion?

 

[AnandaHya]

??? why do you think Jesus did away with religion?

we are called all to be priest and maintain our bodies and lives as living temples and living sacrifices to God on High.

1 Corinthians 6:19
Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?

1 Peter 2:4-5
New King James Version (NKJV)
The Chosen Stone and His Chosen People


4 Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, 5 you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ

Romans 12

Living Sacrifices to God

1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.

 

[Strangelove]

(Jeremiah 33:22) As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured: so will I multiply the seed of David my servant, and the Levites that minister unto me.

Fulfilled in Christ and the invisible Church:

(John 7:42) Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?

(2 Timothy 2:8) Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

(Acts 13:22) And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.
(Acts 13:23) Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus

(Romans 1:3) Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
(Romans 1:4) And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
(Romans 1:5) By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

(Romans 4:13) For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
~
(Romans 4:16) Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
~
(Romans 4:18) Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

(Romans 9:8) That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

(Hebrews 7:11) If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

(1 Peter 2:9) But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

(1 Peter 2:5) Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

(Revelation 12:17) And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[loveschild]

Jesus said his Father's house is a house of prayer; and he called himself the Good Shepherd after Psalm 23 (the Good Shepherd psalm) in which we are blessed to be in the house of the Lord for our whole lives.

The House of the Lord, the house of prayer is maintained by servants of the Lord, i.e. servants are Ministers/Priests/Clergy.

Why then would Jesus be doing away with religion?

Galatians 4:9
Now, however, that you have come to be acquainted with and understand and know [the true] God, or rather to be understood and known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and beggarly and worthless elementary things [ of all religions before Christ came], whose slaves you once more want to become?
Galatians 4:8-10 (in Context) Galatians 4 (Whole

1. 2 Timothy 3:5
   For [although] they hold a form of piety (true religion), they deny and reject and are strangers to the power of it [their conduct belies the genuineness of their profession]. Avoid [all] such people [turn away from them].
   2 Timothy 3:4-6 (in Context) 2 Timothy 3 (Whole Chapter)
2. James 1:27
   External religious worship [ religion as it is expressed in outward acts] that is pure and unblemished in the sight of God the Father is this: to visit and help and care for the orphans and widows in their affliction and need, and to keep oneself unspotted and uncontaminated from the world.
   James 1:26-27 (in Context) James 1 (Whole Chapter)

Mark 2:16
And the scribes [belonging to the party] of the Pharisees, when they saw that He was eating with [those definitely known to be especially wicked] sinners and tax collectors, said to His disciples, Why does He eat and drink with tax collectors and [notorious] sinners?

1. Luke 18:11
   The Pharisee took his stand ostentatiously and began to pray thus before and with himself: God, I thank You that I am not like the rest of men--extortioners (robbers), swindlers [unrighteous in heart and life], adulterers--or even like this tax collector here.
   Luke 18:10-12 (in Context) Luke 18 (Whole Chapter)

Evil spirit of religion is not the same as the worship and surrender to God almighty.

 

[Hearer]

jesus sent his Holy Spirit on a visible gathering of people including the early church made up of Mary and the Apostles and others who were filled with power to go out on mission. They were not some set of isolated individuals who were each separately a "temple". Sure their bodies are temples to be looked after and treated spiritually but the church is a visible church of believers who gather.

 

[Strangelove]

jesus sent his Holy Spirit on a visible gathering of people including the early church made up of Mary and the Apostles and others who were filled with power to go out on mission. They were not some set of isolated individuals who were each separately a "temple". Sure their bodies are temples to be looked after and treated spiritually but the church is a visible church of believers who gather.

You would never know Mary and the Apostles were Christians to look at them. They wore no priestly robes and didnt build up huge pompous temples trying to recreate temple worship like the EOC and RCC do.

In this way they were invisible priests of an invisivle spiritual kingdom. Just like all Christians are. A Holy Royal priesthood.

But oooohhhhh we want the bells and whistles and incence coz it just looks and feels so good!!

Pharisee.
Temple cult.
Follower of mans tradition.
Pomp and ceremony to be seen of men.
HYPOCRITE.

Huh?......serpents eating the cross,,,,wass all that about then?

(Matthew 6:1) Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

(Matthew 6:2) Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

(Matthew 6:3) But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

(Matthew 6:4) That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

(Matthew 6:5) And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

(Matthew 6:6) But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

(Matthew 6:7) But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

(Matthew 6:8) Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.


(Matthew 20:25) But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.

(Matthew 20:26) But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;

(Matthew 20:27) And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:

(Matthew 20:28) Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

SERVANT???

Friends of the world.

(James 4:4) Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

 

[Hearer]

the RCC has a solid depository of sound scriptural understanding. As for not loving the world, it is written that the sinners we should not associate with are those inside the church. The sinners outside the church cannot be avoided.

Did Jesus reject the incense and the ceremony to the Lamb in the book of Revelation?

 

[Cobus]

Jas_1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

 

[Strangelove]

the RCC has a solid depository of sound scriptural understanding.

It has a whole bunch of traditions that nullify Gods Word.

As for not loving the world, it is written that the sinners we should not associate with are those inside the church. The sinners outside the church cannot be avoided.

So...its ok to be friends with the world after all?

(James 4:4) Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

See what I mean about traditions nullifying Gods Word!?

Did Jesus reject the incense and the ceremony to the Lamb in the book of Revelation?

(Revelation 8:3) And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
(Revelation 8:4) And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

The mentioning of incense is obviously emblematic, the incense symbollically representing the prayers of the saints.

Kinda like:

(Psalms 141:2) Let my prayer be set forth before thee as incense; and the lifting up of my hands as the evening sacrifice.

Christians dont need to use real incense. Otherwise Jesus or the Apostles woulda mentioned something.

 

[Hearer]

It has a whole bunch of traditions that nullify Gods Word.



So...its ok to be friends with the world after all?

(James 4:4) Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

See what I mean about traditions nullifying Gods Word!?



(Revelation 8:3) And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
(Revelation 8:4) And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

The mentioning of incense is obviously emblematic, the incense symbollically representing the prayers of the saints.

Kinda like:

(Psalms 141:2) Let my prayer be set forth before thee as incense; and the lifting up of my hands as the evening sacrifice.

Christians dont need to use real incense. Otherwise Jesus or the Apostles woulda mentioned something.

Your objection to the world is unscriptural see 1 cor 5 9-10

1 Corinthians 5:9-10

9 I have written to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world.

Revelation is atype of reverential worship. Why are protestants so literalistic about what they choose out of predjudice but reject proper literal initerpretations when it does not suit their predjudices?

If incense itself in worhip was objectected to by God then Revelation would say so and not allow it as a type of worship.

 

[Strangelove]

Your objection to the world is unscriptural see 1 cor 5 9-10

1 Corinthians 5:9-10

9 I have written to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world.

Lol! This is simply a statement about the IMMENSE depravity of the world we live in. He's saying its impossible not to cross paths with worldly people, you would have to fly off the Earth to do that!

Having to mix with worldly people is unavoidable but making pacts and being a FRIEND of the world, which the RCC most definately is, is something completely different.

Revelation is atype of reverential worship.

Nonsense. Its a hugely symbolic book of visions given to John. We have PLENTY of doctrine on how we should worship and nowhere is incense required or encouraged.

If incense itself in worhip was objectected to by God then Revelation would say so and not allow it as a type of worship.

It wasnt a type of worship. It was a symbolic testimony by John of a vision He was given.

 

[Hearer]

Lol! This is simply a statement about the IMMENSE depravity of the world we live in. He's saying its impossible not to cross paths with worldly people, you would have to fly off the Earth to do that!

Having to mix with worldly people is unavoidable but making pacts and being a FRIEND of the world, which the RCC most definately is, is something completely different.



Nonsense. Its a hugely symbolic book of visions given to John. We have PLENTY of doctrine on how we should worship and nowhere is incense required or encouraged.



It wasnt a type of worship. It was a symbolic testimony by John of a vision He was given.

oh well I am not going to squable. Maybe debate but not squable. Of course though the scriptures including parables and apocalyptic writings contain "types" (patterns) of how the church and the faithful should organize). Even the good samaritan story supports a properly organized single unified church after the type of an hospitable inn where the sick are cared for until Christ's return.

 

[loveschild]

jesus sent his Holy Spirit on a visible gathering of people including the early church made up of Mary and the Apostles and others who were filled with power to go out on mission. They were not some set of isolated individuals who were each separately a "temple". Sure their bodies are temples to be looked after and treated spiritually but the church is a visible church of believers who gather.

Well sure I know Christan's are the church. One person is a church I know. I never seen Mary mentioned when the Holy Spirit was firing down on them with tongues an all. I didn't see Mary and the rest of Jesus' family mentioned in this. I did see them mentioned as pretty much Jesus ignored the fact that they wanted to come in and visit him, and he told every one his family were the ones there following him. Which it pretty much made clear his own family wasn't doing.

 

[Hearer]

if mary was at the cross and was given to John as his mother why would she not be part of the earliest gathering of the church?

as for Mary being concerned about Jesus well-being (and his health) was she not as his mother entitled to the same treatment Peter was when Peter denied Jesus three times. Jesus would not disown the mother who gave him his flesh and his humanity.

Of course Mary's special role was both one of joy and one of deep sorrow (a pierced soul). and she would suffer many things because of the way Jesus conducted his ministry including the laying down of his life. She was after all a human being and his mother. Frail and subject to misunderstanding but always willing.

Luke 2:34-35

34 Then Simeon blessed them and said to Mary, his mother: This child is destined to cause the falling and rising of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be spoken against, 35 so that the thoughts of many hearts will be revealed. And a sword will pierce your own soul too.

 

[loveschild]

if mary was at the cross and was given to John as his mother why would she not be part of the earliest gathering of the church?


I think Mary was a very special person. She bore our Lord. She always to be respected. But there is scripture which I am sure you have read that she is not to be worshiped.

as for Mary being concerned about Jesus well-being (and his health) was she not as his mother entitled to the same treatment Peter was when Peter denied Jesus three times. Jesus would not disown the mother who gave him his flesh and his humanity.

Jesus loved his mother. But he did not place her as God. You also have to remember what was done by the Holy Spirit to Mary was a act of God not a act of Mary. Mary is to show us that all she had to do was say yes Lord. This is to show us all we have to do is say yes Lord and the Lord will come live in us. I think what were talking about here is that Mary and lots of others were still holding onto Jewish customs and not following Jesus. Thank God for grace that we have all had grace like Peter.

Of course Mary's special role was both one of joy and one of deep sorrow (a pierced soul). and she would suffer many things because of the way Jesus conducted his ministry including the laying down of his life. She was after all a human being and his mother. Frail and subject to misunderstanding but always willing.

She went through much. She will always be called blessed. But we are to keep our eyes on Jesus not her.

Luke 2:34-35

34 Then Simeon blessed them and said to Mary, his mother: This child is destined to cause the falling and rising of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be spoken against, 35 so that the thoughts of many hearts will be revealed. And a sword will pierce your own soul too.

Focus on the big letters not on Mary.

 

[Hearer]

Focus on the big letters not on Mary.

and what if mary actually does give graces now? Would you believe if she smiled at you too for loving her son?

 

[loveschild]

and what if mary actually does give graces now? Would you believe if she smiled at you too for loving her son?

1. Psalm 40:4
   Blessed (happy, fortunate, to be envied) is the man who makes the Lord his refuge and trust, and turns not to the proud or to followers of false gods.
   Psalm 40:3-5 (in Context) Psalm 40 (Whole Chapter)

1. 2 Kings 17:15
   They despised and rejected His statutes and His covenant which He made with their fathers and His warnings to them, and they followed vanity (false gods--falsehood, emptiness, and futility) and [they themselves and their prayers] became false (empty and futile). They went after the heathen round about them, of whom the Lord had charged them that they should not do as they did.
   2 Kings 17:14-16 (in Context) 2 Kings 17 (Whole Chapter)
2. Leviticus 19:4
   Do not turn to idols and things of nought or make for yourselves molten gods. I the Lord am your God.
   Leviticus 19:3-5 (in Context) Leviticus 19 (Whole Chapter)

1. Deuteronomy 4:28
   There you will serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see nor hear nor eat nor smell.
   Deuteronomy 4:27-29 (in Context) Deuteronomy 4 (Whole Chapter)
2. Deuteronomy 5:7
   You shall have no other gods before Me or besides Me.
   Deuteronomy 5:6-8 (in Context) Deuteronomy 5 (Whole Chapter)
3. Deuteronomy 6:14
   You shall not go after other gods, any of the gods of the peoples who are round about you;
   Deuteronomy 6:13-15 (in Context) Deuteronomy 6 (Whole Chapter)
4. Deuteronomy 6:25
   And it will be accounted as righteousness (conformity to God's will in word, thought, and action) for us if we are watchful to do all this commandment before the Lord our God, as He has commanded us.
   Deuteronomy 6:24-25 (in Context) Deuteronomy 6 (Whole Chapter)
5. Deuteronomy 7:4
   For they will turn away your sons from following Me, that they may serve other gods; so will the anger of the Lord be kindled against you and He will destroy you quickly.
   Deuteronomy 7:3-5 (in Context) Deuteronomy 7 (Whole Chapter)
6. Deuteronomy 7:16
   And you shall consume all the peoples whom the Lord your God will give over to you; your eye shall not pity them, neither shall you serve their gods, for that would be a snare to you.
   Deuteronomy 7:15-17 (in Context) Deuteronomy 7 (Whole Chapter)
7. Deuteronomy 7:25
   The graven images of their gods you shall burn with fire. You shall not desire the silver or gold that is on them, nor take it for yourselves, lest you be ensnared by it, for it is an abomination to the Lord your God.
   Deuteronomy 7:24-26 (in Context) Deuteronomy 7 (Whole Chapter)
8. Deuteronomy 8:19
   And if you forget the Lord your God and walk after other gods and serve them and worship them, I testify against you this day that you shall surely perish.
   Deuteronomy 8:18-20 (in Context) Deuteronomy 8 (Whole Chapter)
9. Deuteronomy 10:17
   For the Lord your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, the terrible God, Who is not partial and takes no bribe.
   Deuteronomy 10:16-18 (in Context) Deuteronomy 10 (Whole Chapter)
10. Deuteronomy 11:16
    Take heed to yourselves, lest your [minds and] hearts be deceived and you turn aside and serve other gods and worship them,
    Deuteronomy 11:15-17 (in Context) Deuteronomy 11 (Whole Chapter)
11. Deuteronomy 11:28
    And the curse if you will not obey the commandments of the Lord your God, but turn aside from the way which I command you this day to go after other gods, which you have not known.
    Deuteronomy 11:27-29 (in Context) Deuteronomy 11 (Whole Chapter)

I would warn anyone who still wants to worship Mary that this is witch craft. And remind them that Satan comes as a angle of light pretending to be Mary all over the world. I would think she would cry over this if God allowed her to see what was happening. She is not God.

 

[Hearer]

1. Psalm 40:4
   Blessed (happy, fortunate, to be envied) is the man who makes the Lord his refuge and trust, and turns not to the proud or to followers of false gods.
   Psalm 40:3-5 (in Context) Psalm 40 (Whole Chapter)

1. 2 Kings 17:15
   They despised and rejected His statutes and His covenant which He made with their fathers and His warnings to them, and they followed vanity (false gods--falsehood, emptiness, and futility) and [they themselves and their prayers] became false (empty and futile). They went after the heathen round about them, of whom the Lord had charged them that they should not do as they did.
   2 Kings 17:14-16 (in Context) 2 Kings 17 (Whole Chapter)
2. Leviticus 19:4
   Do not turn to idols and things of nought or make for yourselves molten gods. I the Lord am your God.
   Leviticus 19:3-5 (in Context) Leviticus 19 (Whole Chapter)

1. Deuteronomy 4:28
   There you will serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see nor hear nor eat nor smell.
   Deuteronomy 4:27-29 (in Context) Deuteronomy 4 (Whole Chapter)
2. Deuteronomy 5:7
   You shall have no other gods before Me or besides Me.
   Deuteronomy 5:6-8 (in Context) Deuteronomy 5 (Whole Chapter)
3. Deuteronomy 6:14
   You shall not go after other gods, any of the gods of the peoples who are round about you;
   Deuteronomy 6:13-15 (in Context) Deuteronomy 6 (Whole Chapter)
4. Deuteronomy 6:25
   And it will be accounted as righteousness (conformity to God's will in word, thought, and action) for us if we are watchful to do all this commandment before the Lord our God, as He has commanded us.
   Deuteronomy 6:24-25 (in Context) Deuteronomy 6 (Whole Chapter)
5. Deuteronomy 7:4
   For they will turn away your sons from following Me, that they may serve other gods; so will the anger of the Lord be kindled against you and He will destroy you quickly.
   Deuteronomy 7:3-5 (in Context) Deuteronomy 7 (Whole Chapter)
6. Deuteronomy 7:16
   And you shall consume all the peoples whom the Lord your God will give over to you; your eye shall not pity them, neither shall you serve their gods, for that would be a snare to you.
   Deuteronomy 7:15-17 (in Context) Deuteronomy 7 (Whole Chapter)
7. Deuteronomy 7:25
   The graven images of their gods you shall burn with fire. You shall not desire the silver or gold that is on them, nor take it for yourselves, lest you be ensnared by it, for it is an abomination to the Lord your God.
   Deuteronomy 7:24-26 (in Context) Deuteronomy 7 (Whole Chapter)
8. Deuteronomy 8:19
   And if you forget the Lord your God and walk after other gods and serve them and worship them, I testify against you this day that you shall surely perish.
   Deuteronomy 8:18-20 (in Context) Deuteronomy 8 (Whole Chapter)
9. Deuteronomy 10:17
   For the Lord your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, the terrible God, Who is not partial and takes no bribe.
   Deuteronomy 10:16-18 (in Context) Deuteronomy 10 (Whole Chapter)
10. Deuteronomy 11:16
    Take heed to yourselves, lest your [minds and] hearts be deceived and you turn aside and serve other gods and worship them,
    Deuteronomy 11:15-17 (in Context) Deuteronomy 11 (Whole Chapter)
11. Deuteronomy 11:28
    And the curse if you will not obey the commandments of the Lord your God, but turn aside from the way which I command you this day to go after other gods, which you have not known.
    Deuteronomy 11:27-29 (in Context) Deuteronomy 11 (Whole Chapter)

I would warn anyone who still wants to worship Mary that this is witch craft. And remind them that Satan comes as a angle of light pretending to be Mary all over the world. I would think she would cry over this if God allowed her to see what was happening. She is not God.

God gives graces today through Mary.

Luke 1:48
for he has been mindful of the humble state of his servant. From now on all generations will call me blessed...

 

[loveschild]

God gives graces today through Mary.

Luke 1:48
for he has been mindful of the humble state of his servant. From now on all generations will call me blessed...

I'm blessed too but you don't worship me either. Jesus lives in me and you don't worship me. You have been taught very wrong. You are being given chance now to repent from these wrong teachings which place a mere human as God.

 

[Hearer]

I'm blessed too but you don't worship me either. Jesus lives in me and you don't worship me. You have been taught very wrong. You are being given chance now to repent from these wrong teachings which place a mere human as God.

are you humble like mary who gave jesus his humanity but remained humble? besides, no one worships mary. But everyone regards her as blessed in a way no one else could be. Mostly because she is humble, to this day.