Jesus Came To Fulfill Not To Destroy

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justbyfaith

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Sep 16, 2021
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Which commandments..... ???

It becomes clear with a bit of study.

Paul said not to make the law void, Jesus said to keep the law, James said to obey and John in Revelation said that the saved would keep the commandments... The commandments, law is important but there are places were we are told that it is all about faith and the law is nailed to the cross. Does the bible contradict itself? NO

The key is to understand which laws are being referred to.

Remember that a law was in place before sin, A law that revealed sin and what defined sin. No law = no sin.

When sin came into the picture God started to reveal the plan of salvation with ceremonies and laws that pointed to the salvation that Jesus would bring.

At the cross these laws (which were a teacher and a shadow) were removed because we have the real deal in Jesus.

Many of the sabbaths kept were part of the ceremonial laws that pointed to Jesus given after sin. The weekly Sabbath was established before sin.

We are not under the law (Romans 6:14), are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19), and are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6) as concerning condemnation.

While as concerning obedience, we are under the law to Christ (1 Corinthians 9:22);

The law is written on the hearts and minds of every New Covenant believer in Christ (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5; 1 John 2:3-6).

This is not referring to only certain aspects of the law; it is referring to the whole law.

The contradiction is not reconciled in that there are different laws; for there is one law that applies to all.

The contradiction is reconciled in that there is no condemnation any more because of the law for those who believe in Christ; while the fact that we are born again, and the love of the Lord is shed abroad in our hearts, means that we will be obedient to the spirit of what is written in the law.

The law is nailed to the Cross as concerning condemnation for the believer; while it is also written on the heart and mind of the New Covenant believer.

As concerning obedience, the law is still in effect.

As concerning condemnation, it is done away with.

Because when we are born again (and thus become inclined towards obedience), we are forgiven of every sin that we ever have or ever will commit.
 
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Oblio

Guest
Yeah, I know. I long for the time when we see Him and become like Him. No more death, mourning, crying, or pain! And forget about this life.
 

justbyfaith

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When you read about the law having a shadow of good things to come, and the law that was our school master to bring us unto Christ, it was not referring to God’s holy commandments but the animal sacrifice law.

Daniel the prophet foretold the doing away of this law. (Dan 9:26-27) And after threescore and two weeks shall Mes-si’-ah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. Now we know that Jesus is the Mes-si’-ah, and cut off means to be killed, and Jesus didn’t die for himself, but for the sins of the people. (v.27) “And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.” When Jesus died on the cross he caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease.

This signified the end of the law of animal sacrifice, not Gods Royal law.

Paul explained this in; (Hebrews 10: (v.1) For the law (what law, the law of animal sacrifice?) having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. (v.9) Then said he, (Jesus) Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first that he may establish the second. (v.10) By which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 but this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 from henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

When Jesus died on the cross that was the end of the first covenant, which consisted of the blood of animals and the keeping of God’s commandments. And his death also brought in the second covenant, which consist of the blood of Jesus and the keeping of God’s commandments. (v.18) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. In other words, no more animals are going to die for your sins. (v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.

Now do we understand what’s being said here? If you sin willfully after you have knowledge of what the truth is, no more animals are going to die for you. (v.27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Now if you are being deceived into believing that once you are under God’s grace you no longer have to keep his commandments, all you have to look forward to is the day of judgement and the lake of fire (fiery indignation).
The law that is spoken of by Paul is not only the law of animal sacrifices. It is referring to the whole law; including the ten commandments.
 

justbyfaith

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(v.12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Why in the world would a Christian want to do away with something that God said is holy.
Because it brings condemnation.

We do not do away with it as concerning obedience, btw.

We do away with it as concerning condemnation.

Because when we come to Christ and are born again, we are forgiven of every sin that we ever have or ever will commit.
 

justbyfaith

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Let's go to the Book of I Timothy chapter one and see if Paul kills the Lords commandments. Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: (I Timothy 1:5)

What does he mean the end of the commandment is charity? What is charity? It means love fore mankind correct? Now take a look at these verses in the Book of Romans.

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. (Romans 13:8-10)

Take heed to what Paul says, "love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love (which is charity) is the fulfilling of the law. Paul says, "If you LOVE your neighbor you will not, commit adultery, kill, steal, bear false witness nor covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Once again Paul is quoting from the books Moses! As a matter of fact Paul was quoting the Lord God, remember the Lord gave the Laws to Moses.

Take a look. Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's. (Exodus 20:13-17)

What do we see here? We see Paul is inline with the rest of the Bible. He is not trying to do away with the Lords commandments. It is the false prophets that do not read the entire book from Genesis to Revelation! They are trying to do away with the Lord's laws. Paul was well aware that the law was to be kept. This include the Sabbath day on the seventh day of the week!
That is merely one side of the coin.

On the other side of the coin, we have Paul teaching us that we are not under the law (Romans 6:14), are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19), and are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6) as concerning condemnation.

As concerning obedience, on the other hand, we are under the law to Christ (1 Corinthians 9:21);

The law is written on the heart and mind of the New Covenant believer (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5; 1 John 2:3-6).
 

justbyfaith

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Because it brings condemnation.

We do not do away with it as concerning obedience, btw.

We do away with it as concerning condemnation.

Because when we come to Christ and are born again, we are forgiven of every sin that we ever have or ever will commit.
Thus our relationship to the law is changed. It no longer calls us out or condemns us as sinners before the eyes of the Father; who looks down at us from heaven and sees the blood and imputed righteousness of His Son.

Before the eyes of the Holy Ghost, whose job it is to sanctify and to convict of sin and righteousness and judgment, our sin is very evident; for He is working to get us to confess our sins in order that we might be forgiven (as concerning koinoneia / fellowship) and cleansed from all unrighteousness.

So, the Holy Ghost isn't blind to our sins.

However, because of justification before God, the Father sees us as clean and without fault before Him because we are forgiven of every sin through the blood of Jesus Christ.
 

TMS

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As concerning obedience, the law is still in effect.
Do we still need to practice Animal sacrifices?
Do we need to practice the laws involved around the sanctuary?

The condemnation for sin (every sin) is taken by Christ at the cross which mean we are free from the laws condemnation but we do not make void the law by grace we allow Christ to impart it in us by faith.

There is a difference in the laws

James 2:12 will be judged by the law
Rom 7:14,19 Spiritual,
Ps 111:7,8 Luke 16:17, Matt 5:18 Eternal, Unchangeable
1 John 3:4 points out sin,
Ps 19:7,9,10 perfect, true
Ecc 12:13 The whole duty of man
James 2:10-12 Judges all


Eph 2:15 Ended at the cross
Gal 3:19 Added because of Sin
Gal 5:1 Col 2:14, Yoke of bondage, against us and contrary to us
Col 2:14-16, Judges no one
Heb 7:16 Carnal, fleshly
Heb 7:12 temporary,
Col 2:14 Not good
 

TMS

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Thus our relationship to the law is changed. It no longer calls us out or condemns us as sinners before the eyes of the Father; who looks down at us from heaven and sees the blood and imputed righteousness of His Son.

Before the eyes of the Holy Ghost, whose job it is to sanctify and to convict of sin and righteousness and judgment, our sin is very evident; for He is working to get us to confess our sins in order that we might be forgiven (as concerning koinoneia / fellowship) and cleansed from all unrighteousness.

So, the Holy Ghost isn't blind to our sins.

However, because of justification before God, the Father sees us as clean and without fault before Him because we are forgiven of every sin through the blood of Jesus Christ.
Justification = imputed righteousness of Christ = i totally agree

Imparted righteousness of Jesus is Jesus living the new life in us. = Sanctification. = The law fulfilled in us by faith, = Jesus writing them on our hearts and minds.
 
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Oblio

Guest
No need to sacrifice animals...unless you're hungry!
 
O

Oblio

Guest
I wonder how long until they rebuild the temple in Jerusalem...if they did that the way things are now...Jerusalem would not be a good place to be! I think I'll see that happen...I could be wrong.
 
O

Oblio

Guest
For those who are open to it...Shabbat Shalom!
 

Ahwatukee

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Mar 12, 2015
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In (Matthew 5:17), Jesus made the statement Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. He came not to destroy the law, or the prophets, but to fulfill. Based on that statement many ministers have taught their congregation that the arrival of Jesus did away with the Old Testament along with its laws, statutes and Judgements. They even make the statement, to their congregation, that they are no longer under the Old Testament, but now operate under the New. So you have people believing that the Old Testament is no longer relevant today. One needs only to further examine the scriptures to find out, how incorrect that position is.

In (Matthew 5:18), Jesus Himself states For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Now you will find in a concordance that jot and tittle mean letter. Here Jesus clearly states that not one letter of the law will be changed as long as heaven and earth exist. We know that the law came from the Old Testament so based solely on (Matthew 5:18), it nor the Old Testament can not be done away with.

There is clearly a discrepancy between what is being taught and what the scriptures say. The fact, that Jesus came to fulfill is known, because that is what is stated in (Matthew 5:17). But one needs to find out what He was to fulfill, since that is the condition put forth in (Matthew 5:18), when He said no letter would pass from the law until all is fulfilled. You will see the information needed to answer this will be found in the Old Testament. This itself serves as further proof as to how erroneous the position of doing away with the Old Testament is. Let's focus on what Jesus was referring to when He said He came not to destroy the law, but to fulfill and His position on the commandments.

The Gospel of Luke, will reveal what Jesus meant when He said in (Matthew 5:17 & 18), that He came to fulfill and no letter would pass from the law until all is fulfilled. Looking at Luke chapter 24:14-44, you will find that , this is when Jesus had been crucified and Peter and others were at the grave site and they were contemplating the events that had occurred. Verse 16, tells you that Jesus had come among them but they did not know Him. In verse 17, Jesus asks them what were they discussing,

(17) And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?

In verse 19 and 20, they explained to Jesus what had taken place, still not recognizing Him. Verse 21, tells why they were sad, they had expected Jesus to restore Israel. (Israel as a nation , had a history of being conquered by other nations. They had been split into two kingdoms and the northern kingdom had already been taken into captivity prior to this time. All that remained was Judah, and now it had been taken over by Rome.) Now this was the 3rd day since Jesus crucifixion and they were in question because to them nothing had changed. Israel still remained in its same state. Note what Jesus says to them in verse 25:

(25) Then he said unto them, O fool, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

Now the prophets had spoke of many things that Jesus was to do when He came. However they were just focused on the redemption of Israel. That is why Jesus told them in verse 25 that they were not bringing into remembrance all the things that were spoken of Him by the prophets. He reminded them in verse 26 that He had to suffer first and then enter into glory. He then in verse 27 went over all that the scriptures had to say concerning Himself. Following is verse 27,

(27) And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, He expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning Himself.

The following verse explains what Jesus meant in (Matthew 5:17) where He said He came not to destroy the law but to fulfill. Jesus says in (Luke 24:44) And He said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which are written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Here Jesus makes it clear that all things written about Him in the Old Testament must be fulfilled. Knowing that all things must be fulfilled by Jesus, as long as heaven and earth is still here, tells us that the law (Commandments) are still here as well and must be kept.
Greetings GroTan,

Well then, you and the rest of us have already failed at the Law, which would mean that one tittle has already passed by human beings. The word of God also says the following:

"Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is for their salvation. For I testify about them that they are zealous for God, but not on the basis of knowledge. Because they were ignorant of God’s righteousness and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. For Christ is the end of the law, to bring righteousness to everyone who believes.

"In the passage above He says, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings You did not desire, nor did You delight in them” (although they are offered according to the law). Then He adds, “Here I am, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first (covenant) to establish the second. And by that will, we have been sanctified through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

We all fail at the fulfilling the Law, but Jesus fulfilled it perfectly on our behalf. And those who believe have been credited with the righteousness of Christ, including the fulfillment of the Law.
 

TMS

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Mar 21, 2015
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We all fail at the fulfilling the Law, but Jesus fulfilled it perfectly on our behalf. And those who believe have been credited with the righteousness of Christ, including the fulfillment of the Law.
True .. the law is fulfilled for us and by grace through faith we can be perfect.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
 

justbyfaith

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Sep 16, 2021
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Do we still need to practice Animal sacrifices?
Do we need to practice the laws involved around the sanctuary?

The condemnation for sin (every sin) is taken by Christ at the cross which mean we are free from the laws condemnation but we do not make void the law by grace we allow Christ to impart it in us by faith.

There is a difference in the laws

James 2:12 will be judged by the law
Rom 7:14,19 Spiritual,
Ps 111:7,8 Luke 16:17, Matt 5:18 Eternal, Unchangeable
1 John 3:4 points out sin,
Ps 19:7,9,10 perfect, true
Ecc 12:13 The whole duty of man
James 2:10-12 Judges all


Eph 2:15 Ended at the cross
Gal 3:19 Added because of Sin
Gal 5:1 Col 2:14, Yoke of bondage, against us and contrary to us
Col 2:14-16, Judges no one
Heb 7:16 Carnal, fleshly
Heb 7:12 temporary,
Col 2:14 Not good
Animal sacrifices are indeed still in effect; however, they have been fulfilled in the Cross of Christ.
 
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Thats true, we not under the law, but which is it that we are not under? Let's read with understanding (Gal. 3:1, 13, 16-17, 19, 24) (v.1) O FOOLISH Ga-la’-tians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? (v.13) Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, CURSED IS EVERYONE THAT HANGETH ON A TREE: What law is this talking about? Let the bible speak for itself.

(v.16) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of One, AND TO THY SEED, which is Christ. (v.17) And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Now pay attention, the law that is being spoken of here came four hundred and thirty years after this covenant. But God’s holy commandments have been around forever even before man was created. Remember that Satan was kicked out of heaven because iniquity (sin) was found in him. And what is sin? The transgression of the law (commandments). Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts. (1John 3:4)

(v.19) Wherefore then serveth the law? A question is being asked here. Then why should we serve this law? It was added because of transgression, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; the law that we are talking about here was added because of sin. But we now know that sin is the transgression of the law.

How do you add a law if sin is the transgression of the law? Because there are two sets of laws, you have God’s holy commandments which abided forever, and you had the animal sacrificial law which was added because of sin, but it was only good until the seed should come to whom the promise was made, and that seed was Jesus.

(v.24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. This animal sacrificial law was only a schoolmaster.

And this schoolmaster taught you that when you sinned in ignorance blood had to be shed (an animal sacrificed). But Christ being the ultimate sacrifice shed his precious blood once and for all, and by doing this putting an end to the animal sacrificial law. Paul says in Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. So when you quoted all the places in the Bible that do away with this animal sacrificial law, not understanding that Paul talks about two sets of law. The Royal law (Ten Commandments) and the animal sacrificial law sometimes in the same verse you bring destruction to yourselves.
Exactly. "Not under the law" refers to the "curse of the law" and also the "Mosaic Law" of ceremonies and sacrifices. Only a fool will argue "not under the law" means Christians can break the law with impunity, claiming that "God doesn't want us to break it, but He won't bar us from entering heaven if we break it".

These spiritually growth-stunted fools do not understand that law-keeping/law-breaking is merely the outward evidence of whether or not there is an inward enthronement of Jesus on the heart.
 
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Animal sacrifices are indeed still in effect; however, they have been fulfilled in the Cross of Christ.
That's a curious statement. How do you arrive at a conclusion that animal sacrifices are still "in effect"? Do you mean they are still required of God? If so, by whom?
 
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Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

:ROFL:

Galatians 3:11-12
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.​
2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.

Antinomianists have been deceived by Satan into believing that they may by dead faith obtain that which can only be obtained by living faith: eternal life.
 
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I saw where you contradict scripture with your silly philosophy.

Anyone who takes the time to read the actual scripture will see you are wrong. Gross Conceptual Error.

You desperately need a Christian to show you what actual Christianity is.
It's not wise to refer to Biblical teaching as "silly philosophy". I would suggest you ask God to deliver you from your carnal thinking and open your heart to Biblical understanding. Ask God to put love for Him and others in your heart each day, and your rebellion against the Ten Commandments will be turned into delight.

"I delight to do Thy will, O my God; yea, Thy law is within my heart." --- Psalms 40:8 KJV​
"...His commandments are not grievous." --- 1 John 5:3 KJV​
"For I delight in the law of God after the inward man." --- Romans 7:22 KJV​
 

Laura798

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Jun 6, 2020
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I saw where you contradict scripture with your silly philosophy.

Anyone who takes the time to read the actual scripture will see you are wrong. Gross Conceptual Error.

You desperately need a Christian to show you what actual Christianity is.
Grandpa,

You seem to not understand what is being said here about the importance of obedience to Christ's commands. No one that I can see believes in salvation by works [of the Law] but we are still called to obey the moral law--that is the 10 Commandments along with Christ's teachings. In fact He added a new one, "Love one another." It's obvious since you don't believe Christ's own words when He says we are to obey, as your comments are not what one would consider loving. We are able to obey by the miracle working power of the Holy Spirit--and as we live a life of continual fellowship and surrender to His will--we do not believe it is of our own will power--but we still have to 'work out our Salvatin with fear and trembling' as the good book says.

What do you make of these verses?

"“If you love me, you will keep my commandments."--John 14:15

" 2By this we know that we love the children of God: when we love God and keep His commandments. 3For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome,…"--1 John 2:3

""7 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. 8 Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him 10 and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek."--Hebrews 5:7-10"
 
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Your argument is with Paul and Holy Scripture.

Surely you didn't misunderstand the simple scriptures that were posted?
You love to cite Paul's verses where he condemns lawkeeping, but there are plenty of verses where he promotes it. You seem altogether disinterested in Scriptural harmony, preferring to cling to the former and disregard the latter, and while we are not to judge another's motives, I think the reason you do so is pretty evident.

Do you think Paul is schizophrenic?
Do you think he lacks self awareness enough to see he's speaking out of both sides of his mouth?
Do you think he suffers from cognitive dissonance?

Look, if he's not crazy, oblivious, or confused, the only way to harmonize it all is to understand that his condemnation of it has to do with attempting to keep the law as a means of obtaining salvation.